End this STR madness

[zagibu]

simply cause they can take half a dozen or more heavy hits from a hard hitting 2h or polearm, whilst killing non-str builds in 1-3 hits reliably with anything.

I have loomed milanese plate, loomed plate mittens and 10 IF and I can not take half a dozen hits from hard hitting 2h or polearm. I don't know where you got that from, but it's not true.

I also don't see how str builds are overpowered compared to balanced builds. It's true though, that agi builds are underpowered. Balanced builds are hitting harder and swinging/running fast enough. I don't see how to rebalance that without making agi spam ninjas a big problem again. The only thing that could make agi builds useful again would be a stamina system coupled to item weight, but there is a big opposition against that.

[Vibe]

No.

To clarify, you greatly underestimate athletics.

I don't. I know agi builds and their high athletics are still very viable if you use them right. I'm just pointing out that STR builds get more benefits. But this thread is not about agi/ath as much as it is about how useless Weapon Proficiency is.

[Vodner]

I'm playing a strength build for the first time ever, and it is hilarious how much easier it is compared to the balanced builds I usually play.

I can take 4-8 hits from 1h / non-str builds, and I usually 2-3 hit everybody (except other str builds).

I would really just like to see the effectiveness of armor and IF reduced. I feel that player skill would play a much bigger role if everybody died in 2-4 hits.

[Thucydides]

I'm playing a strength build for the first time ever, and it is hilarious how much easier it is compared to the balanced builds I usually play.

I can take 4-8 hits from 1h / non-str builds, and I usually 2-3 hit everybody (except other str builds).

I would really just like to see the effectiveness of armor and IF reduced. I feel that player skill would play a much bigger role if everybody died in 2-4 hits.

are you using the glaive? you cheapo

[Vodner]

are you using the glaive? you cheapo

Glaive, poleaxe, LWA, bec, and long bardiche, with the occasional bout of awlpike, warspear, and shortened spear usage (I like variety).

Edit:
I really, really like variety:

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[DarkFox]

I am using this build with cheap shield, light armor and scimitar
Strength: 12
Agility: 27
Skills to attributes: 8
Ironflesh: 1
Power Strike: 4
Shield: 6
Athletics: 9
Weapon Master: 3
One Handed: 130
and I am doing really well, always have positive kd and from time to time in top. So no, I dont understand why people use str builds.

[Thucydides]

Glaive, poleaxe, LWA, bec, and long bardiche, with the occasional bout of awlpike, warspear, and shortened spear usage (I like variety).

Edit:
I really, really like variety:

(click to show/hide)

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

haha you just listed what 95% of all polearmers use. if you really want to gimp yourself you should try using the unbalanced polearms or the iron staff. Iron staff is probably the best polearm dueling weapon out there.

I do enjoy the poleaxe though, its incredibly versitile and you can actually feint with it!

[Snoozer]

to me it seems the only option is 2h for agil builds......i have tried very hard agil with poles its just not liable you cant rally use anything thats effective. and personally str builds can go fuck them selves i dont mind bashing them a couple times and say im agil crutching and im a noob when there in full pl8 str crutching

personally i would like to see more of the pole inventory more available to agil builds but the only way right now to be effective is to have 15 or 18 str or forever be damn to only use  war spear/tassle/qstafff/iron staff

BUT TO TOPIC

maybe their be a maximum limit for wpf per weapon master???so if the want to be str they would have to be slow due to the fact they have no weapon master

[ArchonAlarion]

I'd like wpf to matter even less beyond 100 points, to increase the usefulness of hybrids, who are already limited with the slot system and repair costs. Make more polearms and twohand flagged as unsheathable. Decrease the amount of damage bonus STR gives per level too.

Decreasing the movement speed penalty and wpf penalty on armor (increasing price respectively) may indirectly buff agi builds, also.

[Matey]

reducing armour penalties on speed would just speed up all the tin cans... the agi guys dont wear heavy shit as is. Buff athletics and buff WM/wpf

[Bulzur]

Athletics is indeed very usefull, but once you have 4 WM, even if you have 24 agi, it's better to have 4 IF, than 4 more WM. The difference in weapon speed is hardly noticeable, while having 8+ health can just let you survive this damn MW Arbalest body shot.


Anyway, i did a 24/15 longspear build once, and it was definitely worth it. Eu tend to have more Agi based build, because people having heirloomed 3 times gloves and body armor (and helmet ?), can still survive relatively well with a 15/24 build, and still do damage. But Str still has the upperhand.

[Thomek]

Flatten the wpf curve completely.

It would suck for Hybrids, but perhaps there should be a setting in stead with different curves.

If you plan to use 2 different weapon prof stats, you use the current curve, if you choose 1 it gets flat. If you choose 3 perhaps another one again.

Another solution is to nerf the free wpf you get per level, and channel it into wpm in stead.

[San]

Yes, that rant about armor looms is a bit offtopic. HP suggestion might not actually fix the problem. The emphasys is on the WPF change. Something MUST be done with WPF, it just can't be useless like this.
Feel free to suggest your own ideas on how to make WPF matter more.

-Change the wpf curve to be less arbitrary for 140-180 area
-Do something innovative with speed bonus and/or Make us able to see speed bonus on screen when we hit for our character when we hit/get hit
-Increase acceleration (but not top speed) on athletics (at the cost of nerfing backpedaling or else it'll be too strong to move in and out)

[Phew]

Just give agi/wpf more passive bonuses, so agility actually makes people more, ya know, agile:

-increases maximum turn/spin speed (right now you can do a mid-air lolstab 360 in plate and 3 agi)
-increase block/stagger/'blockstun' recovery speed
-increase feint window
-increase chamber window
-reduce fall damage
-increase jump height/reduce 'jump snare' after landing

Just some ideas. Don't nerf str, just improve agi

[Vibe]

I am using this build with cheap shield, light armor and scimitar
Strength: 12
Agility: 27
Skills to attributes: 8
Ironflesh: 1
Power Strike: 4
Shield: 6
Athletics: 9
Weapon Master: 3
One Handed: 130
and I am doing really well, always have positive kd and from time to time in top. So no, I dont understand why people use str builds.

Indeed, but the main difference between you and other people is that you're actually skilled. If a random rookie would use a build with 27 agi he would probably get smashed to bits. Instead it's just a LOT easier to go STR.