[STATS] Halfswording should use 2h prof

[Laufknoten]

Yes, because it makes sense.

[MrShine]

This  was my suggestion about giving 2h mode for poleaxes but i think even if that happens,poleaxe on 2h mode should use 2h wpf.
Just same as this situation.
WPF=Your experience which is gained by fighting with same style.Half swording is very very different technique and it is somehow similar to polearm fighting techniques so it is %100 normal for it to use polearm WPF instead of 2h.
Its like you know how to drive a car so you want to pilot a plane with your car driving licence.
No from me.

Thinking of it in a different way, suppose you are a master swordman... wouldn't you know how to use that sword in different ways?

Someone with high proficiency isn't going to be like WOAH I'VE NEVER HELD THIS WEAPON LIKE THIS BEFORE BWAAAA, they are going to be experienced in all forms of the weapon.

So I vote yes.

[Tot.]

Yes, because it makes sense.

Oh, it completely makes sense. Holding your sword in a bit different way clearly is more like using a halberd than using the mentioned sword normally.

[HarunYahya]

1. Realism argument.
2.  So in your opinion in real life if a skilled swordsman is using his two handed sword with halfswording technique he is also experienced and proficient while using halberds, poleaxes and all other polearm weapons?  Since thats what comes out logically if your argument is valid.

1.Of course i base my suggestions to realism.Otherwise add lightsabers instead.
2.Basically yes halfswording attack and block tecniques are closer to poleaxe fight rather than great sword fights.Usage of every aspect of the weapon,stronger stabs,surprise attacks,über balanced and powerful slashes...

3.All i say is halfswording is completely different and requires different training than normal sword fighting.If you want to use it properly,you should learn the tecnique (WPF) first.

[HarunYahya]

Thinking of it in a different way, suppose you are a master swordman... wouldn't you know how to use that sword in different ways?

Someone with high proficiency isn't going to be like WOAH I'VE NEVER HELD THIS WEAPON LIKE THIS BEFORE BWAAAA, they are going to be experienced in all forms of the weapon.

So I vote yes.

No lol
You start this game as a peasant not "master swordsman" . If you want to become a "master swordsman" just get high "weapon master" skill and pump your wpf to 2handed and polearm therefore you'll learn both regular sword technique and half-swording capiche ?

[Fraemi]

1.Of course i base my suggestions to realism.Otherwise add lightsabers instead.
2.Basically yes halfswording attack and block tecniques are closer to poleaxe fight rather than great sword fights.Usage of every aspect of the weapon,stronger stabs,surprise attacks,über balanced and powerful slashes...

3.All i say is halfswording is completely different and requires different training than normal sword fighting.If you want to use it properly,you should learn the tecnique (WPF) first.

1. Realism is useful as far as defining the setting and very flexible limits, balancing the game BY realism is impossible and would make the mod just crap. Ex: Making bows realistic would break the game, making armour realistic would make tincans nigh invincible, blocking with a 1h against a heavy polearm/2h would mean your bones get shattered, blocking repeated blows behind a shield would make your bones break as well etc.
oh and lightsabers are already ingame and they actually work better than old weapons did, for purpouses of

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fun and gameplay

2. Unless you have studied halfswording manuals and actually used both techniques, your claim is based on only that halfswording uses polearm animations in game which is lol.

3. Halfswording is similar to regular 2h, you put one hand a bit further upon the blade - that's it. Try this - pick up a stick about 0.8-1.2m long (massive bonus points if centre of mass is heavily towards one side - like a 2h sword), then swing it with a 2h similar grip then with a halfswording one. Main difference between polearms and halfswording is that the centre of mass is placed differently, for a sword it's around the pommel area - for a polearm it's in a completely different place. Polearm techniques are not similar to halfswording, I'm sure that if you claimed this to an actual experts you would get laughed at.

Not to mention that it's a complete waste to put wpf into both 2h and polearms JUST to use halfswording, I can't recall the last time I actually saw anyone use in a battle or a duel, probably months. I really pity anyone who actually put wpf into polearms to use halfswording, imo.

[MrShine]

No lol
You start this game as a peasant not "master swordsman" . If you want to become a "master swordsman" just get high "weapon master" skill and pump your wpf to 2handed and polearm therefore you'll learn both regular sword technique and half-swording capiche ?

"master swordsman" aka a dude who uses 2h over polearms.  Obviously if infantry puts all points into 2h they will use a 2h weapon.

You're trying to argue !realism! and I'm saying that that argument doesn't hold water if you're saying someone who is good with a sword will suddenly flop around like a trout if they hold the sword (they've been presumably using their entire time leveling) in a different way.

[Laufknoten]

Oh, it completely makes sense. Holding your sword in a bit different way clearly is more like using a halberd than using the mentioned sword normally.

Halfswording was a technique 2hers used against other 2hers in plate armor. In other words it was an advanced fighting style for special purpose. Even the biggest halfswording pro wasn't able to do shit with polearms, if he didn't train it.
So polearm wfp for halfswording is just bullshit.   

[Jarlek]

So many people thinking 2h wpf means "Big Sword" wpf. Cause axes/mauls/morningstars are not 2handed weapons xD

Basically the 2h wpf represent your proficiency when you hold a weapon with two hands at the end, while polearm wpf is when you hold it in more to the middle for greater balance but less reach.

1h wpf is obviously when you use a weapon in one hand. Although spear&shield still uses polearm wpf, hmmm.

But hey, wtf, whatever. Let's do this. I also want all throwing weapons in 1h mode to still use throwing wpf, I want the cudgel/grosse messer to still use 1h wpf when you use it in 2h animation mode.

And those polearm axes, I'm sure a lot of them were also fought with while holding them at the hilt like a sword. Let's make an alternate mode for them too (like it is in native) except here they still use polearm wpf. That sounds fair doesn't it?

[Fraemi]

2h swords are simply similar to morningstars and axes with similar center of mass than to anything else, mauls are ahistorical weapon and quite unrealistic anyway so those can be flat out ignored.
2h weapon proficiency represents (massive surprise ahead) proficiency with two handed weapons - how well you can use them, taleworlds defines them as 2h swords, great axes and mauls (+morningstars). Since that definition is a better starting point than someones random baseless claim, going by that it's fairly simple to see it says nothing about - "u put hand here xD". It's also dumb to think that all 2h swords or maces were swung with the exact same grip, speed and techniques, obviously not limiting "someone with 2h wpf" to swinging each and every weapon in the exact same way.

Thrusting a spear with 1 hand is completely different than slashing with a 1h sword or stabbing with it.
Also, hey - extreme, remote comparisons which noone ever mentioned and which don't make sense in any scenario! Indirect arguments which don't adress the matter at hand are cool, especially since those comparisons already been discussed.
For the realism argument - halfswording was used primarily for close range stabs against armoured guys primarily which is completely unlike how you use any of the classical polearms, it's a specific technique that only someone who was already using large, halfswording-capable swords would even bother to learn. It makes completely no sense how you can pick up a gs after a lifetime of being a spearman and know better how to swing it and also have a better sense of doing that than the lifetime 2h guy who brought that weapon to a siege battle.

[ArchonAlarion]

+1 to last sentence

[Slamz]

Everything Fraemi said basically indicates we should drop "polearm" as a category and roll all of them into 2H.



So basically I disagree.  Polearms and 2H weapons both use two hands.  The difference is how you hold them.  If you are going to hold your sword like a polearm, then it uses polearm skill.

[ArchonAlarion]

Then make 1 handing spears a different proficiency.

[Jarlek]

Then make 1 handing spears a different proficiency.

YES! Then we can actually boost hoplites without a bazillion retards shouting "BUT POLEARMS ARE OP!" when the shield&spear is COMPLETELY different from a poleaxe/glaive/whatever.

[Tot.]

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