Remove the ladders from Battle please. POLL

[Tzar]

This is the problem imho.

Just by bringing a ladder, ranged can render 2/3 of the playerbase completely useless, while still being able to stay effective themselves.

The whole concept of having access to "unreachable" places seems flawed to me - imagine if it was the other way around:


- Curses! The enemy hath brought archers to the field!

- What should we do m'lord?

- Bring out the RainbowRepellant 25-1-D

- The what?

- The RainbowRepellant! You know that little device for 2000 gold that makes all melee users on your team immune to ranged. Best of all, it automatically detects all forms of rangedbundle of sticksry and will block all melee attacks from anyone weilding a ranged weapon aswell. You're completely immune to them!

- Oh... Cooleth m'lord...


Srsly tho, I have to agree with whoever suggested that if the ladder is destroyed, the archers should be forced to go down.

Best thing would be an automatic system:

Ladder destroyed, ladder destroyed! Commencing ladderpulting of all archers in 3... 2... 1...

 

You sir are a genius someone hire this man 

[Phazey]

Im all for archers having some kind of protection from infantry & cavalry, but roof-camping houses that are not supposed to be camped in the first place, is not it. Take the native maps, most of them have places where range can stand and shoot at other players with some protection. IE high-ground, staircases, roofs with built-in-ladders. These are fine.
 
Whats not fine, is facing roof-campers with no possible retaliation against them, until everyone else on their team is dead.

Well, i agree with that. I also think the unreachable roof camping is annoying and questionable. But i don't agree that the fix is to remove the ladders from battle mode.

Instead, i would suggest ladders should have much more hitpoints or be (almost) immune to friendly fire, thus making it hard or impossible to create unreachable spots.

That, or maybe change the rules so that camping unreachable spots is not allowed.

Either way, i think there are options to keep ladders in battle mode and still do something about the excessive unreachable roof camping.

However, Punisher suggested that it would be better to remove ladders from battle mode and add some sort of deployable anti-cav spikes. Maybe that would be cool. I'm not sure.

I would just hate to lose having the option to bring a ladder to some maps. I hate the unreachable roof camping, but i love having a ladder to assault some of the more biased village maps.

[Turkhammer]

Actually, not really a bad idea.

The obvious 'problem' then becomes this: enemies can just run to the ladder, swiftly destroy it in two or three blows and then hide and demand the roofcampers come down.

But... that's actually not that bad... is it? Roofcamping allowed if the roof is reachable... that way the roofcampers must try to keep their ladder intact instead of making it attractive for them to destroy it.

What do we think guys? What would happen if roofcamping was not allowed unless the roof is reachable?

How do you enforce it with out admins babysitting it?

[Turkhammer]

This is the problem imho.

Just by bringing a ladder, ranged can render 2/3 of the playerbase completely useless, while still being able to stay effective themselves.

The whole concept of having access to "unreachable" places seems flawed to me - imagine if it was the other way around:


- Curses! The enemy hath brought archers to the field!

- What should we do m'lord?

- Bring out the RainbowRepellant 25-1-D

- The what?

- The RainbowRepellant! You know that little device for 2000 gold that makes all melee users on your team immune to ranged. Best of all, it automatically detects all forms of rangedbundle of sticksry and will block all melee attacks from anyone weilding a ranged weapon aswell. You're completely immune to them!

- Oh... Cooleth m'lord...


Srsly tho, I have to agree with whoever suggested that if the ladder is destroyed, the archers should be forced to go down.

Best thing would be an automatic system:

Ladder destroyed, ladder destroyed! Commencing ladderpulting of all archers in 3... 2... 1...

 

Bring more archers and shoot them off the roof.  They are pretty exposed up there. 

[Gorath]

Bring more archers and shoot them off the roof.  They are pretty exposed up there.

High ground.  Advantage.  Coorelation.  Military strategy.  Check it out.

[Phazey]

How do you enforce it with out admins babysitting it?

Well, we got plenty of admins and already enforce all kinds of rules. For example, we now enforce the rule that it's not allowed to camp an unreachable spot as the last player(s) alive.

So yes, admins will have to babysit, but hey... that's nothing new now is it? We gotz plenty of admins

[Peasant_Woman]

Make ladders immune to friendly fire in Battle only, Siege/stronghold can keep the ladderpults. You placed a ladder wrongly? Tough, better hope the enemy destroy it. Change the server rules so that if enemies destroy a ladder that made a roof acessible, the players up there don't have to come down if they don't want to. There was a ladder and you destroyed it, bad luck chum.

Maybe go a step further and at the 2 minute mark a medium ladder should spawn for both teams at thier spawn, so even if there is no way up there will be if your team can hold out for a while.
Because archers having to jump down or face a kick/ban because enemies destroyed the only way up is crazy.

[Phazey]

Another thought i had on this:

If a ladder gets destroyed, make an undeployed ladder spawn on the ground below it.

That way, destroying the ladder forces attackers to redeploy the ladder and try again. No more unreachable roofs!

(not sure if it's technically viable to implement this, though)

[Babelfish]

Another thought i had on this:

If a ladder gets destroyed, make an undeployed ladder spawn on the ground below it.

That way, destroying the ladder forces attackers to redeploy the ladder and try again. No more unreachable roofs!

(not sure if it's technically viable to implement this, though)

Then they wouldnt have to move down..If that is allowed to happen, battles will consist of 3min of waiting for flag, at spawn, followed by a small fight at flag..

[Tears of Destiny]

We would just remove all buildings from strategus and play in canyons with rock ramps leading up to everything! Yeah!   

[Babelfish]

We would just remove all buildings from strategus and play in canyons with rock ramps leading up to everything! Yeah!   

Strategus? Know you tired to be funny, but that completely ruined your point. 

[Tears of Destiny]

Strategus? Know you tired to be funny, but that completely ruined your point.

Why not?

If people are wanting to remove the ability to throw ladders in battle, then they will have zero practice for strategus which allows them everywhere, and next thing you know people will say "So I was fighting a strategus battle today in a city and those defending my old friends actually camped roofs and shit, this would NEVER happen in battle!" And then we would get posts calling for their removal too...

I am just predicting the whine that players will do in the future.

Replace all buildings in battle and strat with dirt covered buildings (hills) or tents. Problem solved for roof campers!

This sounds like a great idea, I should make a suggestion thread!

[Kafein]

I suggest we add other camping methods to even things up :

Infantry gets undergroundcamping. All inf can dig holes in the ground to find shelter from ranged and cav.
Cav gets aircamping. All horses can fly as high as they want, allowing cavalry to be safe from range and inf.

That way it would be balanced.

[Babelfish]

^ agreed.

Anyone that is allowed to use the ladders have better options to whereas they should practice with them.
 Like hosting the castle/village-map locally (and SIEGE), besides eu_3 has a long tradition of educating people in the art of laddering.
So i would like to call that point...moot.

Also strategus has never been a mirror/clone of the battle servers, what happens in strategus stays in strategus, and vica versa.

But sure go ahead, make that thread.

[Prpavi]

Why not?

If people are wanting to remove the ability to throw ladders in battle, then they will have zero practice for strategus which allows them everywhere, and next thing you know people will say "So I was fighting a strategus battle today in a city and those defending my old friends actually camped roofs and shit, this would NEVER happen in battle!" And then we would get posts calling for their removal too...

"strategus battle today in a city" is called a Siege

There is a Siege server for this.

Were talking about Battle servers here.