Steel Pick (continued discussion)

[Diomedes]

Back on topic I haven't seen many people running around with picks. I have not had the chance to play in a few days due to clan matters so I may be a little off. 

They're not as common like some other weapons but they certainly do turn up now and again.  Though, consider their placement in the cRPG demographic:

- only some cRPG players use 1handers
^ the steel pick requires getting in close and surviving some hits while getting there.  This is best done by a dedicated 1hander.
^^ of all the 1h players there are only a few people who feel comfortable with a weapon as exceptionally short as the steel pick
^^^ those players are selecting gear from amongst the entire cast of 1h weapons

[Tydeus]

I listed the minimum heirloom level required for the polearms to exceed the damage done by a masterwork steel pick to a player in 50 armor. Further heirlooming the polearms on that list will still leave them doing more damage than a masterwork steel pick. Polearms not on that list do less damage than a masterwork steel pick regardless of the number of times they are heirloomed. I can make a list of the 40 masterwork polearms and 27 masterwork two-handed weapons that do less damage than the masterwork steel pick if you would like.

I think this quote by itself should end the discussion right here. We're talking about a one-handed weapon doing more damage than 40 MW polearms and 27 MW two-handed weapons. How the fuck does anyone think this makes sense? Dan and MoW have been going higher str builds than athletics recently and they still have no problems closing in on people. You don't NEED athletics to use this weapon effectively, just as you don't NEED athletics to use the Great Maul(the shortest range two-hander coming in at 68) effectively.

Actually, it's kind of funny that all of those you listed have either crushthrough, shieldbreak, or knockdown. Not relevant to the discussion but funny.

The bec has stagger, which is just as burly as the three other things you mentioned and indeed, it is rather interesting.

[Engine]

I think this quote by itself should end the discussion right here. We're talking about a one-handed weapon doing more damage than 40 MW polearms and 27 MW two-handed weapons. How the fuck does anyone think this makes sense? Dan and MoW have been going higher str builds than athletics recently and they still have no problems closing in on people. You don't NEED athletics to use this weapon effectively, just as you don't NEED athletics to use the Great Maul(the shortest range two-hander coming in at 68) effectively.The bec has stagger, which is just as burly as the three other things you mentioned and indeed, it is rather interesting.

Ty - the pick is the 5th most expensive 1h. It kind of makes sense that it'd do more damage than a Farmer's Scythe...
The comparison makes more sense when you compare the damage against the top 5 or 10 poles or 2hs.

[WaltF4]

The comparison makes more sense when you compare the damage against the top 5 or 10 poles or 2hs.

The steel pick does more damage than 3 of the 5 most expensive polearms and 4 of the 5 most expensive two-handed weapons to people in 50 armor. The steel pick also does more damage than 5 of the 8 polearms and 9 of the 11 two-handed weapons that cost more than 6889.

EDIT: Fixed typo

[Engine]

Sweet!

[Tydeus]

Ty - the pick is the 5th most expensive 1h. It kind of makes sense that it'd do more damage than a Farmer's Scythe...
The comparison makes more sense when you compare the damage against the top 5 or 10 poles or 2hs.

I'm not a person that thinks you can balance something in crpg by simply giving it a high price. When people have 500K+ even if you allowed someone to use an AWP for 100K gold and 10K for bullets, it still wouldn't be remotely balanced. Making an item used less often does in no way affect its usefulness when actually equipped.

Sorry, Engine. You're a skilled 1her but I still can't say the item of your choice is balanced.

[Engine]

Fair enough, Ty. My point there was to show that yes, it does more damage than a lot of poles/2hs, but that a lot of those are only used while leveling. Who uses a pitchfork consistently, not as a joke? They're stepping stones.

I totally agree - if something is broken, putting a high pricetag on it doesn't fix the problem. I just don't think the steel pick is OP, considering its drawbacks.

Oh yeah... I'd also ask people to take into consideration that of the three consistent pick users (that I know of) on NA, all three of us have heirloomed our picks... So, they will seem faster and more damaging than normal.

[Spawny]

On EU, the only guys I've seen use picks consistently are DimaUrban (RuConqista) and Louis le morte (Fallen).

[Diomedes]

I think I have screenshots of five guys who were using steel picks consistently and to great effect, and I know at least one of them wasn't using an heirloomed pick.

Should I add a poll now that the thread has had time to play out?

[Kalam]

I think I have screenshots of five guys who were using steel picks consistently and to great effect, and I know at least one of them wasn't using an heirloomed pick.

I'm actually a little disgusted at how common it's becoming. Disgusted enough to consider retirement for a change of weapon. I still hold that it's easier for me to kill people who are using steel picks than most other weapons.

[Tydeus]

Fair enough, Ty. My point there was to show that yes, it does more damage than a lot of poles/2hs, but that a lot of those are only used while leveling. Who uses a pitchfork consistently, not as a joke? They're stepping stones.

I totally agree - if something is broken, putting a high pricetag on it doesn't fix the problem. I just don't think the steel pick is OP, considering its drawbacks.

Oh yeah... I'd also ask people to take into consideration that of the three consistent pick users (that I know of) on NA, all three of us have heirloomed our picks... So, they will seem faster and more damaging than normal.

I wouldn't call 19 of the 37 Two-Handers stepping stones and there are 27 which do less damage than the pick on an opponent with merely 50 armor. I wouldn't call 22 of the 45 polearms stepping stones and there are 40(FOURTY) which do less damage than the pick on an opponent with merely 50 armor. If this doesn't put it into perspective with how much damage that weapon does I don't really know if there is any way to convince you. This seems pretty obvious to me, you're swinging it with one arm instead of two. You're swinging it from behind the comfort of your shield.

[Siiem]

I like how the only reason for balance is "Does someone top the scoreboards with a certain weapon" mentality.

[Fluffy_Muffin]

I like how the only reason for balance is "Does someone top the scoreboards with a certain weapon" mentality.

Exactly, ppl get owned by the skill of a player that happens to be using a steel pick and they yell nerf steel pick

[Diomedes]

I like how the only reason for balance is "Does someone top the scoreboards with a certain weapon" mentality.

I already stated that I'm far more effective with a deadly steel pick than my deadly warhammer.  I also gave many reasons for the pick being an exceptionally effective weapon for its price.  Please don't try to derail this discussion just because you don't like what people have to say.

[Siiem]

I already stated that I'm far more effective with a deadly steel pick than my deadly warhammer.  I also gave many reasons for the pick being an exceptionally effective weapon for its price.  Please don't try to derail this discussion just because you don't like what people have to say.

It was more of general reply honestly. And I agree that this weapon might be abit too much. I only hate it when people bring up the topping scoreboards statement.