[POLL] CRPG is balanced

[Murmillus_Prime]

Throwing weapons to piss me off sometimes.. Especially as when I  go into foot combat I lash my long hafted blade out which makes me vulnerable to all range weapons, and this is true for most 2h and  polearm users. It's not just the fact that a throwing weapon is powerful that pisses me off and is the main issue people anti-throwing bring up, but some of the ways in which people are killed by them.

Ok somone with a 2h cuts your foot or leg, you could say irl they'd have it cut clean off and they'd die from bloodloss. Almost instant death, so ok that's easier to live with.

Somone with a throwing lance, throws a badly aimed shot at you but, o my lord it hit your foot, now say in rl, you got hit in the foot by a throwing lance, yeah your foot would be fucked, and you could die from an infection if the wound gets infected... but that would be a slow death... But in the mod, it's insta death!?!, hurt your finger? INSTA DEATH... That's probably the most annoying feature of throwing weapons, in my opinion anyway.

My second major gripe is when somone with a throwing lance at point blank range, where the model of their lance is touching your armour, is able to throw it under these circumstances and still achieve a deathblow, if I swing my hafted blade too close to some people it will bounce off harmlessly, and I think something similar could possibly make throwing lances a bit fairer to anyone on the recieving end of one.

[Tai Feng]

But I have to say that Cavalry is in quite the bad position overall right now.

That's only because it's not super-easy mode as it was. If you look at good players, they ALL have ridiculously high amount of kills, and rarely don't finish at #1 spot.

[Bensbane]

Said no. 2h always in the top of the board with very high Kill/death ratios. They O-S almost everybody, have heavy armors and run faster than a chettah.

Give the heavy armors a speed malus could be a good solution.

Also, throwers make a lot of damage but they are quite easy to avoid.

Archery could get a little tweak in arrows speed, they are clearly to slow, this results in a lot of TKs.

Horses are nearly useless,.. but that's my point of view.

[1slander]

Throwing weapons to piss me off sometimes.. Especially as when I  go into foot combat I lash my long hafted blade out which makes me vulnerable to all range weapons, and this is true for most 2h and  polearm users. It's not just the fact that a throwing weapon is powerful that pisses me off and is the main issue people anti-throwing bring up, but some of the ways in which people are killed by them.

Ok somone with a 2h cuts your foot or leg, you could say irl they'd have it cut clean off and they'd die from bloodloss. Almost instant death, so ok that's easier to live with.

Somone with a throwing lance, throws a badly aimed shot at you but, o my lord it hit your foot, now say in rl, you got hit in the foot by a throwing lance, yeah your foot would be fucked, and you could die from an infection if the wound gets infected... but that would be a slow death... But in the mod, it's insta death!?!, hurt your finger? INSTA DEATH... That's probably the most annoying feature of throwing weapons, in my opinion anyway.

My second major gripe is when somone with a throwing lance at point blank range, where the model of their lance is touching your armour, is able to throw it under these circumstances and still achieve a deathblow, if I swing my hafted blade too close to some people it will bounce off harmlessly, and I think something similar could possibly make throwing lances a bit fairer to anyone on the recieving end of one.

I feel like you are assuming all swings would be legendary.  Not all soldiers were insanely strong.  I mean those weopons were heavy, really heavy.  Swinging the weopon was a feat in itself if your absolutely exhausted from battle and still going strong.  I could see the point that a 2 hander would hack into someone hard, but a clean sweep of a limb?  You talk as though the attacker is a beheader at an execution.  Nothing is that easy.  Try getting in a fight and see how well your deadly punches do against an opponent with their fists cocked and swinging back.  How would a long and awkward 2 handed weopon fair differently?  It will glance, it will hit the body on angles.  Shit it would realistically be caught in shields alot - which I think they should add for realism.  Trying to say that getting hit by a throwing lance in the foot is a slow death - wtf?  That guy would probably be down for the count and just laying there amongst the battle being trampled.  Just my 2 cents

[Erika_Furudo]

That's only because it's not super-easy mode as it was. If you look at good players, they ALL have ridiculously high amount of kills, and rarely don't finish at #1 spot.

It is true that good players, even if they play an so called "underpowered" class can still get good amount of kills and be in the top five.
But I don't really want to call that for balanced just becouse of that.

It's like the people argueing about Starcraft, people don't really argue about balance, they pretty much argue about that x race is much easier to play as compared to the others. etcetera.

[1slander]

The minute people stop worrying about THEIR kills and start worrying about the TEAMS kills is the moment where you start getting multipliers.  There are support classes, there are damage classes, and their are tanks.  Imo its people like archers, throwers and cav that soften up the other team in those first few minutes.  Then the tanks and damage dealers move in and finish them off.

 Being a hybrid thrower I know I can't do either uber'ly but I can dish out some damage with those throwing axes and out of those 8 axes I would hope to hit a few people and at least cut their life in half so my teamates moving in (who won't give me room to throw now) for the KS can finish them.  Too many people play like it's a score game, it's more a team based game now than ever.  Instead of QQ'n about  archers or throwers why don't you stand back a little longer next time and let the ones on your team dish out some pain instead of screaming bloody murder because you jumped in front of a friendly throwing axe to try and get the finishing blow yourself.  If I'm having my shots blocked by team mates then my next option is switching to my 1 hander because the enemy will be too close by the time they cut through my overzelous team mates and now I'm playing gimp because I have 100 pts in throwing as well as a spread of skillz that deoesn't leave me shining against 2 hander spammers in droves at hand to hand combat.  Crying because your open to my axes when you swing?  That's epic - wow - what are you a dragon with one little scale missing we need to poke to kill you?  No shield - no service - Good luck cause I have 8 axes and they're all coming at you.

Play the game like a team member and you will start to see that you too have throwers and archers on your team.  Think about how you play the game and how you could play it in a different manner that would allow the team to win.  Score matters little past fleeting bragging rights before the next map - and even then - who really cares. 

[Erika_Furudo]

The minute people stop worrying about THEIR kills and start worrying about the TEAMS kills is the moment where you start getting multipliers.  There are support classes, there are damage classes,

(click to show/hide)

and their are tanks.  Imo its people like archers, throwers and cav that soften up the other team in those first few minutes.  Then the tanks and damage dealers move in and finish them off.

 Being a hybrid thrower I know I can't do either uber'ly but I can dish out some damage with those throwing axes and out of those 8 axes I would hope to hit a few people and at least cut their life in half so my teamates moving in (who won't give me room to throw now) for the KS can finish them.  Too many people play like it's a score game, it's more a team based game now than ever.  Instead of QQ'n about  archers or throwers why don't you stand back a little longer next time and let the ones on your team dish out some pain instead of screaming bloody murder because you jumped in front of a friendly throwing axe to try and get the finishing blow yourself.  If I'm having my shots blocked by team mates then my next option is switching to my 1 hander because the enemy will be too close by the time they cut through my overzelous team mates and now I'm playing gimp because I have 100 pts in throwing as well as a spread of skillz that deoesn't leave me shining against 2 hander spammers in droves at hand to hand combat.  Crying because your open to my axes when you swing?  That's epic - wow - what are you a dragon with one little scale missing we need to poke to kill you?  No shield - no service - Good luck cause I have 8 axes and they're all coming at you.

Play the game like a team member and you will start to see that you too have throwers and archers on your team.  Think about how you play the game and how you could play it in a different manner that would allow the team to win.  Score matters little past fleeting bragging rights before the next map - and even then - who really cares.

I guess that comment is directed towards me and Tai Feng.

Yeah ; The game is team based.
But there is still quite the diffrence between a <good> player with huge amount of kills than a random cavalry which just goes around killing the peasants every round and then goes and die against a random pike user.
Having this player on your team can be quite... reassuring.

[Bjarky]

yeah, i like the balance, i switched to cav from my 1h pre patch, witch is an challenge, but an good one, it really gets awsome when stuff just works in a round and you get to pick people of and help your teammate's who are in trouble.
but sometimes i get an tk in too, man thats annoying, but i always say sry and learn more as time goes.
i'm starting to like cav, even if your horse gets 1 shot sometimes, we just have to addapt and be more sneaky 

[Dach]

wtf happened to the 3rd option?!? 

3- Hate chadz... 

[Tristan]

I read a very eloquent quote on the forums one day about 'spam'
I cannot remember it word for word but it went something like this.

spam in CRPG is what happens when you don't block, attack, counter-attack, you're a low level, or your build entirely sucks the big one.

Check my sig. You'll also find the author and original thread

[Mattressi]

Said no. 2h always in the top of the board with very high Kill/death ratios. They O-S almost everybody, have heavy armors and run faster than a chettah.

I wish people would stop using the top-scorer builds as justification for their arguments. A really skilled, really high level level (with heirloomed gear) 2h will always do better than the same skill, level, gear thrower because the thrower has limited ammo. However, the thrower is an extremely easy way to play for people with no skill. On the Aus server we have lots of people who play as a thrower because they can't melee properly or as their 'stress relief' build. Most of them are getting high K/D ratios and saying things like "this is so fun; just run up to someone, aim and click the win button!". However, (if our server had more than 20 people on...ever) they will never be getting the most kills, because of the ammo limit. But they are essentially guaranteed (excepting bad luck or just being so bad that they can't even aim and click) a positive K/D.

For me, throwing is still OP (I have a thrower btw). One shot kills with lances, 1-2 shot kills with jarids make it a very easy build to play. And because all of the higher tier throwing weapon have 'bonus against shields', they are countered by nothing. I throw knives at archers who are far away and kill them, I throw jarids (lances if loomed huscarl) at turtles and throw anything at anyone else and I'm almost guaranteed a kill.

Also, decreasing the accuracy is no solution; it just means that throwers go from an easy way to play, to a play style that requires luck. Less accuracy just means you either need to get closer, or you need to rely on luck. I've headshot a few people with lances from very far away before. Pure luck. Is that balanced?? I feel the game should be balanced around skill - where skill determines the outcome. As it is, the mod is currently balanced a little around money, a little around limited ammo (read: limited number of easy kills) and skill.

I feel like you are assuming all swings would be legendary.  Not all soldiers were insanely strong.  I mean those weopons were heavy, really heavy.  Swinging the weopon was a feat in itself if your absolutely exhausted from battle and still going strong.  I could see the point that a 2 hander would hack into someone hard, but a clean sweep of a limb?  You talk as though the attacker is a beheader at an execution.  Nothing is that easy.  Try getting in a fight and see how well your deadly punches do against an opponent with their fists cocked and swinging back.  How would a long and awkward 2 handed weopon fair differently?  It will glance, it will hit the body on angles. 

Bloody hell! If you think 3 pounds is heavy, I feel sorry for you. The myth of 15 pound + weapon is a lie. Look it up. 1h, 1.5 h and 2 swords were all relatively lightweight and well balanced. Nothing awkward nor heavy about them.

[Bull]

Horses are nearly useless,.. but that's my point of view.

Garbage.

I said it's balanced, and I'm full cavalry.

That sentiment includes the atrocious amount of spam-throwers, archers, etc. taking shots at my horse from all sorts of angles. I don't know who said it, but those builds are fairly easy to avoid, if you'd pay attention.

I would hardly say I'm a "great" player, but I'm at least a decent cavarly. On an open map, I can really rack up the kills. I'd go so far as to say that it takes no more awareness and target-picking than it used to. It's the upkeep cost that has driven the majority of players away from a cav build, and I don't think that's a bad thing.

Anyway, love the new patch.

[Matey]

shouldnt have been a yes/no poll.
should been on a scale from 1-10 1 being horribly unbalanced and 10 being perfect.

id put it at about 7 right now. its good but theres tweaking to be done.

[kongxinga]

That's only because it's not super-easy mode as it was. If you look at good players, they ALL have ridiculously high amount of kills, and rarely don't finish at #1 spot.

What server is this that has usable cav maps are on 24/7? How does the cav player get top in a counterstrike map, especially archer box maps that force cav to dismount with stairs? Need to go play on this server.

[Xant]

Said no. 2h always in the top of the board with very high Kill/death ratios. They O-S almost everybody, have heavy armors and run faster than a chettah.

Give the heavy armors a speed malus could be a good solution.

Also, throwers make a lot of damage but they are quite easy to avoid.

Archery could get a little tweak in arrows speed, they are clearly to slow, this results in a lot of TKs.

Horses are nearly useless,.. but that's my point of view.

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