Version 0.241

[Fips]

Re-read what he said, he isn't saying anything about the accuracy he has, which is effected by power draw, he is saying that the reticle doesn't stay at it's sweet spot for very long (it quite literally touches it and goes in my case with 6PD, minimum but it was always enough pre-patch) and it means that you have no time to get a decent shot off due to the fact that by the time you let go of the mouse button to even fire the bow, you've missed the sweet spot due to the delay of the bow firing. No matter how early you let go, even if you literally just click and release to draw the bow back, the sweet spot is missed.

I have to say that my findings back up what Gisbert has said here, having gotten over 3 years of bowmen experience between us, i'm pretty sure that something is amiss (no pun intended) although it's still perfectly viable to kill happily, it's just the fact that you can't make half decent mid range shots effectively without increasing the randomness that actually comes with firing.

Ah...ok. Thx for clearing that up. Didn't noticed anything like that with my horn bow.

@gisbert: Why shouldn't i? trololol

[Paul]

I know it's a waste of time but whatever.

Damage comparison between bodkin(+2p) and tatar(+5c) arrows against different armor:

- mundane longbow, mundane arrows
- 18 str, 120 active wpf, 6 PD
- point blank
- body shot

raw_damage:
bodkin -> 64p
tatar -> 72c

against x armor -> minimum damage | average damage | maximum damage

0 armor
bodkin: 58 | 61 | 64
tatar: 65 | 68 | 72

20 armor
bodkin: 38 | 46 | 54
tatar: 38 | 47 | 58

40 armor
bodkin: 24 | 33 | 45
tatar: 20 | 31 | 46

60 armor
bodkin: 13 | 23 | 37
tatar: 8 | 19 | 35

80 armor
bodkin: 5 | 15 | 30
tatar: 1 | 10 | 27

----------

- mundane tatar bow, mundane arrows
- 12 str, 150 active wpf, 4 PD
- point blank
- body shot

raw_damage:
prepatch(pp) bodkin -> 49c
bodkin -> 43p
tatar -> 48c

against x armor -> minimum damage | average damage | maximum damage

0 armor
pp bodkin: 44 | 47 | 49
bodkin: 38 | 41 | 43
tatar: 43 | 45 | 48

20 armor
pp bodkin: 22 | 29 | 37
bodkin: 22 | 28 | 35
tatar: 21 | 28 | 36

40 armor
pp bodkin: 7 | 16 | 27
bodkin: 10 | 18 | 27
tatar: 7 | 15 | 27

60 armor
pp bodkin: 0 | 7 | 19
bodkin: 1 | 10 | 21
tatar: <0 | 6 | 19

80 armor
pp bodkin: <0 | 1 | 13
bodkin: <0 | 4 | 15
tatar: <0 | 0 | 12

The difference in performance between cut and pierce missle damage isn't that big.
Keeping in mind that bodkin arrows have a lower ammo count and cost a lot to maintain with the increased arrow break chance, taking bodkins isn't a must. Even against well armored targets pre patch and post patch bodkins perform not very differently.

[OttomanSniper]

Target distance is effective on damage.

[dregh94]

I must download it yes or no? :

[Gisbert_of_Thuringia]

Paul what does this have to do with what we wrote about?^^


@Fips:  >.<

[Paul]

Nothing, I don't care what you wrote. I just wanted to clear up some superstition concerning archery. I try to fight it with spreading knowledge. But as I said, a waste of time.

[Gisbert_of_Thuringia]

Ah.
I thought that's an answer on the few posts before^^  Was confused because we were talking about bows, not arrows.


Well, but thanks for writing down how much dmg is be done at what kind of armour .)

[Leshma]

Those are some pretty high numbers you got there. Nerfing archery would be reasonable thing to do but we all know you're not reasonable

[Gisbert_of_Thuringia]

Those are some pretty high numbers you got there. Nerfing archery would be reasonable thing to do but we all know you're not reasonable

Please what?

Get the numbers for melee before suggesting such stuff :O

[Phalanx300]

Why is the world round?

Swordmasters were to proof themselves against people who mastered the spear. In a duel. So far for smartass comment. 

Just saying the Long Spear is now: A Spear. We have a Pike. I think the Longspear and the Pike should be able to attack both ways  (according to new animations). Pike is useless in 1 on 1 anyways. Why nerf something which doesn't need to be nerfed? If you got killed by someone using a spear in a duel then you got outclassed. And in more then one on one. Why exactly should a spear be nerfed in this situation? Or any other weapon..

Just Trololol nerf being suggested.

[Gisbert_of_Thuringia]

Pike is useless in 1 on 1 anyways.

   Ever been on servers with some guys who know how to fight with a pike with all that spinaround thingy?


Reading your comment my question is answered immediately I think

[Leshma]

Please what?

Get the numbers for melee before suggesting such stuff :O

I need same amount of hits to kill 60 armor guy using best 2H sword with 6 PS. Or you're saying that you my old friendcher guys should do more damage.

We have to actively engage in a fight, you know. Not just pew pew from distance

[Teeth]

(click to show/hide)

I know it's a waste of time but whatever.

Damage comparison between bodkin(+2p) and tatar(+5c) arrows against different armor:

- mundane longbow, mundane arrows
- 18 str, 120 active wpf, 6 PD
- point blank
- body shot

raw_damage:
bodkin -> 64p
tatar -> 72c

against x armor -> minimum damage | average damage | maximum damage

0 armor
bodkin: 58 | 61 | 64
tatar: 65 | 68 | 72

20 armor
bodkin: 38 | 46 | 54
tatar: 38 | 47 | 58

40 armor
bodkin: 24 | 33 | 45
tatar: 20 | 31 | 46

60 armor
bodkin: 13 | 23 | 37
tatar: 8 | 19 | 35

80 armor
bodkin: 5 | 15 | 30
tatar: 1 | 10 | 27

----------

- mundane tatar bow, mundane arrows
- 12 str, 150 active wpf, 4 PD
- point blank
- body shot

raw_damage:
prepatch(pp) bodkin -> 49c
bodkin -> 43p
tatar -> 48c

against x armor -> minimum damage | average damage | maximum damage

0 armor
pp bodkin: 44 | 47 | 49
bodkin: 38 | 41 | 43
tatar: 43 | 45 | 48

20 armor
pp bodkin: 22 | 29 | 37
bodkin: 22 | 28 | 35
tatar: 21 | 28 | 36

40 armor
pp bodkin: 7 | 16 | 27
bodkin: 10 | 18 | 27
tatar: 7 | 15 | 27

60 armor
pp bodkin: 0 | 7 | 19
bodkin: 1 | 10 | 21
tatar: <0 | 6 | 19

80 armor
pp bodkin: <0 | 1 | 13
bodkin: <0 | 4 | 15
tatar: <0 | 0 | 12

The difference in performance between cut and pierce missle damage isn't that big.
Keeping in mind that bodkin arrows have a lower ammo count and cost a lot to maintain with the increased arrow break chance, taking bodkins isn't a must. Even against well armored targets pre patch and post patch bodkins perform not very differently.

Damn, didn't know archery was powerful. Anyway, seems like you did a very good job at balancing this. Thanks for supplying this data, most interesting.

EDIT: Ofcourse this is at point blank, is damage reduction due to range signifant or is it just a wee bit?

[Phalanx300]

  Ever been on servers with some guys who know how to fight with a pike with all that spinaround thingy?


Reading your comment my question is answered immediately I think

I'm talking about the Pike. Not the Longspear. The Longspear has a disadvantage anyways against Two handers. Why should a weapon be nerfed because some experts with a weapon can kill other people..?

[Leshma]

Who cares about long spear. It's a support weapon, meant to kill horses not to be dueling weapon...