Author Topic: End this STR madness  (Read 18576 times)

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Offline The_Bloody_Nine

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Re: End this STR madness
« Reply #225 on: October 18, 2011, 12:05:19 pm »
0
Ok, what do you understand under an agi-build. If you mean something like 3/36 or 6/33 then in my opinion its good that str builds are superior to agi builds. An extreme agi build should be able to run and move extreme fast, but if it had any other advantages it would be horrible.

And want i meant was that a str-build is not superior over an build like 18/24 or 15/24. The advantage of better movement speed (and within mobility in battle, better footwork, better "choose were to fight", etc.) outweighs things like more hp, more damage and higher armour.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2011, 10:55:03 pm by The_Bloody_Nine »

Offline Xant

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Re: End this STR madness
« Reply #226 on: October 18, 2011, 12:12:40 pm »
+4
the biggest disadvantage of strength builds is that they are horribly, horribly boring.
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Offline Vibe

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Re: End this STR madness
« Reply #227 on: October 18, 2011, 12:13:10 pm »
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Ok, what do you understand under an agi-built.

*
*
24/15 STR
21/18 Balanced
18/21 Balanced
15/24 AGI
*
*

The advantage of better movement speed (and within mobility in battle, better footwork, better "choose were to fight", etc.) outweighs things like more hp, more damage and higher armour.

STR builds can have good footwork too, they can choose where to fight just as AGI can, but maybe with a bit more planning ahead. AGI speed certainly does not outweigh the advantages that STR builds get.

Offline Gurnisson

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Re: End this STR madness
« Reply #228 on: October 18, 2011, 12:14:02 pm »
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the biggest disadvantage of strength builds is that they are horribly, horribly boring.

And you never die in a fair duel, only by ganking. :(
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Offline rustyspoon

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Re: End this STR madness
« Reply #229 on: October 18, 2011, 01:41:33 pm »
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the biggest disadvantage of strength builds is that they are horribly, horribly boring.

^this. 100 times this. That's why all my builds are relatively balanced nowadays.
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Offline Zisa

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Re: End this STR madness
« Reply #230 on: October 18, 2011, 07:33:32 pm »
+3
Ok, what do you understand under an agi-built. If you mean something like 3/36 or 6/33 then in my opinion its good that str builds are superior to agi builts. An extreme agi built should be able to run and move extreme fast, but if it had any other advantages it would be horrible.

And want i meant was that a str-built is not superior over an built like 18/24 or 15/24. The advantage of better movement speed (and within mobility in battle, better footwork, better "choose were to fight", etc.) outweighs things like more hp, more damage and higher armour.
I think the point eludes you.
You can have 3 agility, which will work.
12 is better for 4 athletics but still a STR heavy build
1 wpf ( but you can put in what, 120 for free by level 31?)
Agi build - put in 6 WM for a whopping 156 wpf at lvl 31 - underwhelming!
lots of PS, more hitpoints from STR, even use IF.
Hmm.. does PS still seem to affect speed of weapon?

Coupled with overly generous heirloom benefits to armor the str build does get more advantages.

As soon as agi build wears enough armour to offer protection from arrows and horse bumps (and FF) they get slower, effectively nullifying the benefits of agility!
Light armour means some loomed archer can one shot your agility build. Heavy armour STR builds need to be very unlucky while wearing armour to get one shotted by an archer.

Don't make me go on.
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Offline The_Bloody_Nine

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Re: End this STR madness
« Reply #231 on: October 18, 2011, 10:58:21 pm »
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I still think strength-builds are not that superior, but I can't proof it.   :|

Offline Tydeus

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Re: End this STR madness
« Reply #232 on: October 19, 2011, 02:44:06 am »
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I still think strength-builds are not that superior, but I can't proof it.   :|
Unfortunately in the world of game balance "feelings" and "thoughts" are meaningless without a logical backing.
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Offline The_Bloody_Nine

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Re: End this STR madness
« Reply #233 on: October 19, 2011, 10:04:38 am »
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Of course. But stating mere thoughts or feelings can be very useful as well for example to initiate other direction of the discussion.

Honestly, I'm a bit too lazy to back up my opinon but it roughly comes down to two points:

1. I'm done with playing strength-builds so it won't bother me if they get nerfed or what.

2. Like I said the value of athletics is underestimated by you guys. In the hands of the right players it has equal advantages as strength build, IMO. Problem, how to measure the value of athletics that i mean? Perhaps Urist can come up with some useful stats?

--> go on, try a proposed change, but I fear if its not very very subtle agi-builds soon get far superior.

Offline Zisa

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Re: End this STR madness
« Reply #234 on: October 19, 2011, 04:44:56 pm »
+1
Of course. But stating mere thoughts or feelings can be very useful as well for example to initiate other direction of the discussion.

Honestly, I'm a bit too lazy to back up my opinon but it roughly comes down to two points:

1. I'm done with playing strength-builds so it won't bother me if they get nerfed or what.

2. Like I said the value of athletics is underestimated by you guys. In the hands of the right players it has equal advantages as strength build, IMO. Problem, how to measure the value of athletics that i mean? Perhaps Urist can come up with some useful stats?

--> go on, try a proposed change, but I fear if its not very very subtle agi-builds soon get far superior.
Possible because agi builds got over nerfed way back when. Lot of str stackers whined and poof agi became a useless stat suitable for archers, horseman and other lesser classes. (remember bonus to weapon speed for agility?)
No chance you can convince me otherwise, as I'll probably be more effective in melee with a 1 wpf thrower and loads of PS than an agi build with the debatable benefits of weapon master, and athletics hindered by terrain and armour.
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Offline Paul

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Re: End this STR madness
« Reply #235 on: October 19, 2011, 05:22:12 pm »
+4
THERE WAS NEVER BONUS WEAPON SPEED FROM AGI.

Offline Jarlek

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Re: End this STR madness
« Reply #236 on: October 19, 2011, 06:16:38 pm »
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THERE WAS NEVER BONUS WEAPON SPEED FROM AGI.
I KNOW! I TRIED TO SAY SO! (although it was in M&B 1 if I remember correctly.)
This game isn't about being skillful as much as its about saying things in general chat that enrage people who then go to murder you but in their rage they make dumb mistakes which gets them killed.
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Offline Zisa

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Re: End this STR madness
« Reply #237 on: October 19, 2011, 06:39:03 pm »
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PUT ONE IN THEN
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Offline Tears of Destiny

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Re: End this STR madness
« Reply #238 on: October 19, 2011, 06:44:50 pm »
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THERE WAS NEVER BONUS WEAPON SPEED FROM AGI.

DON'T WORRY EVERYONE WILL FORGET THIS IN A FEW DAYS!
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Offline Jarlek

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Re: End this STR madness
« Reply #239 on: October 19, 2011, 08:35:39 pm »
+1
DON'T WORRY EVERYONE WILL FORGET THIS IN A FEW DAYS!
WTF YOU TALKING ABOUT!?!?!?

ALSO AGI INCREASES WEAPON SPEED YOU ARE ALL SO DUMB LUL!
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