[Big Balance] Horses, THE ANSWER?!?!?!

[Chagan_Arslan]

I think the horse's bump is way too op, i mean seriously if there's 10 shielders shields up in line the horse can just run straight through them and bump every1     so not a singel buff to the horses i say.

where they close to each other ? domino effect ?

[Erathsmus]

Seems to be an issue here, the main focus you guys, is the idea of making horses use slots.

[Snoozer]

my bad.i think no. due to the fact its a massive nerf to a very nerfed class. if you keep beating the cav it will die eventually

lances are 2 slot and i would assume horses would be 2 slot as well so what does that leave them when they get dismounted? knights were not idiots they were armor clad with the best weapons the family can afford. i think the cav bill shows that right now so leave them alone(i dont use cav by the way only my last gen did i mingle in it but i was hardly a cavalry unit i was more of a troll)

[Ylca]

Price is only a limiting factor until a player's first retirement. Sell one loom and that goes out the window. Balancing classes by crpg gold isn't really going to work since the marketplace was introduced.

[Snoozer]

well on that subject i think once the twinks(those my old friends who stay under 26 to not pay upkeep sorry for the WoW term) disappear the never ending fountain of gold will be gone  and the vets will slowly geet drained of there gold imo.just saying

[Ylca]

well on that subject i think once the twinks(those my old friends who stay under 26 to not pay upkeep sorry for the WoW term) disappear the never ending fountain of gold will be gone  and the vets will slowly geet drained of there gold imo.just saying

Vets aren't going to get drained any time soon, trust me. Any time one comes close to draining he can simply trade a loom point for 400 to 500K and ride for another two generations. Hell, i'm considering selling my loom and going plated charger next gen. Archery fix is so nice though...

[Jarlek]

I've been thinking about this myself and believes this to greatly balance cav AND make HA/HC less annoying.

First of all this would mean that HA/HC would take 1 less ammo AND get a melee weapon (0 slot) thus decreasing the amount of ranged AND make it more fair for the melee infantry.

For lancers, this would be a great nerf, THEREFOR I say that we could make the couch-only lances 1 slot items.

I am also unsure about weather or not some of the lighter horses should be 0 slot too. Maybe let some, like the sumpter/rouncey/steppe/desert/paulfrey be 0 slot while the armoured/destrier/arabian/courser are 1?

About the buff of horses. Not sure if this is required. Just make the couch only weapons 1 slot and maybe the light lance and then it would be enough of a help for horsemen.

The reason I never made this myself is because of the random BS whine/insults that would come from a suggestion like this.

[Bulzur]

Horse bumping has absolutely no effect if you have body armor above 50

WOOT ? I got 53 body armor and loose quite a bit of hp when a courser or destrier bumps me. Not speaking of the overused armored horses.

[Elmokki]

In my opinion horsemen should have possibility to take at least the following setups that currently take 4 slots:

Bow + 2 sets of arrows + decent (1 slot) sidearm = currently 4
Lance + 1h + shield = currently 4

Slot system would remove both options. HAs going without a decent melee weapon or with only one stack of arrows I could understand, but nerfing that lancer setup I would be unable to understand.

If you want to balance horses, I believe you either need to revamp the equipment system enough to make 1 slot lances balanced (they'd be pretty good 1 slot spears for infantry if they were 1 slot) or you need to balance it by making cavalry characters sacrifice more for becoming cavalry.

EDIT: Also, seriously, current bump system is retarded. As 1h/shield infantry in 40ish body armor a lone armored horseman with a shield can just trample me a few times to get a kill. To survive I need to make perfect stabs with speedbonus to the horse a few times to get it down and then kill the unharmed rider who was just holding shield up before in infantry combat. Usually horsemen gladly don't risk their horses and if they're bad they can be jump-stabbed down which is also pretty ridiculous but effective if done succesfully. I do not have anything against 1h+shield being countered by horsemen to some extent, but I'd much rather have it with rider actually having skill to lance or slash me down instead of getting trampled over repeatedly

[Jarlek]

In my opinion horsemen should have possibility to take at least the following setups that currently take 4 slots:

Bow + 2 sets of arrows + decent (1 slot) sidearm = currently 4
Lance + 1h + shield = currently 4

Slot system would remove both options. HAs going without a decent melee weapon or with only one stack of arrows I could understand, but nerfing that lancer setup I would be unable to understand.

If you want to balance horses, I believe you either need to revamp the equipment system enough to make 1 slot lances balanced (they'd be pretty good 1 slot spears for infantry if they were 1 slot) or you need to balance it by making cavalry characters sacrifice more for becoming cavalry.

EDIT: Also, seriously, current bump system is retarded. As 1h/shield infantry in 40ish body armor a lone armored horseman with a shield can just trample me a few times to get a kill. To survive I need to make perfect stabs with speedbonus to the horse a few times to get it down and then kill the unharmed rider who was just holding shield up before in infantry combat. Usually horsemen gladly don't risk their horses and if they're bad they can be jump-stabbed down which is also pretty ridiculous but effective if done succesfully. I do not have anything against 1h+shield being countered by horsemen to some extent, but I'd much rather have it with rider actually having skill to lance or slash me down instead of getting trampled over repeatedly

Make the lesser horses (all light apart from arab and courser) be 0 slot and make the couch-only lances (they cant stab, even on ground) 1 slot. You want a heavy lance and backup weapon (polearm or 1h+shield), go light horse. You want a heavy horse, lance and backup weapon you get couch only. I think this balances the cav.

Also HA usually take Bow +3 stacks of arrows and then whine when they run out and the enemy wont "give" them a melee weapon. Now they can max take a bow and 2 stacks, meaning they can also get a 0 slot melee weapon.

[KaMiKaZe_JoE]

NERF CAV NERF CAV NERF CAV

But really, horses taking slots is singularly one of the most stupid fucking suggestions I've ever heard (no offense to OP). You're nerfing the rider, not the horse in this instance. When Mr. bundle of sticks-lancer is astride his great, winged death-machine he will still be capable of kicking all of your asses, regardless of whether he carries a fucking sword at his hip. This suggestion will only hurt HA's, who are already bleeding from the rectum, and thrower cav.

Nowadays the problem seems to be a large amount of elephant cavalry romping about the battlefield. That they're hard to kill is understandable, given their immense (IMMENSE) cost, however recently there have been SO MANY of them, probably as a result of their lowered riding requirement.

-Increase difficulty for plated death machines.

[PhantomZero]

WOOT ? I got 53 body armor and loose quite a bit of hp when a courser or destrier bumps me. Not speaking of the overused armored horses.

I don't really believe you.

[Lactose_the_intolerant]

idea already suggested, not implemented...

[ToxicKilla]

This is stoopid.
If a horse took 1 slot, then you couldn't have a proper knight loadout like I always do.

Sword- 1 slot
Shield- 1 slot
Lance- 2 slot
Long Dagger- 0 slot

I'd either have to take a lance or a sword. I'd take no horse.

*snip*

Nowadays the problem seems to be a large amount of elephant cavalry romping about the battlefield. That they're hard to kill is understandable, given their immense (IMMENSE) cost, however recently there have been SO MANY of them, probably as a result of their lowered riding requirement.

-Increase difficulty for plated death machines.

I think the actual reason for this may be people re-speccing once they reach level 26, and riding there plated death machines of doom every single round without having to worry about upkeep.
I used to have a champion charger, all it did was eat my cash and actually didn't get me any more kills per round because of it's slow speed and low turning speeds.

[Erathsmus]

It is starting to really feel like you guys do not want to debate about the ENTIRE proposal. I hear either one person reading, Buff, and flipping out about it, or one person reading Slot, and flipping out about it.

This entire idea would require a large change to the balancing of horse stats, but these suggestions are not entirely ludiscrous as many of you are proposing.

I have played quite a few horse class characters, I'm guessing around 20 or so, and probably over 100 infantry based classes. (I took heavy advantage of skip the fun back in the day) And I noticed that horse archers were ruined by this severe armor degradation to your aim. I also noticed that people on plated chargers didn't necesarrily have a consequence to them riding it OTHER than its cost. This cost not only made rich players extremely powerful, (due to they are the only ones who can afford this machine) but it also made it so that no new player can ever hope to ride one until they have played for 300+ hours.

As for this slot system ruining your build of lance, shield, sword. We can't have a horsemen running around on a plated charger with 2 shields turtled up on him and stomping around the whole damn place, that is just rediculous. There are many accounts where I see naked peasants riding a plated charger turtles up with shields....And let's face it, if I were new to this game and saw that crap, I would be discouraged from playing due to the sheer stupidity of it.

I understand many of you like to read 1 line and flip about it, but the goal  of this game is to have fun, and the system as I currently see is preventing players from using the full "fun" potential of horses.

Horse archers can finally look cool again with a little bit of armor, but they will have reduced quivers when using a higher rated horse (due to slots). Knights can no longer ride a tank, get the horse killed, and still be a death machine with all of their current equips that they had while mounted.

There needs to be an alternative consequence to riding a horse, other than the generic "it costs more so rich players can have fun." A class is not something you should have to require an alternate expense account for, and it should also not be a grandmaster class when it is aqcuired.

It's not like I have been playing this game for 20minutes, and I raged at horses, or liked horses or something. I just see that there is alot more potential for a balanced class, that can be playable to a more broad avenue of players.

These are not personally feeling towards horses, this is a response to the multiple horse balancing issues that have been going on for well over a year.