Hoping for some feedback on a few views

[Delro]

Depends where you live. In some states of the USA, you'd get a pat on the back and be told to keep up the good work. And why would they send someone to the nut house for saying that they'd defend their home again, if need arises. 

If I remember correctly there was a case in the northeast last year where a man with a shotgun killed a burglar armed only with a knife, and got 10 years in prison. You are most likely right though, different states have different stances.

That is beside the point, though - it was really just meant to be an anecdotal metaphor to convey the point that responding to chaos with chaos only begets punishment.

Should I have just said sorry and betrayed my own nature just to soothe the tender tempers of mods?

YES. This is where you are asking for special treatment. Your own pride may conflict with your ability to remain level headed. That is fine. But know that that is also behavior that often results in a ban.

Admins are people, with emotions, just like any other human being. They have to use their best judgement based on the situation at the time. Going back to the court analogy - if you were in court, for let's say a traffic ticket, and the judge said something that you fundamentally disagreed with, would you give them lip? Or would you be smart enough to realize that it is their court, and the state laws are set, and this is not the place for you to change them.

If you give a court judge lip you usually end up facing much harsher penalties, simply because of the mood you'd put him in. Treat admins the same way you'd treat anybody with authority in real life, like judges, police officers and teachers. It's really not hard to not be banned in this game - just act like an adult.

[Sir_Simon_Jekyll]

It isn't a red lag to mods and it STILL isn't cause for permenant ban as people team kill all the time and don't get banned, the difference is they lie or are simply kicked. It was not a simple situation and people here seem to be trivialising it more and more and now I am beginning to see 'Mod worship' which is a major problem. I cannot fight people to to gain favor with mods because they will have the winning team on their side. If someone broke into my home and I had to kill them to protect myself or my family I would and to say you wouldn't is a lie. That would be my argument in court. The fact you get charged for it is a deterant to others for taking the law into your own hands. Plead guilty and the sentance is reduced. I plead guilty the sentance was the same if not more harsh than the liars who plead not guilty. I team killed. Then I said why. A mod threatened me. I retaliated. Then I was banned. That is quite simple.

[Sir_Simon_Jekyll]

Your court analogy is wasted on me unfortunatly given my profession. If a judge is seen to let emotion give way to reason he would be disbarred. A judge is a judge because it isn't in his nature to do this that is why the Queen herself awards the honored privledge to people who are fit for the position. If your rant suggests you have no remorse for your crime in an irrational sense for something with no cause, of course you face a harsher sentance but not simply for being rude.

[Xant]

You are beginning to see mod worship? Sheep always look up to authorities and most people are sheep. Of course there's what you call "mod worship." Shouldn't be a big surprise to you. That said, you TKd, you got banned, just apologize. Derp.

[Sir_Simon_Jekyll]

I apologised to the guy I team killed on the day! I am not apologising to a mod, the mod does not deserve the apology. The problem is I am not a sheep. I team killed I held up my hand. I was met with hostility. Believe me I could be far crueller should I wish and far more abusive, but I choose to approach the issue fairly. I was 'permenantly banned' for one team kill AFTER a warning when I did not do it again.

[Delro]

Jekyll, you fail to see how what you did would bring on a ban?

If you were defending yourself and didn't know that was against the rules, fine. But to then feel the need to start spouting off about how you'd do it again? In any situation this is a bad idea.

The admin daring you to do it was, in his own way, issuing you a warning. It was up to you at that point to say "Ok. I'm sorry. I won't TK again, just tell so-and-so to lay off. Thanks." That would be the mature way to handle it. Even if an admin is being immature (in your view,) it is not up to you to face that with defiance. If you had just accepted the warning and moved on, you would not have been banned. From what you posted before though, regarding this situation, you complicated things simply by talking. Odds are if you had said nothing, and just continued playing, you wouldn't have been banned. But you had to be right.

If you want to play on other people's servers, you need to give up that hard-hardheadedness and just play the game according to their rules. I am not trivializing the issue. But honestly, even from your description of events, the first offense falls squarely on your shoulders.

[Sir_Simon_Jekyll]

I do not fail to see the reason I was banned. I was banned for my attitude, what your are saying is I fail to see why the mod is saying I was banned. Two entirly different things. It is not that I had to be right. At this point I was fed up anyway with the administration of this game. I had seen brown nosers allowed to run amok because they suck up to mods, I have seen mods team kill, I have seen a multitude of power abuse and I wasn't go to stand for it I am not whining. I do not care, I was prevoked into this debate by he mod who prevoked me originally. She lied to make her decision seem just and based on fact when the truth is she banned me for attitude be ir right or wrong. My point stands, by the rules I should have been warned and if I repeat offended then ban me, if I dont then don't ban me, if  offend you, mute me. I detect liars for a living! it isn't hard to do it with a second rate one on a forum when everything is this straight forward. You are write, I should have said 'I am wrong, fair enough' That is what should have been done, instead I chose to stand up for my act which is in its own way prevoking a debate or her to over use her power. But I didn't. I am not whining, merely replying to her and then veryone else who jumped to her defense.

[Xant]

I apologised to the guy I team killed on the day! I am not apologising to a mod, the mod does not deserve the apology. The problem is I am not a sheep. I team killed I held up my hand. I was met with hostility. Believe me I could be far crueller should I wish and far more abusive, but I choose to approach the issue fairly. I was 'permenantly banned' for one team kill AFTER a warning when I did not do it again.

Well then, off you go. It ain't a fair and just world, and this mod certainly isn't a democracy. If you can't live with the admin team what are you doing here?

[Sir_Simon_Jekyll]

I am here to play. Simple. I do not interact with mods or seek points in anyway so the fact they are there given my nature usually of following well stated set rules to the letter means little to me. The mods and I have not clashed before this incident and wouldn't again. Why should I care about them one way or the other? I play Because its fun. I don't have to like the coalition government because I am a citizen on the united kingdom.

[Delro]

I don't have to like the coalition government because I am a citizen on the united kingdom.

No you don't. But you have to follow the rules they set. Continue to do so and you won't be banned.

I've never had a problem with admins. Not because I have ever talked to any of them, or they are my friends, or because I suck up. It is because I know how to play nice and how to treat other players with respect. Honestly, all you need to do is PM Lilith and explain the situation. Not suck up, not kowtow - just say "Hey I know I was wrong. You know I'm smart enough not to TK again. Can I get an unban at some point?"

Don't derail your own thread (which I thought was a pretty great discussion on how not to get banned) by providing a living counterexample of how to get banned, and stay that way. Or maybe that is the plan?

[Xant]

Simon, then you need to apologize or leave. It's very simple. Everything else is useless.

[Sir_Simon_Jekyll]

Apologise to who and for what exactly?

[Espu]

You started a nice discussion and then threw it away in the first page. I'd like to quote myself here:

If you have a feeling you might be doing something wrong, think about it for a few seconds. In 99% of the cases you will reach the correct conclusion without even consulting the rules.

Admins cannot see everything. If I see you intentionally teamkilling a peasant, I will kick you without warning. I don't care if he kicked you three seconds ago, teamkills are still not allowed. Same goes for most offenses - I only act on what I see. If someone's causing trouble, announce him in the chat so an admin can take a look. Don't take "justice" into your own hands.

You might be unjustly punished. Of course that should not happen, but as all admins (except Wooki) are human, they sometimes make mistakes. Going all ragey in won't fix it. You probably want to let the admin know with a civilized reply, but raging won't do you any good. Quoting Smeagol, "we be nice to them if they be nice to us".

[Sir_Simon_Jekyll]

No you don't. But you have to follow the rules they set. Continue to do so and you won't be banned.

I've never had a problem with admins. Not because I have ever talked to any of them, or they are my friends, or because I suck up. It is because I know how to play nice and how to treat other players with respect. Honestly, all you need to do is PM Lilith and explain the situation. Not suck up, not kowtow - just say "Hey I know I was wrong. You know I'm smart enough not to TK again. Can I get an unban at some point?"

Don't derail your own thread (which I thought was a pretty great discussion on how not to get banned) by providing a living counterexample of how to get banned, and stay that way. Or maybe that is the plan?

I don't need to explain the situation she knows it well enough to manipulate the facts in her favour. I didn't do it again, and never said anything after her threat other than to point out it was a threat. I don't care if I am unbanned or not!!!!! I did not start this post to get unbanned! I couldn't care less about the ban itself. I was prevoked into debating this event by her!

[Sir_Simon_Jekyll]

You started a nice discussion and then threw it away in the first page. I'd like to quote myself here:

I was not abusive towards Lilith before she was hostile to me in the slightest, infact I was not hostile to anyone at all, I even apologised for theteam kill and said I would do it again because it was self defense. I was banned after the supposed warning for saying she was childish for goading me into doing it again so she could ban me. I only raged here because she made it seem like she warned me then I told her what I thought of her warning then she banned me. So I simply tried to get the facts out there. I started a nice discussion as was my goal and was prevoked into turning it around.