(Stats) Bows again determine type of damage, not arrows?

[Tears of Destiny]

they have kesh and ToD.. nuff said.. we have elite archers who almost never miss..

I dunno, I think i do pretty OK.

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[Bulzur]

they have kesh and ToD.. nuff said.. we have elite archers who almost never miss..

hummm.... chimp, birdman, where the best, and they were Eu. And Kesh... well... let him play a lv29 archer for a change, with no heirlooms. Not saying he's not good, he's definitely skilled, but...you get my point. Playing a 6athl archer in the NA world of Str is sure fun and easier to shoot down than eu's ninjas. Forget all thoses x3rusbow spammers, and i'd definitely say we have very good skilled archers in Eu. I'm saying this as an archer myself, so i guess i can judge them fairly.

Thing is, it's pretty hard to "compare" archers. Heirlooms, choice of bow, choice of how much PD, how to play (hunting cavalry, hunting peasants, hunting tincans, hunting average 2h, hunting shielders), with whom (fallen archer squad, solo ranger, spear+archer anti-cav squad), etc... So pretty hard to compare, imo.

Thing is, only a "few" archers abuse this close range shoot. And i see no reason "why" there shouldn't be a max time for holding your arrow. Realism : your arm will never be able to release any arrow if you hold max length string too long. Balance : when you get shot, you're stunned and loose all your speed, so the archer can "always" be out of range as long as he doesn't miss, wich happens rarely (if the opponent is without shield).  And getting 2shotted by an archer, at pointblank, after dodging dozens of arrows is always irritating, i guess.

[MrShine]

No point getting into a NA vs EU discussion.

If you are a shielder and don't bump the archer before swinging you're doing it wrong.  Also there would have to be a pretty massive athletics discrepancy for an archer to literally hold their attack and backpeddle and keep pace with an advancing shielder.  I've never seen an archer do that for a long period of time for obvious reasons (you can't see where you're going, you become an easy target for other archers, it isn't practical etc).

If you know how to wiggle it can be quite hard for an archer to hit someone even at close range.  It's the risk you take to be plugged for big damage close out on an archer if you engage them from the front though.

[Black Wind]

           
Excellent post, from unknown player, who probably doesn't know that my main is an archer, with a x3 bow, and two different sets of loomed arrows.
And who probably was never shotgunned by an archer, because he didn't survive the cavalry. Let's not make stupid theory about the other, shall we ? This will get us nowhere. I can dodge arrow pretty fine at midrange, even if 3 different archers shoot at me. But i clearly can't slash one, since they can shotgun you at pointblank. I would love to post the excellent "l2p" remark, since you did the same to me, but i don't know you, and i'm not as rude as you, so i won't.


I specifically loled at the bolded parts of the text. The first one, because it has NOTHING to do with my post. I'm pretty please with the fact that it's now the arrows that tell what sort of damage it does. The other one, because they're all completely false. 

Hope to shoot you down, if i ever see you. Unless you consider yourself as someone with way better dodging skills than Thomek, or others ninjas.

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I now have a reason to say "no" to Thomek when playing a "ninjalike" character... some really rude people outathere. Then again, he's probably NA, so i won't ever meet him.

I apologize if I caused offence, but when somebody calls for nerfs that aren't exactly fair, I get angry.

I didn't imply that you're a bad player, so I think there was a misconception? I'm not an EU player, so I don't know the scenario there.

[Bulzur]

I apologize if I caused offence, but when somebody calls for nerfs that aren't exactly fair, I get angry.

I didn't imply that you're a bad player, so I think there was a misconception? I'm not an EU player, so I don't know the scenario there.

I was maybe a bit offended.  And i also apologize for my zealous post.
Unlike you, though, i'm pretty sure archery needs a nerf. Or maybe it's just me who loved being one of the few remaining archers, thus feeling special, when there's now just so many, that don't even bother with headshots, since two bodyshots are enough.

I'll probably join NA, it's been a while since i've been there, and it's true that sometimes things are different. (for example the bec de corbin spam in na, but not in eu).

On another note, "thanks" to the new collision system, it has become way easier for archers to work together (since they can't shoot each other, unless they're... horrible) than melees, who really need that athletics to try to follow the guy without blocking his teammates attacks. And we also see a bit more teams of 4-5 archers sticking together. And since they "only" have to move to two different directions to shoot a shielder effectively, while staying on a mountain to not care about cav, it's a bit inconvenient that they "also" have such destructive power. Mind you, xbow tend to do the same (hello clan Sanglier, with scimitar+shield+crossbow xD ).

It's, strangely (or not) way easier (for me) to kill archers as an archer, than as a shielder.

[Bobthehero]

It's, strangely (or not) way easier (for me) to kill archers as an archer, than as a shielder.

Anyone else thinks that is wrong? As in archers shouldnt be the main counter to other archer?

[Gricks]

As an archer, cav are usually my main counter (I can just run away from most shielders). Seriously though, the majority of players play 2h/pole, and I think that's the problem. They have someone that can kill them without being able to do anything about it (aside from zigzagging which makes it really difficult to hit you). Most of the time archers don't top the charts, its the crutching two-handed players that one shot everything they look at or the cav.

Other than archers being annoying (2 hits-bullshit), I haven't seen a real argument against them. "OMG I CANTZ RAMBO THEM OR CATCH THEM IN A DUEL WTFFF" is not an argument. Use teamwork.

[Tot.]

Honestly speaking I never understood why archers are allowed to pull the string while moving. Makes no sense and allows playing as lone kiting archer. If you want to force us to use teamwork to kill you (like it is now) then you should be forced to use teamwork aswell, ie. have infantry protection while shooting, not just legolas-running around and not caring about anything but cavalry because noone can get you.

Revert damage to cut and remove ability to move while pulling the string. And maybe the battle will be playable again.

[MrShine]

Honestly speaking I never understood why archers are allowed to pull the string while moving. Makes no sense and allows playing as lone kiting archer. If you want to force us to use teamwork to kill you (like it is now) then you should be forced to use teamwork aswell, ie. have infantry protection while shooting, not just legolas-running around and not caring about anything but cavalry because noone can get you.

Revert damage to cut and remove ability to move while pulling the string. And maybe the battle will be playable again.

I would love to discuss this further but it needs to be properly moved into the realism discussion forum before I can troll about how we should implement your suggestion for bows as well as fatigue from swinging those big heavy 2 hand weapons around.

Archers already need to be with the team to be effective.  A lone archer is a dead archer in most cases, and they rely on their ability to move quickly to avoid being complete fodder when anyone gets near (not like most aren't already). 

Jump shot has already been removed, standing still when pulling string is too much of a nerf to gameplay.

[Gravoth_iii]

I dont mind bows piercing at all, makes my alt's shortbow much more effective. Rus bow might need a nerf but otherwise it is fine, ofcourse it sucks getting hit for 50% damage in one shot but i barely ever get shot anyways.

[Bobthehero]

I would love to discuss this further but it needs to be properly moved into the realism discussion forum before I can troll about how we should implement your suggestion for bows as well as fatigue from swinging those big heavy 2 hand weapons around.

2 handers are not heavy, people were trained back then, battles in cRPG are so short you wouldn't have time to get exhausted.

[FRANK_THE_TANK]

lvl 25 24str 8 IF Heraldic transitional, with shiny gaunlets of prettyness, against horn bow. I think the build was 18 21 or 24. I took 7 arrows and then some one killed him...

I've yet to see anything other than an arblest and throwing lance cause serious dmg from a few shots. 2 Throwing lances kills me and 2 - 3 arblest bolts.

I play an archer as well, the only problem I have is with the long bows delay where you loose accuracy before the release.

[Corwin]

I think that at the core of many misunderstandings lies the fact that things in EU and NA are different, and work differently.

On EU we have some coldblooded snipers with bows, such as Tenne, Nebun, Jambi, Pandor etc. Any of them is a murderous factor on every map, and almost in any situation. And I think that in whatever way they nerf/tweak archery, it wouldn't have that much impact on their scores.
At the same time, we have a lot of bundle of sticksry in form of dozen of unskilled archers camping a roof (sometimes so much that they are falling off from the roof), and machine gunning with tatar/horn bow with pierce damage.

Now, I don't play NA because of ping, but people I trust tell me that the situation is a lot different there, with much less bundle of sticksry and roof-camping.
I think that the best novelty you could possibly introduce in the mod would be possibility for infantry to burn down god damn houses once they reach them.

Also, I would ask anyone to pay heed to what Jambi said. He is as dedicated archer as they come, and if he says that something regarding archery is OP, I think it should be taken in consideration.

[Arrowblood]

We have a ton of elite archers.
more elite archers than elite melee.

[Digglez]

lvl 25 24str 8 IF Heraldic transitional, with shiny gaunlets of prettyness, against horn bow. I think the build was 18 21 or 24. I took 7 arrows and then some one killed him...

I've yet to see anything other than an arblest and throwing lance cause serious dmg from a few shots. 2 Throwing lances kills me and 2 - 3 arblest bolts.

I play an archer as well, the only problem I have is with the long bows delay where you loose accuracy before the release.

I've been 1 shot headshotted by hornbow using bodkins despite my Nordic Warlord Helm 48 armor & 65 HP....its stupid ridiculous that these puny uzi rate of fire bows can shoot right thru armor