Strategus Battles - Respawn timer based on K:D

[Seawied]

As I have probably led or been in most of the strategus battles over the last month I think I have some insight that other players may not, so here goes my try at constructive criticism.

This is a bad idea, there is already a huge problem of uneven teams in Strategus.

Here is an example, the battle is 5000 troops vs 1000 troops.

The team with 5000 troops can only get 35 players to sign up, where the army with 1000 troops can get 60 players to show up.
Now you have a 5:1 ratio of tickets but a 1:2 player ratio.  The team with 60 players will be able to kill tickets faster (all other things being equal, such as player skill) because they have twice as many players actually playing.  But now since the 5000 troop team can only respawn every 30 seconds and the team with 60 players can respawn every 5 seconds they've effectively turned a 2:1 player ratio into a 12:1 player advantage.  Also this will make spawn camping much worse.

Teams that are clever and use teamplay (or just have more players) already have an advantage based on tactics, they don't need a physical game mechanic to give them an additional bonus.

I would like to see the spawns changed.

Also I'd like to see a way for the enemy team to surrender so you don't have to kill 4000 peasants.
Also I'd like to see a way to retreat.
I like the idea of spawn flags, but it would be extremely tricky to balance this.

I think a combination of the two would work well. Instead of KDR, have it be the remaining tickets

[CtrlAltDe1337]

If you get a ratio of 5:1, you deserve to win anyway.

Yes because IRL the bigger army always wins, no matter the equipment, leadership, or tactics 

[Michael]

With a good K:D ratio, one team could get reinforcements within 3 seconds, while the worse team would eventually have to wait up to 25, 30 seconds per respawn.
[...]
it would allow a smaller team to win against a large team

What is wrong. You know why? The current system we use, with respawns, already priviliges quality over quantity A LOT.

In reality, a group of 50 people would never be able to defeat a mob of 10.000 people, no matter how skilled they were, or what gear they use.

In the game, they already can kill way more than they would be able to kill, when all enemies were present at the same time. 

If you realize this idea, the small group will, after having survived the first offense of the larger group, be able to fight the enemy in many 1 vs 1 what violates the whole system, frankly because it takes away the advantage of the mob (way more numbers of the larger group), what makes a mob useless.

[Leiknir]

The problem is some people want strategus battles to be balanced or fair. But they are just there to portray the stuff going on on the map. If a faction fails to deliver an army to the fight, it should not get any benefits but be crushed.

[Braeden]

I shouldn't be able to destroy 60000 man armies with 100 troops just because I have good fighters and we can all get 10-1.  I should be able to do that because I have 6001 troops and we can all get 10-1.

[CtrlAltDe1337]

Just another idea I had, maybe its good maybe its not: tie the amount of players allowed on a team to ticket ratio.

For example, I have a 100 man army attacking Captain Troll, who has 10 men.  I can hire 10 times as many troops as he can (60 troops*, he can hire 6).


Or another scenario: Captain troll has 12,000 men, I have 5000.  Capt. Troll can hire 60 troops*, I can hire 25. 


This would make the player ratio = ticket ratio, and you wouldn't need to mess with spawn time.






*61 is the current limit AFAIK, you could raise this I suppose to make net player count 122 instead of evenly divided.  Or raise it even higher.




But maybe this idea isn't good, I'm sure its been suggested before.  Perhaps there is some shortfall I don't see.

[SPQR]

I like the idea of having multiple capturable spawns or some sort of mobile spawn system.

I don't think having a spawn timer that changes is needed, however.

[Noble Crassius]

Only problem I see with multiple captureable spawn points is how is it decided what spawn points you will spawn at? If its random that could seriously weaken a team when they spawn all over the map. but if its like battlefield where you can select spawn points then I'm 100% for this!  ...If its not possible  then how about capturable flags that decrease your teams spawn time? or increases the other teams spawn time? or both?

Wave responding like in sp would be kick ass, would make things more tactical as well
+1 to route idea
+1 to retreat idea only if it has a stiff penalty

[22nd_King_Plazek]

It is possible, Vince coded conquest mode to be like that for Musket Mod and it is real nice.

[Thomek]

Rewarding teamwork is definitely a good thing. Strategus battles are way too much of a game of numbers.

Numbers should count however, so perhaps a tactic bonus similar to singleplayer, with amount of hirable soldiers should be enforced.

1000 vs 100, should be 100 vs 10 in the battle.

Still, with the respawn timer bonus. Say those 10 are armored knights and the rest mere light infantry, the Knights should have the advantage, and could perhaps push the KD ratio so far that they win in the end, or do far more damage to the enemy's number of troops.

Of course there are examples of players with 10:1 K:D ratio, but almost never for a whole team, unless they ran out of weapons or something like this. This is just a matter of experience and adjustment to find the right factors for the spawntimes.

Maybe make a server to test out the concept and adjust it in a "normal" battlemode?

Another note, please make it so that anyone can get accepted to a battle if no one has been hired 1 hour to 30 minutes before it starts.. Too many battles are playerless, and take up time in the Strategus calendar.. (Also all battles should have some kind of minimum equipment of simple spears and clubs, as well as some simple peasant armor for free by default)

Anyway, these changes could lead to people "Topping" their equipment lists, going for heavy gear in the beginning of the match to get a good initial K:D ratio, gradually changing it to cheaper gear. I think the consequences are interesting and should be tested!

[CtrlAltDe1337]

It is possible, Vince coded conquest mode to be like that for Musket Mod and it is real nice.

I would love to see this in cRPG.  I was a big BF2 player and imo the same system would work great, especially for sieges.

[Tai Feng]

Does it calculate troop ratios somehow? Else you will just see normal10k armies destroyed by 60fullplate charger people.

Exactly.

And guess who in Strategus has been fighting with super-great equipment all the time, and guess who has been using average one all the time. Then do the math.

[Yaron]

Didnt read anything, but:

Dunno, this would mean, the obviously already better team gets even more advantage by faster respawn time ... I think you shouldnt implent it, wouldnt probably make such a difference anyway.

The second idea sounds interesting though, I think this would be pretty cool, not to mention that the stupid random respawning in the middle of 10 enemies would finally stop ... =)

[KingBread]

capturable spawn points ---> Hell yes
changing spawn timer ---> yes, but it should include something more than just K:D like advantage in soldiers could also inflict it mayby less than k:d but it should.

All in all great idea that will kill the mod

[krampe]

Yes for updateable spawnpoints!

and bind player ratio to ticket ratio!

Just split the 122 player pool relational to the ticket amount,
like 20000 vs 10000 ticket / 91 to 31 players, this will also end idiotic blocking armies because the smaller will get slaughtered quickly.
With a minimum of 75% to 25% it should be okay (no bigger difference possible even if it would be 100000 vs 300 to still do the sparta thing).
200 vs 100 the same, 20 vs 10 / 20 to 10 just because of not enough tickets) etc.

Also reduce the transfer radius to and from villages/castle/towns to the same as player to player (or less).
(who needs player chains if you have village chains...)