End this STR madness

[Vibe]

STR builds with low WPF are way too viable at the moment. Something needs to be done with either agi or str builds.
STR builds with loomed/heavy armor are even worse, due to their high hp.

Let's think on that.

STR builds get:
+ more hp
+ more damage
+ less glancing
+ ability to wear heavier armor/use crushthrough
- lower run speed
o less WPF, but not that it matters anyway

AGI builds get:
+ higher run speed
- less hp
- less damage
- more glancing at angles
- cannot wear the heaviest armor
o more WPF, but not that it matters anyway


You will find suggestions on how to change this in the posts of this thread.

[San]

I am a strength build and I agree that something should be done. I like both suggestions.
I think altering the wpf curve would probably be more worthwhile than HP decrease, but it will be more complex, and harder to do correctly.

I think armor heirlooms may be a problem, but I can't really say because I don't have them myself so I'm not really well versed in them.

[Vibe]

Yes, that rant about armor looms is a bit offtopic. HP suggestion might not actually fix the problem. The emphasys is on the WPF change. Something MUST be done with WPF, it just can't be useless like this.
Feel free to suggest your own ideas on how to make WPF matter more.

[Thucydides]

i'd rather they buff Agi builds rather than nerf str builds. Give more bonus to WM so that agi builds can hybrid better and more effectively. Or make it so that every 2 WM you get one extra skill point to spend in whatever (makes it easier for archers and throwers to melee and gives agi melee more opportunity to use shields, riding, or throwing etc.)Agi build should be more versatile but weaker than a str build.

[Vibe]

i'd rather they buff Agi builds rather than nerf str builds. Give more bonus to WM so that agi builds can hybrid better and more effectively. Or make it so that every 2 WM you get one extra skill point to spend in whatever (makes it easier for archers and throwers to melee and gives agi melee more opportunity to use shields, riding, or throwing etc.)Agi build should be more versatile but weaker than a str build.

This is actually not a bad suggestion. But the fact remains, you don't really need much WPF to hybrid these days, it's more about reducing repair cost only. This would work well if they made WPF matter though.
I don't mind leaving STR builds intact in this matter then.

[Thucydides]

This is actually not a bad suggestion. But the fact remains, you don't really need much WPF to hybrid these days, it's more about reducing repair cost only. This would work well if they made WPF matter though.
I don't mind leaving STR builds intact in this matter then.

i agree, at this time i can create a 0 wm 27/12 build and i still have 101 wpf, which is still useful. But wpf is pretty stupid, only matters in low speed weapons, but turning into your attacks means that skilled players don't need wpf, since they can generate their own speed bonus.

[Diomedes]

Perhaps slightly reduce the wpf per strength level (-10%?) and make the health increase +1 per 2 levels.

[Thucydides]

why don't we make WPF a requirement along with "strength" in the usage of a weapon, where if you don't meet the threshold of the weapon you get a penalty for usage?

[Kafein]

Play on EU and ask for str/agi balance.

You'll get a ton of 18/21 and 15/24. 18/21 being the 2h, and 15/24 being the xbowmy old friends.

Wpf does matter. Not for 2h that much, but for shielders (not 1h without shield) and swing polearms, it is important.

[Vibe]

Play on EU and ask for str/agi balance.

You'll get a ton of 18/21 and 15/24. 18/21 being the 2h, and 15/24 being the xbowmy old friends.

Wpf does matter. Not for 2h that much, but for shielders (not 1h without shield) and swing polearms, it is important.

EU has not matured and turned into NA yet, that's why it still has agi builds. And no, WPF doesn't really matter that much. It should matter more. You get a lot more benefits by going STR.

Perhaps slightly reduce the wpf per strength level (-10%?) and make the health increase +1 per 2 levels.

Not a bad suggestion either, but wpf reduction per str level won't matter until WPF itself starts to matter more.

[Argoth]

My 24-12 shielder build, would get destroyed by 15-21 shield agi builds, they were too fast for me.

[[ptx]]

Shielders are probably the only melee class that still needs high AGI to be viable. Sure, you can be fancy and effective against lightly armored/peasant enemies with a balanced/agi build, but when people are running around in heavy armor, even mediocre players with FULL STR builds tend to top scoreboards, simply cause they can take half a dozen or more heavy hits from a hard hitting 2h or polearm, whilst killing non-str builds in 1-3 hits reliably with anything.

[Vibe]

Shielders are probably the only melee class that still needs high AGI to be viable.

This is very true. Agi is still useful for shielders, especially those with picks/hammers, but that's pretty much it.

[Diomedes]

There's certainly a place for agi build 2h though.  Zanthos has loads of agility and wpf (172 or something wacky) and can steamroll most players.  That said, he could likely do it without the agility but with it he just "dances around them."

I'm a STR-heavy 1-hander and I can say from experience that it's easily my most effective build for a swordsman.  I find that the extra hitting force is generally needed, especially since the recent buff for armour against cutting blows.

[Siiem]

No.

To clarify, you greatly underestimate athletics.