Author Topic: Change Lances  (Read 1155 times)

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Offline Lt_Anders

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Change Lances
« on: September 28, 2011, 08:35:24 pm »
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After having a talk about it, I was thinking of niching cavalry roles(for lancers).

So To start off this is only a viability discussion. Though I guess you can voice for or against.
Angle of attack of Lances: 40(I think that's the current)

Now Onto my changes, and reasoning.

First:
Great Lance
Increase length to 250
Decrease Speed to 50
Decrease Damage to 15p
Remove Couch
Add Crush Through.
Angle of attack: 30

Reasoning:
This weapon Should be an excellent  infantry killer. Trained Pike squads should be used on this horse master at all times. Though you gain killing power against nearly all infantry targets and unaware enemy cavalry, you will be beaten by professional pikeman, teams are ranged, Light cavalry, and Mounted Ranged. You can only attack targets directly in front of the horse with little deviation.
Intended Target(s): Enemy infantry, unaware or individual archers, short range pole users
Intended Enemy(s): Pike users, Clumped Archers, Nearly all other forms of cavalry

Heavy Lance
Length: Same
Remove Couch
Add Crushthrough
Angle of attack: 35
Decrease damage: 24p, 14b

Not as good against soft, 2 legged targets as the great lance, it makes up for it in the ability to fend off other cavalry. Professional Pikeman will never let you harm their squads, while light cavalry and most forms of ranged groups will make you hate life.
Intended Target(s): Enemy infantry, unaware or individual archers
Intended Enemy(s): Pike users, Clumped Archers, Nearly all other forms of cavalry

Lance
Length: Same
Damage: Same
Angle: Same
Keep Couch

Mainline Cavalry weapon, decent against all targets, but carries no major specialties. A jack of all trades weapon.
Intended Target(s): Any unaware non mounted unit
Intended Enemy(s): Any Aware Unit, Light Cavalry, Mounted Range

Light Lance
Length: 170
Damage: Same
Angle: 45
Keep Couch

A light cavalryman's weapon. Good against Other enemy cavalry, though lacking major pushing power against nearly all non mounted units.
Intended Target(s): All Cavalry, Engaged(unaware) Infantry
Intended Enemy(s): All Non mounted units, Mounted Range

Double Sided Lance
Length: same
Damage: Same
Angle: Old attack angles

Light cavalryman's premier weapon. Quick to strike, good damge and able to hit targets almost anywhere. Unfortunately lacking in the range department, and the heavy hitting capability of the other weapons.
Intended Target(s): All Cavalry, Archers, engaged infantry, Mounted Range
Intended Enemy(s): Pole, 2h.

So what do you think? DISCUSS!
« Last Edit: September 28, 2011, 09:40:53 pm by Lt_Anders »
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Offline Mizuk

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Re: Change Lances
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2011, 10:04:20 pm »
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Increase light lance speed to 90, that's all I want, oh and ban Leed so he stop raping me with his heavy lance.

Offline Eddy

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Re: Change Lances
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2011, 10:12:04 pm »
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im just laughing about the crush through thing 
but apart from that in my opion its ok ;)

Offline Lt_Anders

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Re: Change Lances
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2011, 10:58:49 pm »
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im just laughing about the crush through thing 
but apart from that in my opion its ok ;)

Disagree. What then would be the point of the Double Sided Lance being used? I guess the fact that it would have nearly full hit range and 32p would make it better.

The point of the post was Stratify Lances.
2 Anti inf options
1 allrounder
2 anti cav
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Offline Lactose_the_intolerant

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Re: Change Lances
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2011, 11:24:24 pm »
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First:
Great Lance
Increase length to 250
Decrease Speed to 50
Decrease Damage to 15p
Remove Couch
Add Crush Through.
Angle of attack: 30


LOL. I stopped reading after that.

I don't usually comment on cav nerf threads but in before you get all GK on your back

so wait, 15p? really? you do know that jousting lance has 23b and even the practice lance has 20b?
take off the couch? you do know its a couch only weapon right? so you suggests it gets thrusted?

i wont comment on the rest but dont you think your nerfing the lance values a tad to far?

you know whats makes difference in between a one shot lance kill and a regular lance hit? the speed. When I'm on my courser i do many one shot kills (well, i do have a triple loomed lance and triple loomed horse)
but when i ride my one time loomed cata horse i nearly never one shot (except peasent)

I wonder if you do know something about cav?

edit : oh and do not add crushthrough that would make lancing more powerful
« Last Edit: September 28, 2011, 11:28:08 pm by Lactose_the_intolerant »

Offline cmp

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Re: Change Lances
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2011, 11:26:50 pm »
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Having per-weapon angles: not possible.

Offline Lt_Anders

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Re: Change Lances
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2011, 11:38:24 pm »
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Having per-weapon angles: not possible.

Damn, that ruins a plus point i was hoping for.


(click to show/hide)

Why the low damage? with a slower weapon Speed bonus causes higher damage. That's why with that heavy lance(I assume you use) on the courser can 1 shot while the armored horse it can't. Also, the couch was removed to turn it into a thrust using weapon. It would be ment to be used against enemy infantry.  It's not imbalanced in the slightest. The heavy lance would be shorter, faster and better base damage, but could be countered with far more polearms than the modified great lance.

It's all a balancing act. Heavy lance is shorter so it gets some features, loses others. I attempted to balance all lances internally. (though the angle not being able to be implemented per weapon kinda ruins the third balance aspect i was hoping for.)
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Offline Sultan Eren

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Re: Change Lances
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2011, 11:44:55 pm »
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Lances should be for one time usage. After couching you must get it back from ground. And poke damage must be decreased.
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Offline justme

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Re: Change Lances
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2011, 11:52:10 pm »
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better put knockdown than crushthrough

Offline Lt_Anders

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Re: Change Lances
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2011, 11:54:21 pm »
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Lances should be for one time usage. After couching you must get it back from ground. And poke damage must be decreased.

You can do that with the tourny/jousting lances.
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Offline Sultan Eren

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Re: Change Lances
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2011, 11:57:24 pm »
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Offline Lt_Anders

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Re: Change Lances
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2011, 12:01:32 am »
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsSS5D7GCCM

Watch the whole parts.

Not disagreeing, but that's not the point of this thread, nor crpg. If that happened, then we'd need to rebalance ALL of the polearms in crpg to account. I'm just trying to Internally balance the lances so that you got lances for specific things.

As for the crush through, it'd only work if you were riding fast enough(like courser), or on flat land.
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Offline Lactose_the_intolerant

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Re: Change Lances
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2011, 12:05:53 am »
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no you dont need crushthrough and i believe loads of people will agree with me.
seriously i wouldnt want to, on foot, turn round to see coz i just heard a horse and find out there's this unblockable lance coming at me. and in cav duels...that would be nasty

Great lance needs some love i agree but i dont think it's the way to go.
and now your suggestions are invalid coz you cant change lance rotation per weapon  :|

Offline Lt_Anders

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Re: Change Lances
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2011, 12:10:05 am »
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no you dont need crushthrough and i believe loads of people will agree with me.
seriously i wouldnt want to, on foot, turn round to see coz i just heard a horse and find out there's this unblockable lance coming at me. and in cav duels...that would be nasty

Couching does the same thing.
You wouldn't use those lances in cavalry duels. That was the point of the internal balance. Those to lances would be shitty in cav duels.
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Offline Overdriven

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Re: Change Lances
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2011, 12:32:18 am »
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Meh I don't think there's any need to change the lances. The one thing I would like to see is the lance angle increased slightly. Not to what it originally was, but 40 isn't enough. Makes duelling other cav a bitch more than anything.

Great lance definitely needs some love. I think it should still only be couchable, but it needs some extra length. Right now it's just to short. I'd personally like to see more people pick it over the heavy lance. But it's not really a viable choice due to it's length being pretty crap against a lot of infantry and not making up for the couchable only.

Otherwise I think it's all fine and nothing really needs changing.