No trade cap causing huge gaps...

[Konrax]

Currently with no hard cap on how much trade cargo you can carry clans like "Druzhina" are getting a major edge from mass production across map and moving huge piles of goods.

In Kulum (Top left corner of the map) there are 5 Druz players just making trade goods and I bet every so often someone comes by and takes all their loot back to their empire in the bottom right corner and cashes in on huge money.

This should not be possible, you physically can't transport over 9000 goods with a single troop and no horses.

chadz, please consider my recommendation for merchants/horses so that at least these big clans will have to scale up their trade caravans to be able to achieve the gold income they currently have.

http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,19776.0.html

Thank you for the read.

[Dehitay]

Currently with no hard cap on how much trade cargo you can carry clans like "Druzhina" are getting a major edge from mass production across map and moving huge piles of goods.

In Kulum (Top left corner of the map) there are 5 Druz players just making trade goods and I bet every so often someone comes by and takes all their loot back to their empire in the bottom right corner and cashes in on huge money.

This should not be possible, you physically can't transport over 9000 goods with a single troop and no horses.

chadz, please consider my recommendation for merchants/horses so that at least these big clans will have to scale up their trade caravans to be able to achieve the gold income they currently have.

http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,19776.0.html

Thank you for the read.

Understanding of the very way the system is supposed to work - fail!

[Matey]

well it would be rather hard for them to protect their interests in that area if their were a hostile group there... secondly... 8000 goods? from 5 players? 5 players would make 120 goods a day if at 100%... sooo 8000/120=66.66... thats how many days it would take to amass 8000 goods. you might be overestimating the amount of goods they are sending by a bit

[Beat]

Konrax, I read your post several times and I don't see any explanation of what these "huge gaps" are in your subject.

By the way, if Druzhina is doing what you say they are, what is stopping you or your faction from doing the same?

[BaleOhay]

or sit on the trade route and help yourself to their goods if it only protected by 1 troop. imagine all the time and money saved instead of making them yourself.

[Keshian]

or sit on the trade route and help yourself to their goods if it only protected by 1 troop. imagine all the time and money saved instead of making them yourself.

Seriously, there are HUGE advantages and also disadvantages to that kind of far-range trading.  Unless of course all the lands between you and that area are entirely claimed by members of your EU carebear alliance.  Its on the shoulders of the neutrals bandits to make good use of this information.

[The_Angle]

Carebear Alliance is just another one of those conspiracy organisations. Alot like Illuminati.

CAREFUL EU MIGHT USE DIPLOMACYTOSTEAMROLLUS INSTEADOFZERGINGGGG!?!?!!!1

[Gorath]

CAREFUL EU MIGHT USE DIPLOMACYTOSTEAMROLLUS INSTEADOFZERGINGGGG!?!?!!!1

Diplomacy = Zerging = Diplomacy = Zerging

Same thing.  "Ohfuckwe'rescaredquickusediplomacytogainmorepeople!"
"Ohfuckwe'rescaredquickgozergrecruitsowecangainmorepeople!"

 

[Blondin]

Carebear alliance like the one you don't see much NA village defenders?

About op, you're late, this will be fixed in next website patch.
Anyway, little honest merchant like me used the same mechanics, and if any clan didn't understood how to craft and trade goods, then the leader should change of game.

[Erasmas]

Seriously, there are HUGE advantages and also disadvantages to that kind of far-range trading.  Unless of course all the lands between you and that area are entirely claimed by members of your EU carebear alliance.  Its on the shoulders of the neutrals bandits to make good use of this information.

Kesh, you have a twisted view on that, I am afraid.  The EU carebear alliance (ECA for future reference) members are doing exactly the same thing as anyone here - they are trying to make a living, any method available, with or (more often) without support of their ECA co-members. And do not tell me that certain NA clans do not support others. Do not get me wrong - it is quite ok they do 

About upcoming changes: I do believe that there will be a counterintuitive result of implementing them. Any way by which devs will try to limit trade will apply to everyone, so they will have devastating effect of even slower action in Strat less battles, poverty easily seen as shitty eq on the  battlefields. Cause the limitation of the goods carried in the caravan, is in fact limitation of trade.

If the amount of goods that can be carried (or speed of caravan) depends on the number of troops, all that you see are caravans consisting of several guys, well equipped and with substantial army. In the result no bandit will be able to attack such caravan. So, it will hit bandits more than anyone else. The caravan will be even better protected if the outside world is able to see an estimate of goods' amount carried.

Besides, it is logically inconsistent - larger amount of troops slows the army down. Goods will slow the caravan down. But the slow movement of the caravan carrying goods is supposed to be counterbalanced by higher number of troops. Weird. What is the difference between the army carrying goods and the caravan with troops? I do not mention horses, cause the price of the horses actually makes the whole caravan stuff ridiculous. 

The principal problem is that the economy in strat is OPEN. By "open", I mean that money in locations appear out of thin air. And the total amount in the system will (in current circumstances) grow forever, and that means stronger caravans, more goods carried, and lower ability of bandits to run the effective raids on caravans. Any action limiting trade aims only in making the process longer.

It is still developing and it will take time to see regular wars. But we will see them, unless Mr. C decides to do another wipe....

[Matey]

i like the current method. you can send a nice big safe caravan that costs some money and is a bit slower... or a 49 troop no upkeep caravan with decent speed that can fight off small bandits... or gamble on a 1 troop 1 horse speed caravan and try to outrun people. and since it doesnt say how many goods people are carrying, and goods dont slow people down... it means bandits will have to either get good intel, or be aggressive and do some hit and miss. I think its pretty awesome the way it is... trading just needs to be more profitable so more people do it.

[Zaharist]

The principal problem is that the economy in strat is OPEN. By "open", I mean that money in locations appear out of thin air. And the total amount in the system will (in current circumstances) grow forever

+1

Only one thing to mention: money in battles dissapear. I mean first you get 100k gold out of nothing, then you buy 90k gold equip, then you attack someone and almost all equip (=gold you spent on buying it) that was used during the battle dissapears after it. +troops' wages.
But still total amount of gold grows.

2Konrax.
i agree that current trade system and economics should be changed a lot, but it is still beta and devs are working on it.

Each troop can carry 1 trade good.
Each horse allows for 1 extra trade good to be carried up to the current number of troops.
Each troop can steer an additional trade horse which can carry another 2 goods

Troops and horses carrying goods? How do you image it?


in Kulum we produce Salted Cod
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


We, 5 druzhinnikov, produce about 120 per day.
Then we pack them in different crates
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Then arrives our merchant on his cart with only 1 horse.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/29776240@N07/2820840379/

We load him with 6-7 crates and send him back.
And it seems to be ok and quite real, way better then 1 troop carrying 1 fish.

If we talk about limits, then we need 2 things:
1. carts (different types)
2. physical parametrs of goods (weight, size)
Better carts need more and better horses, but can carry more goods and 2-3 "troops" to handle with it.

[Konrax]

When you produce 1 trade good look at it like its a quantity enough to fill a bag on a packing horse.

Either a soldier can carry 1 pack of goods, or he can ride a horse which can carry 2 trading goods. If your moving enough wares and have an extra horse then that same troop can steer 1 additional horse which can also carry 2 packs of trading goods.

Makes sense?

[Erasmas]

I am afraid it does not. 

5 guys in 7 days can produce 840 goods.

Now, lets forget you can sell on spot, we think about caravans here. In your idea 1 troop can carry max 5 goods IF he holds 2 horses. That means that you need 840/5 = 168 troops and 336 horses for that. Two problems kick in - troop upkeep, and price of horses. 336 cheapest horses costs 64.431g!!! You need to send 4 guys on the caravan to avoid upkeep kick in. Only 1 guy will remain for production. The travel will not cost you, and so the sale price depends on distance.

Assuming the medium-long distance of 70.000m the max achievable price on 840 goods is 70787g. The round trip will take 4 days.  But the same goods sold in nearby location @ 24,75g +my old friend of ~ 3g will give you 23.310. And you will have the 0,5 day gap in production. In 3,5 days (difference in travel time) you can produce either 84 goods with one guy or 420 goods with 5 guys. 420 goods on the local market is worth 11655 g. So if you go on very short caravans (up to 0,5 day) your total income after 11 days is 34965g (, and in medium - long one 70787g (-1% tax in both cases. 50% difference. Considering the risk involved in long caravan, and I dare say there is limited sense in running medium - long range caravans. And when the fiefs become wholly owned by clans, and the taxes will go up - there will be totally no sense in long caravans. You just killed serious caravans and the bandits starved to death.

All such manners aim only in slowing down the trade, not balancing it. It hits everyone, and that gap between small groups and large clans remains the same, save for general mess involved in management. 

About the size and weight - that is very complicated. One fief produces gems or shrimps and the other produces barrels or brass sheets. Production costs and sale prices are exactly same.  Producing big stuff will not be profitable :-)  That leads us to "better" and "worse" fiefs...

[PhantomZero]

This is mainly due to chadz trying to implement a trading system without any sort of economy.