Round Shields...(Nerf thread)

[Noble Crassius]

And then every axe in the game would 1-hit the top tier shields like they do with any non-huscarl shield.

What would be the point of shields again?

The other arguments you put up:
*blah blah blah cut for shortness*

I'm not suggesting to nerf it into the ground, just to a minor reduction. I brought up the other argument cuz in each case the whines prevailed so it should in this case too. 

I disagree with this topic WHOLE FREAKIN HEARTEDLY, I was a polearm user forpre-patch and went to shield post patch. Shielder have it tough, they may not have to manually block but they have to foot work alot and have to time their strikes, pretty well in order to kill anything. Their animation is a shit ton slower then any other animation, and it annoyingly whiffs a lot more then that, because of the animation. Shielders can't face hug and they always have to stay in the thin line of distance for any killing ability. This is why i find this topic pointless and needing this input to end this argument.

Sorry to say but you just might be a sucky shielder. We have the easiest play style right-click face-hug up-attack. 90% of the player base falls to this. I'm a shielder and I find our play style the easiest one to maintain I get so bored I take risks on purpose just to see if I CAN die. I'm not talking about attack related issues I finally think 1hands are on par with 2h/polearms in terms of speed and damage but now that thats that our ultimate defense needs to be nerfed.

... And then I just stopped using a shield altogether and now I'm a 1h without a shield.(It slows me Down)

The truth comes out 

Everyone uses the huscarl shield because every other shield got nerfed into the dirt. People bitched and moaned about shields in general before because of the "force field" effect, and now shielders are pretty much required to use a huscarl if they don't want people shooting them in the feet/head, even with high shield skill.

I think huscarl shield is fine. It weighs 9!!!! That much weight slows you down a lot when paired with other equipment. If you have a problem with everyone running around with huscarl shields these days, campaign for the most recent shield changes to be reverted. I suspect you will have more luck.

Were this a vote, I definitely would not vote to nerf the huscarl shield. And I don't play a shielder. I play a 2hander, polearmer, and xbowman.

Everyone was using the Huscarl way before the patch it's been the main shield for a while now. It weighs 9 yes but the other top tier shields weigh MORE and only for a little more protection. Theres a big difference between how much 9 slows you down and the 11 a board shield does.

We shielders now have the ability to counter attack pretty damn effectively at least I have no trouble getting kills. I just don't want shields that can last for a whole round despite dozens of hits. It's not fair that we don't have to manual block AT ALL most of the time.

I simply want to force shielders to manual block more. Lets make "easy mode" a little less easy, no?

[Gorath]

It's not fair that we don't have to manual block AT ALL most of the time.

Then it's not fair that shielders have to expend skill points to both use a shield in general, and make it not a big pile of suck (IE:  Fragile as a bird soaked in liquid nitrogen).

[Noble Crassius]

Then it's not fair that shielders have to expend skill points to both use a shield in general, and make it not a big pile of suck (IE:  Fragile as a bird soaked in liquid nitrogen).

I have 3 shield skill, use a heavy round shield (just recently down-graded from the huscarl) my shield will not break to a single opponent not using an axe weapon. It will usually take 3-4 non axe wielding people to cause my shield great harm. When it breaks I grab another. So there's that...Please stop lobbying for your class and think about what I'm trying to do..(balance our class)

Poll added. First post updated.

[Nogar]

nah way man... nah way! 

[Noble Crassius]

If this Hp nerf does go through I do think that it should be padded by;

1. buff to smaller shields
2. Weight reduction to those that recieve the HP nerf
3. And/or a speed increase for those effected by HP nerf

This will effectively make our shield faster (making it easier to block/counter attack with) but not let them last forever.

[Heroin]

If this Hp nerf does go through I do think that it should be padded by;

1. buff to smaller shields
2. Weight reduction to those that recieve the HP nerf
3. And/or a speed increase for those effected by HP nerf

This will effectively make our shield faster (making it easier to block/counter attack with) but not let them last forever.

This would be reasonable. A straight nerf to huscarl would not, imo.

Edit: Also, I break a huscarl shield in 3-4 hits with an axe with no speed bonus. Tested recently on the duel server.

[Gorath]

I have 3 shield skill, use a heavy round shield (just recently down-graded from the huscarl) my shield will not break to a single opponent not using an axe weapon. It will usually take 3-4 non axe wielding people to cause my shield great harm. When it breaks I grab another. So there's that...Please stop lobbying for your class and think about what I'm trying to do..(balance our class)

Poll added. First post updated.

Actually if you had any idea what was going on in the world of the NA servers you would know that I'm always either playing a 2her or polearm character.  Period.  This isn't lobbying for my class, it's lobbying against an unnecessary nerf to the weakest melee class and a buff to the two strongest.  Your heavy round shield, at shield skill 3, will break in 2-4 hits from my Mancleaver.  It will break on my other character using his great long axe in 2-3 hits as well.  I've tested a variety of shields on the duel server with those in my clan that do use shields at high levels (Dyval is a champ about letting me abuse him for testing and he has 6 shield skill with an elite cav shield, heirloomed and I still chew through it with my great long axe or mancleaver pretty damn fast).

[Noble Crassius]

Actually if you had any idea what was going on in the world of the NA servers you would know that I'm always either playing a 2her or polearm character.  Period.  This isn't lobbying for my class, it's lobbying against an unnecessary nerf to the weakest melee class and a buff to the two strongest.

Lol sorry to say Gorath but I don't keep personal tabs on you, I never was one for hero worship you see. This nerf could be considered a BUFF why? For all purposes 1hand are the weakest cuz we are SLOW (run speed). Our top tier shields slow us down so much it's hard to maintain people in our reach. The biggest problem I have is back peddling spammers, I'd imagine is across the board. Nerf the HP BUFF the speed and LOWER the weight and we will have less TURTLES and more KILLERS! My goal is to get shielders out of their shell and give them a chance to kill. 1h wep speed has already been buffed to the point where people are whining this is the only way left.

Your heavy round shield, at shield skill 3, will break in 2-4 hits from my Mancleaver.  It will break on my other character using his great long axe in 2-3 hits as well.  I've tested a variety of shields on the duel server with those in my clan that do use shields at high levels (Dyval is a champ about letting me abuse him for testing and he has 6 shield skill with an elite cav shield, heirloomed and I still chew through it with my great long axe or mancleaver pretty damn fast).

Your Mancleaver (nice name lol) most likely master worked (correct me if I'm wrong) probably has an insane amount of damage on it, no? however I highly doubt it will only take 2-3 hits for my shield to break i'd imagine more like 4-5 but I guess I have nothing to do but believe you *shrug*. (are we talking about the 1h version or the 2h version??)

First post modified yet again. Included padding.

[rustyspoon]

I have to disagree with this. I use an heirloomed heavy round shield and trust me, it breaks a lot as it is. 3 or 4 hits with an axe and no more shield. I just don't see the shields as they are being any kind of problem. If shields were weaker, what would be the point? Why not just make a 2 hander or a polearm user?

I use a shield because I like the playstyle. I find it fun. I don't see how they are overpowered at all really. Having a shield makes you very slow, which in turn makes it a hell of a lot harder to feint fast 2 handers.

If shields need any changes, it would be to have shield speed actually mean something. As it is, they are all equally fast. If certain shields got an actual speed boost that meant something, maybe people would start to use different shields.

[Gorath]

Lol sorry to say Gorath but I don't keep personal tabs on you, I never was one for hero worship you see.

I don't expect you to.  Was merely making a point in a semi-dickish manner.     I haven't played a shielder very much at all since the patch because I really don't see much point other than for preference in style (which I can understand).

This nerf could be considered a BUFF why? For all purposes 1hand are the weakest cuz we are SLOW (run speed). Our top tier shields slow us down so much it's hard to maintain people in our reach. The biggest problem I have is back peddling spammers, I'd imagine is across the board. Nerf the HP BUFF the speed and LOWER the weight and we will have less TURTLES and more KILLERS!

Or we'll just have less shielders overall.  My point is that a double act balance adjustment like this is the wrong way to go about it.  Give incentives for the other shields to be used first.  THEN if the big shields are a problem (which I don't think they are at the moment either) work on nerfing them.

My goal is to get shielders out of their shell and give them a chance to kill. 1h wep speed has already been buffed to the point where people are whining this is the only way left.

I'd like that as well, however shielders aren't an issue atm anyways.  You even acknowledge that 1hers are the weakest of the holy trinity (2h/pole/1h) of melee.  The shields are annoying you and they have alot of haters, I hear it in VOIP all the time.  Hate shields.  They're not strong, but "gay" or "annoying" or "ez-mode".  Not a balance thing, just a personal dislike for them is rather prevelant among the non-shielders since they're seen as lesser players.

Your Mancleaver (nice name lol) most likely master worked (correct me if I'm wrong) probably has an insane amount of damage on it, no? however I highly doubt it will only take 2-3 hits for my shield to break i'd imagine more like 4-5 but I guess I have nothing to do but believe you *shrug*. (are we talking about the 1h version or the 2h version??)

The 2h version.  Unbalanced, and actually I just retired and heirloomed it for the first time today.  It used to deal 43c.  Now it does 46c.  No bonus vs shields (which I honestly think it should have since they made it unbalanced for god knows why).

I have to disagree with this. I use an heirloomed heavy round shield and trust me, it breaks a lot as it is. 3 or 4 hits with an axe and no more shield. I just don't see the shields as they are being any kind of problem. If shields were weaker, what would be the point? Why not just make a 2 hander or a polearm user?

I use a shield because I like the playstyle. I find it fun. I don't see how they are overpowered at all really. Having a shield makes you very slow, which in turn makes it a hell of a lot harder to feint fast 2 handers.

If shields need any changes, it would be to have shield speed actually mean something. As it is, they are all equally fast. If certain shields got an actual speed boost that meant something, maybe people would start to use different shields.

This is how I see it as well for the most part.

[Kalam]

If you have trouble against shielders in general as another melee build and you're not using really short weapons, you need to work on your overall game. The biggest advantage to being a shielder is that you don't die as much to ranged builds.

My preferred play style will always be a light armoured 2-hander, but I have a tendency to get slaughtered before reaching the battle with it, so I've stopped playing it as much.

[Noble Crassius]

My heavy round shield (unloomed) also breaks in 3-4 hits from axes  so i guess if any one can take anything away from this thread it's that looming the heavy round is useless lol. I think I've said all I can say on this issue except:

Damage Calcs!
15 str 5ps 152 wpf 0 armor 33c (my build/preferred wep)
    * Minimum: 53
    * Average: 53
    * Maximum: 53

Huscarls Round Shield:
weight 9
requirement 4
hit points 410
body armor 19
spd rtng 81
shield width 43
Can't use on horseback

If I make a mistake some where please tell me.  53(my damage) - 19(resistance)=34. So if I understand this right every time I hit the Huscarl shield I should be taking around 34 hit points away. 410/34 = 12ish

So not including the innate bonus some one would get from having at LEAST shield skill 4 it will take me 12 hits to completely destroy the Huscarl. Hmph I would actually be ok with that, it's high but not that high. Does any one have the formula for the shield skill? Thinks it's been asked and no one knows huh...

[Noble Crassius]

If you have trouble against shielders in general as another melee build and you're not using really short weapons, you need to work on your overall game. The biggest advantage to being a shielder is that you don't die as much to ranged builds.

My preferred play style will always be a light armoured 2-hander, but I have a tendency to get slaughtered before reaching the battle with it, so I've stopped playing it as much.

It's not that I'm having trouble per say, its that after I hit a shield 6-10 times I get BORED (and tired maybe causing me to miss a block or two >.>). Good shielders (or the rly bad ones i.e. turtles) will never die unless some one comes in and rapes them in the ass. If shielders could become more offensive based and less defensive based I would be oh so happy (and might want to play on my main again)

[Kalam]

It's not that I'm having trouble per say, its that after I hit a shield 6-10 times I get BORED (and tired maybe causing me to miss a block or two >.>). Good shielders (or the rly bad ones i.e. turtles) will never die unless some one comes in and rapes them in the ass. If shielders could become more offensive based and less defensive based I would be oh so happy (and might want to play on my main again)

Here's how you can stop that: just sidestep and slash with a long 2h/polearm. It doesn't matter if the shielder has high athletics, it's just a matter of finding the right angle. It'll 'go through the shield' just like it goes through blocks on shorter weapons. I do this all the time to shielders when I'm a 2-hander/polearm user.

[Diomedes]

I see no issue with the huscarl besides the fact it's ubiquitous.  I'm all for people using sensible gear but I'd prefer to see a bit more diversity (Huscarl shield with fur lining?  Free trimming anyone?).

Huscarl shields makes 1h+shield a viable build in long/intense engagements.  I see no reason to punitively cripple sword+shield warriors in the middle of a battle just because they've been fighting "too much" for one round.  Weakening shields in a serious way is like cutting quiver size in half for archers or collapsing tired horses under lancers.  Each of these builds, like any other, has strengths which are difficult to overcome when faced head on.  Shielder are no different, they often just require a little more patience to overcome than most other builds.