[Cross-Clan EU Unit] The Cult of Mithras - Wednesdays at 18.30 UTC?

[Casimir]

The added derp factor also makes it cool

[Bjord]

Good luck with this, looks promising.

[Tristan]

Signed Gisbert up as skirmishing archer. He can has some alts as well if we need melee's.

[Tristan]

Signed Georges up as Polesupport.

[Tennenoth]

It's not so much "looking past" anything Trist, you're going to want people to be fully comfortable with how they play, knowing that they're going to work their best, nothing to do with whether or not you find something fun, it's to do with what is MOST EFFECTIVE. As my course revolves heavily around logical code & working project management to be as efficient as possible etc maybe I am slightly blind to why you want people to have regimented equipment but none the less, if you want to be the best that you can be as a squad then you're better off in my opinion, to be using stuff that you know and love, these days, in the age of upkeep & heirlooms, people will have already increased the effectiveness of their chosen armour beyond the capabilities of the proposed items, therefore giving them a distinct advantage both due to knowing how they work with that gear, and how much punishment they can deal and take, stopping them from doing such things, although it means that they will have to be more regimented, it'll detract from the overall experience gained from the participants, I don't mean experience as in character experience, I mean in terms of player advancement.

Please correct me if I am wrong but the purpose of this is to better peoples skills, I agree that although this would be mostly put into practice for strategus with set equipment, it's more than likely that the commanders will have selected gear that they know their "elites" will be most comfortable with albiet running with a theme or with slight alterations.
Looking at the Fallen for example, a lot of them wear the same stuff during both strategus battles & normal cRPG play, the Byzantines, mostly ran around in the same gear both in strategus & cRPG, us, the Caravan Guild, much the same thing, I say those three clans because it appears they're going to be the biggest participants of this little escapade.

This isn't debunking anything, this is constructive critisism and I know for a fact that you, Trist, enjoy debating and discussions anyway so no harm there, just another thing you can attempt to hold against me for use later on! ;)

EDIT: Sign me up you git, under "Expecting to attend" rather than a "Will attend no matter what" case. Cheers.

(click to show/hide)

Message to the Caravan Guild members -

No, I know I don't use too many of the management and leadership skills I am supposed to be learning/have into practice in my time in leadership. *Puts on his shades*

[Tristan]

I am going to focus on the fact that at strategus the equipment is very limited. That is why I actually believe you support my case when you point to fallens and byzantines.
By limiting equipment you get a more cohesive force.

The suggestion that is being debated currently is probably only one of many things to be tested.
Basically it is a matter of "If we were to train towards a certain item set in order to achieve greatest effect, which or what equipment would be best?"

[Tennenoth]

I am going to focus on the fact that at strategus the equipment is very limited. That is why I actually believe you support my case when you point to fallens and byzantines.
By limiting equipment you get a more cohesive force.

The suggestion that is being debated currently is probably only one of many things to be tested.
Basically it is a matter of "If we were to train towards a certain item set in order to achieve greatest effect, which or what equipment would be best?"

With regards to that I believe that it's completely open to interpretation, the "cohesive force" could work both ways, changing their normal equipment or something close to what they're used to will change their game play causing them to have to adapt, more than likely to a large degree in order to gain a cohesive state, while they may feel that because they have to rely on their buddies a little more, it'll make them work together better, but sometimes changing your gameplay causes things to be difficult in terms of "you'll never be as effective like this" because you've put so much practice in the other way.

On the otherhand, due to strategus, people will have a more limited set of equipment that they can work with, but it'll always run through a rule of thumb for different areas, and as I said previously, you'll always have the "elitists" asked what they would prefer to use so that they can be as effective as they possibly can, for example, if I employed Kinngrimm, I wouldn't go out and buy a shield that goes against his "I need defence & speed" (more or less balanced) shield type by giving him a fast but weak etc shield, nor would I give him a weapon that was a world away from what he would be used to, so something particularly slow. I hope you understand what I am saying here, in short, the smaller the adaptations that are needed to be made, the better things will work, I mean, I personally find wearing "Tribal Armour" rather annoying during strategus battles because it's too heavy for my build, it slows me down significantly and I would rather wear something lighter and be able to move.

In otherwords, I think as a compromise, instead of limiting it specifically to 1 set of equipment, you should have "several sets" of equipment, more work, but it'll allow for more diversity, covering more bases with regards to peoples preferences and therefore maximising the difference between having the players adapt but also allowing them to have some breathing space in what they can do.

I hope that makes things clear, it was just kind of spewing out of the end of my fingers with too many thoughts about this rushing around inside my head.

[Tristan]

I think we are closing in on each other.

And I would like to seperate it into Build and equipment - more specifically Build Function and Equipment Function.

Where we have to push some limits is the Build Function. In order to work as a group it requires you build to take a certain role in the unit.
Can a 1h/shielder occupy the same role as a pole/1h/shielder? To a certain degree, yet not quite as he would have problem fighting on the distance needed.
Alas, if a unit is to work, such as this we talked about, then the 1h/shielder must learn to use a spear or he will be useless for the group.
If then, you say, that the unit does not work, then we are back at zero: Basically that lining up and chargiing with whatever you got is best.
tl;dr: Not all builds fit in all functions of a unit. Specific functions are needed in a unit for it to work.

Now, as long as a player can fill out the build function, there is no need to be strict on specifics. I am quite sure that we will see a lot of different 1h/pole/shields tomorrow evening.
And maybe we'll see which one works the best, maybe we won't. Some will use awlpike, others light lance some warspear. Through this testing an obvious choice might shine through. Do not tell me, that a person who has trained with warspear cannot learn to use a light lance if it works better in a unit. A good example is Georges who will be using the long halberd thingy instead of pike. What will be the advantage of that? what is the disadvantage? etc. etc.

The way I see it, you are basically saying that the compromises, fighting in a unit forces you to take, does not make up for the cohesive fighting strength it provides?
And then we are back at the whole purpose of this Cult. Find out if formation fighting, with all those compromises that needs to be made, is worth the effort.

[Tristan]

We still need moar people.

[Tristan]

We're live tonight, but have room for more people. Sign-up!

[Teeth]

Can I sign up as a 1h? I understand from you roster you rather want hybrids? Or if I pack a polearm with me without wpf is that fine too? Also I lack a microphone as off now, I do have a top notch set of ears though.

[Tristan]

Show up, I am sure we'll have a role for you.

You could also roll a skip the fun char to use one of the builds mentioned in the thread.

[Mustikki]

i could use my 1h/pole shielder on the training

ps. i would also like to add, leave the speculating to the future and first get more familiar (training) with the bigger formation fighting.
- there we can see what really works and what doesn't.

pps. Who's teamspeak we are using? Could you post a proper info at first post.

[Tristan]

i could use my 1h/pole shielder on the training

Sounds good.

[Casimir]

Ye, can we get a time / place set in stone now?