[Stats] Balance Military/Steel pick's speed

[Penitent]

Please look at the chart before voting.

There is already a poll addressing the requirements for the steel pick, but don' think changing the str requirement will really balance this weapon.

This is THE most powerful 1h weapon.  It flat out does the most damage.  At the same time, it is one of the fastest.  The military pick is like it.  Yes, they are short, but that doesn't quite balance them against the other weapons.
Picks can be compared to 1h blunt weapons.  They are both short and armor-piercing.  The blunts have knock-down, and to balance against this the picks have more damage and are faster.  Lets see how they progress.  There are more blunts than picks, so I've filled in some blanks where the implied values would be if there were more "tiers" of picks.  Take a look.

                         Pierce                               Blunt
                 speed/damage              speed/damage
military sickle    100/ 26                             99/25     flanged mace
(implied)           (99/28)                              98/27    winged mace             
(implied)           (98/29)                              97/28    iberian mace           
military pick       98/30                                96/29    military hammer       
steel pick           99/32                                97/31    war hammer             

As you can see, the weapons more or less lose speed as they gain damage until you get to the last teir, where speed is +1 and damage is +2...EXCEPT for the last 2 picks.  Those stop losing speed, but still gain damage.  The steel pick gains both speed and damage.

In order to balance this, it is obvious we should reduce the speeds of the military pick and steel pick by 1.  Military should be 97, steel should be 98.  The alternative would be to increase the speed of the military/war hammers to 97/98.  Vote yes if you see my reasoning.  Let me know if my chart is hard to read or doesn't make sense.

The solution is to either increase the speed of the upper tier blunts, or decrease the speed of the picks.  Either way will balance this issue.

In game, I have wielded the steel pick and my k:d ratio went crazy.  It's just too fast and too deadly to remain as is in relation to the others.

[Penitent]

BTW if this poll doesn't succeed in getting my point across, I'm going to get a +3 deadly pick again and rape the scoreboards in protest. 

[Xant]

It being the most powerful 1h weapon is debatable. Reach is very important. There was a "omg steel pick is awesome" wave a few months back when everyone used one.. then people realized it wasn't quite as awesome as hyped, and soon people started returning to swords and other 1h weapons..

[Penitent]

It being the most powerful 1h weapon is debatable. Reach is very important. There was a "omg steel pick is awesome" wave a few months back when everyone used one.. then people realized it wasn't quite as awesome as hyped, and soon people started returning to swords and other 1h weapons..

Most powerful meaning it does the most damage against anyone wearing armor above 30.  (which is most ppl) That is objective.

I think some people may have stopped using it because it feels cheap.  That's why I stopped anyways. 

At the same time, if you disagree with it being the most damaging weapon, it's stats are still not balanced.

[Xant]

Damage isn't everything. It deals the most damage, yes, but that's to balance the low reach. The picks are well balanced in comparison to the hammers, too. Knockdown is a huge plus on a weapon.

[Penitent]

Damage isn't everything. It deals the most damage, yes, but that's to balance the low reach. The picks are well balanced in comparison to the hammers, too. Knockdown is a huge plus on a weapon.

I see what you mean.  Damage/length is negligible for this poll.  The blunts are also short and powerful.  The issue is the picks are too fast, imo.

I'm saying I think knockdown is not useful enough to warrant the speed difference.  It's rare that I win a confrontation with an enemy because I knocked him down (though its cool when it happens.)  However, with the pick, it is VERY common for me to win a confrontation of the enemy because I can out-speed his swings.

When the weapons are loomed this become even more apparent.  THe pick gets 100 speed, and the war hammer gets a minor percentage increase in knockdown.  I've used +3 war hammer and +3 steel pick.  These are my obervations.

[Penitent]

37 views, 3 votes.  Not a bad turn out for Americans (i'm american). ;)

[Xant]

Do you have any kind of stats to show the difference between 97 and 99 speed? From my experience, it's almost non-existant, and I very much doubt you get any extra kills due to those extra two speed points. If you can "out-speed" someone's swings, it means they failed at footwork or they are attacking out of turn. The knockdown is something that is very helpful both in 1v1s and teamfights, and it's a measurable bonus.

[Penitent]

Do you have any kind of stats to show the difference between 97 and 99 speed? From my experience, it's almost non-existant, and I very much doubt you get any extra kills due to those extra two speed points. If you can "out-speed" someone's swings, it means they failed at footwork or they are attacking out of turn. The knockdown is something that is very helpful both in 1v1s and teamfights, and it's a measurable bonus.

That's true.  I don't have the stats.  You are right, it would be useful to have those.  I can only compare from when I had the steel pick to now that I have the war hammer.  I know that now that I'm using the war hammer it feels more sluggish.  I'm not winning the "types" of engagements I was able to win before, and I'm not able to spam people like I was before.

This is not so much about personal experience or weapon feels though.  It's about the numbers.  The blunt weapons are slower and do less damage than the pierce, but they have knockdown.  Fine.  Balanced.

As you progress thru the tiers of blunts, each tier gets +1 damage and -1 speed, until you get to the top tier.  The same for picks, except at one point they stop losing speed but still get +1 damage.  This is the part that is not balanced in my mind.  I don't have the stats to show what a point of speed does, but the stats don't match up.  That is my only concern.

It's ok and good if people dont agree with me, but I wish more people would vote so we could see.

[San]

I feel the reach does balance it quite well. It's relatively easy to outspace, and the pick user is often times constrained to simple movements or limited (right) swings.

Warhammer has knockdown, where you can initiate a 3 hit combo if used properly. Steel pick doesn't have that.

[Vodner]

I've never found the steel pick to be unbalanced compared to other 1h. Even with average athletics, it's still fairly easy to use footwork to continuously get free hits in against pick users. Due to the incredibly short range of the left swing, it's also usually fairly easy to get kicks in.

Personally I prefer the military cleaver. I usually only use the pick if there are a lot of plate users on the other team.

[Penitent]

Very well, my pretties.  Keep voting no, and you will rue this day.  I will again get claim the phalanges of death as my weapon, once i know it will not be nerfed.  It's only a matter of time...   

[Xant]

Good thing I'm safe here in EU.

[Penitent]

I have decided that since most people seem to think this weapon is balanced, I will no longer feel bad about using it. 

Lament,
You peasants of Caldaria!
Men-at-arms and squires,
fall to your knees!
Nobles and Lords, encased in gauntlet and plate,
flee to your fortress.  Pray for the mountains to cover you whole;
mind, body, and soul.

O why, enemies of mine father,
do you cover yourself with steel and scale?
Of what use is a helm
before the very hand of death?
The phalanges of death, on an iron rod.
The spiked tip of Samael, without mercy.
The Turtle's Talon.
What ever it touches
dies.

[Xant]

Post screens of your steelpick scores here!