Adding 2h mode for poleaxes ? Poll inside.

[Kafein]

Some people forget that polearms have super-shit animations that make up for the bonus against shields and stun. Damage and speed wise, 2h and polearms are pretty much the same.


Polearms can do many things with many weapons. But in fact 2h can do nearly as many with only one weapon : a DGS or GGS. You are extremely hard to kill as cav (way harder than poleaxe users), you can backpedal shielders, you have the best duelling weapon and due to their 2h nature, your side swings go through teammates unlike with polearms.

[Corrado_Decimo]

1: I also tried to make a build that used all of those you wrote. Let's see how OP it is.

(click to show/hide)

Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)
Strength: 18
Agility: 18
Skills to attributes: 2
Power Strike: 6
Shield: 3
Athletics: 5
Riding: 5
Power Throw: 4
Weapon Master: 6
Polearm: 103
Crossbow: 100
Throwing: 100

Looks good doesn't it? Well let's also take a look at which of the roles you listed it can use properly
- pikeman Check. BUT it has way too little athl so your gonna be bumrushed with no chance to fight back. You can switch weapons but that usually means they get a free hit. Considering the 0 IF and that they are probably gonna be a dedicated melee, your not gonna win (we always assume the people are of equal skill)
- horseman Check. The riding is a bit low, but not that bad. You can be a decent horseman. You can even have a shield with your lance! (but what about when you are dehorsed? Well fuck you! Use your quarterstaff/short spear to fight of the angry mob that decends on you! OR use that 1 stack of throwing you took with you or the crossbow (without ammo) to fight them off!)
- halberdier Same as pikeman, but slightly better at dueling.
- billman Totally different than pike and halberdier! This is gonna be REALLY... Just joking, same as those two.
- staffmaster Check. But you're gonna be gimped as hell, having way too little athl. You could take some throwing daggers/darts with you. Might take away 1% of the enemy health before he stomps your ass in.
- spearman No. Nothing works as a spearman because spearmen in gimped into oblivion. But compared to OHTER spearmen, you are gonna be slower, worse shield, less health, less damage. Although you CAN take away the shield and use it as a normal 2h, but that would kinda defeat the whole purpose of being a spearman then.
- twohander Check. Your gonna be outskilled by dedicated twohander polearms, but you might get in a a bolt or two, or a couple of throwing whatever, before they close in, making it a more even fight.
- thrower Check. Sure you can be throwing! After all your might 4 PT and 100 wpf makes you the scourge of the land! And if you take 3 slots of throwing weapons (as any hybrid thrower worth his salt does) you can use the MIGHT quarterstaff! :O

I am also gonna say that "all" twohanders can be:
-Swordsmen
-Axemen
-Maulers
-Throwers
-Horsemen
-Shielders
-Flambergers (because the flamberge isn't a sword herpaderpa)
-Crossbowmen
-Archers
-Macemen

I claim this because those are all possible variations of how you can tailor a build and still use 2h. Thus all 2handers can do that.

my alt cav build:

(click to show/hide)

Legio_Bodyguard
RoleAlternate
Age45 [30]
Generation2
Gold8,217
Experience5,022,636
+3,713,207
Level up at8,735,843
Kills599
Deaths316
Rank#4291
Attributes
Available points: 0
Strength    15    
Agility    23    
Weapon proficiency
Available points: 5
One Handed    1    1 point per wpf
Two Handed    1    1 point per wpf
Polearm    163    11 points per wpf
Archery    1    1 point per wpf
Crossbow    1    1 point per wpf
Throwing    1    1 point per wpf
Skills
Available points: 1
Iron Flesh    1    3 strength per level
Power Strike    5    3 strength per level
Shield    0    3 agility per level
Athletics    4    3 agility per level
Riding    7    3 agility per level
Horse Archery    0    6 agility per level
Power Draw    0    3 strength per level
Power Throw    0    3 strength per level
Weapon Master    7

main role is cavalry. but is retardedly efficent on foot as an axemen, as a pikeman, LAWLpike stabber. Open map, i just roam with my arabian. Closed map i just stick with a Lo(L)ng Spear silly poking with a backup long axe for those never dying turtles. in siege i can flank with the LAWLpike and stab&stunlock for the win.

all crappy and cheap stock gear (studded leather coat, mail coif, scale gauntlets, long spear, awlpike, long axe, rouncey, arabian). i have 8k gold total and i'm a nab with it. still my k/d is almost 2:0.

polearms is just enuff easymode. no need to buff em further.

Some people forget that polearms have super-shit animations that make up for the bonus against shields and stun. Damage and speed wise, 2h and polearms are pretty much the same.


Polearms can do many things with many weapons. But in fact 2h can do nearly as many with only one weapon : a DGS or GGS. You are extremely hard to kill as cav (way harder than poleaxe users), you can backpedal shielders, you have the best duelling weapon and due to their 2h nature, your side swings go through teammates unlike with polearms.

some other people forget how bugged awlpike and longspear animations are (leading to jack-in-a-box thrusts, overhead to thrust awlpike animation lead to ghost thrusts), ability to strafe-spamming& stunlocking side swings with a glaive/milit scythe/LHB.

2h have no cav weapons (all 2handed weapons are held with one hand on horse so giving em the bastard 1h 20%penalty)
i really have no issue dueling with a glaive/LHB/long axe/elegant poleaxe.

your sideswings hit teammates but 2h overhead hits your teammate behind most of the time.

backpedal shielders? halberdiers can't? o_0

[Jarlek]

-snip-

main role is cavalry. but is retardedly efficent on foot as an axemen, as a pikeman, LAWLpike stabber. Open map, i just roam with my arabian. Closed map i just stick with a Lo(L)ng Spear silly poking with a backup long axe for those never dying turtles. in siege i can flank with the LAWLpike and stab&stunlock for the win.

all crappy and cheap stock gear (studded leather coat, mail coif, scale gauntlets, long spear, awlpike, long axe, rouncey, arabian). i have 8k gold total and i'm a nab with it. still my k/d is almost 2:0.

polearms is just enuff easymode. no need to buff em further.

some other people forget how bugged awlpike and longspear animations are (leading to jack-in-a-box thrusts, overhead to thrust awlpike animation lead to ghost thrusts), ability to strafe-spamming& stunlocking side swings with a glaive/milit scythe/LHB.

2h have no cav weapons (all 2handed weapons are held with one hand on horse so giving em the bastard 1h 20%penalty)
i really have no issue dueling with a glaive/LHB/long axe/elegant poleaxe.

your sideswings hit teammates but 2h overhead hits your teammate behind most of the time.

backpedal shielders? halberdiers can't? o_0

So your build can do 3 of the 8 roles you listed? Congratulations, but that steal means you BS'ed about how polearms can "fill all roles". Yes there is more variety in the polearm ITEMS but you also have to have a specific BUILD for most of those varied roles, while a twohander can move between almost all of their roles without having to respec.

And of COURSE you can spam with an agi build. You got shitloads of wpf, that's what you get then. Same with 2handers and 1handers

Alwspear and lolpike have bugged animations. Well so is the 2h stab. The swing glance (not damage glance) is also non-existant on 2handers, and that is THE buff 2handers have. Way better than the polestun (which is 0.2s more stun than 1h and 2h, not that much but barely enough for some weapons), atlhough some 2handers can also "stun" so they get in two hits before you can block. Have to have an agi build for this.

Polearms aren't easymode, which is besides the point, and this isn't a buff at all. It's mainly a "lose damage and balance and get range" suggestion. Did you even read the OP?

2h have no cav weapon? What about morningstar and longsword? Or did you mean weapons that are MEANT to be on horse? Yeah, polearms are the only with that and there's only a few of them, they are expensive, USELESS on foot for almost everything and takes up 2 slots. You can also say that 1h doesn't have any cavalry weapons too, funny how they never manage to get any kills, help any teammates or do anything at all. Obvious shit is also obvious. Polearms are MEANT to be the best on horse.

And about the % speed and damage reduction while on horse? Polearms got that too, only 1h that doesn't get it. Also it's not the "use as 1h" % reduction but the "use on horse" % reduction.

And yes, the sideswings of 2h never hit teamates but overhead hits the ones behind. With polearms the sidewings hit teammates AND the overhead hits those behind. Thanks for agreeing that 2h is better there.

[Memento_Mori]

you have the best duelling weapon and due to their 2h nature, your side swings go through teammates unlike with polearms.

loool

yes, every 2h is playing in single player mode where all swings don't do damage to team mates. xD
Where do you get this information.
By this logic, 2h should never TK except with over heads.




on topic, really don't see a problem with this, pole axes being able to be held at a different grip and using different wpp.

[Jarlek]

loool

yes, every 2h is playing in single player mode where all swings don't do damage to team mates. xD
Where do you get this information.
By this logic, 2h should never TK except with over heads.




on topic, really don't see a problem with this, pole axes being able to be held at a different grip and using different wpp.

It's not that 2handed animation don't hit allies on swings, it's that it's way less chance of it happening. Same with the pikestab can go through allies, so can the 2h swing animations. Overhead has silly hitbox behind on both.

[Corrado_Decimo]

So your build can do 3 of the 8 roles you listed? Congratulations, but that steal means you BS'ed about how polearms can "fill all roles". Yes there is more variety in the polearm ITEMS but you also have to have a specific BUILD for most of those varied roles, while a twohander can move between almost all of their roles without having to respec.

And of COURSE you can spam with an agi build. You got shitloads of wpf, that's what you get then. Same with 2handers and 1handers

Alwspear and lolpike have bugged animations. Well so is the 2h stab. The swing glance (not damage glance) is also non-existant on 2handers, and that is THE buff 2handers have. Way better than the polestun (which is 0.2s more stun than 1h and 2h, not that much but barely enough for some weapons), atlhough some 2handers can also "stun" so they get in two hits before you can block. Have to have an agi build for this.

Polearms aren't easymode, which is besides the point, and this isn't a buff at all. It's mainly a "lose damage and balance and get range" suggestion. Did you even read the OP?

2h have no cav weapon? What about morningstar and longsword? Or did you mean weapons that are MEANT to be on horse? Yeah, polearms are the only with that and there's only a few of them, they are expensive, USELESS on foot for almost everything and takes up 2 slots. You can also say that 1h doesn't have any cavalry weapons too, funny how they never manage to get any kills, help any teammates or do anything at all. Obvious shit is also obvious. Polearms are MEANT to be the best on horse.

And about the % speed and damage reduction while on horse? Polearms got that too, only 1h that doesn't get it. Also it's not the "use as 1h" % reduction but the "use on horse" % reduction.

And yes, the sideswings of 2h never hit teamates but overhead hits the ones behind. With polearms the sidewings hit teammates AND the overhead hits those behind. Thanks for agreeing that 2h is better there.

4 roles out of 8 because i like spec builds with many skill points converted. with a 18/18 polearm build you can pretty much do anything regarding melee.

polearm stagger is 0.2 secs longer than any other melee. so it's like reacting after being hit, with 200 added ping delay. try to react with your nominal ping + 200.. say 250ping. No wonder that a lot of 2handers gone 18/21 or 15/24 polearm just to strafe and right side spam.

and this is not going offtopic because it's all related to how the things really are and why the damn devs should work to give poleam EVEN more versatility just to give the already easymode polearm, the 2handed wielding for poleaxes just to have a retarded reach. (polexe is 141cm long. imagine it wielded as a twohanded with 31 pierce, 40 cut, shieldbreaking and enough weight to stun almost all 2h swords besides the flamberge.)

we could drag this discussion until christmas but my opinion is still negative.

It's not that 2handed animation don't hit allies on swings, it's that it's way less chance of it happening. Same with the pikestab can go through allies, so can the 2h swing animations. Overhead has silly hitbox behind on both.

yeah i forgot the "stick to your clanmate with a huscarl while you poke poke with a longspear forever".

that works. you just need to stay glued to a shielder, you can thrust all day and the enemy will not clearly see when the pike thrust will be released because it's behind a shield.

so before adding 2handed mode for poleaxes, i think there are a lot of other things with higher priority.

[Polobow]

If great long axe has 2h mode, i'm fine.

[Jarlek]

Or instead of a longspear and huscarl, you can go two hand and huscarl and sideswing and NEVER hit you teamate! Same argument for both of them! And no, an 18/18 pole build CAN'T use all those 8 roles, as you said. That's my whole point. is it that hard to see?

And why are you complaining about weight stun? The poleaxes and 2h swords weight almost the same. The flameberge is heavier, the greatswords a bit less, nodachi, claymore and SoW is the same as them. I play as a shielder myself, and the 2h hands have a far more annoying stun AND they can hit you faster.

I'm gonna point this out. I didn't enter this discussion to talk about how OP 2h/pole is, I was telling you how awfully stupid your claim that "polearms can do everything" is. Just, no. They can't. There are polearms for a lot of different things, but no polearbuild can do them all, ESPECIALLY one can't do them at the same time.

And the stagger? Well polearms got that, you have the neverglance. Fair trade. Add that the polearms also have OBVIOUS animations, which makes them easier to block, because of their length, while still "losing" a lot of reach from the animations. The stun is just one extra bonus for polearms. THAT BEING SAID! The stun shoulnd't be for ALL polearms. It should be for Spears/Staffs/pikes and ONLY for stabbing with certain other weapons, like the poleaxes. Glaives, LHB and the polearm AXES shouldn't have the stun. And it is THOSE weapons that should have the 2h animation alternative NOT the poleaxes. Capiche?

[HarunYahya]

I didn't expect that amount of shitstorm could be caused by one suggestion.
Aim of this suggestion is for making POLEAXES better anticav weapon than 2h swords, nothing more ..change damage penalty increase it to %50 i don't care but i want to be able to hold my 140 cm long weapon from its end to protect myself against cav.I got bored of carrying a long spear + poleaxe cuz of that shitty grip.Corrado you are whining a lot about 2h , with this suggestion you and your 2hander friends will be able to use poleaxes which stun like polearm builds with your 2h wpf.
I didn't expect that much QQ and weird examples from a respected member of this community like you.

[Corrado_Decimo]

I didn't expect that amount of shitstorm could be caused by one suggestion.
Aim of this suggestion is for making POLEAXES better anticav weapon than 2h swords, nothing more ..change damage penalty increase it to %50 i don't care but i want to be able to hold my 140 cm long weapon from its end to protect myself against cav.I got bored of carrying a long spear + poleaxe cuz of that shitty grip.Corrado you are whining a lot about 2h , with this suggestion you and your 2hander friends will be able to use poleaxes which stun like polearm builds with your 2h wpf.
I didn't expect that much QQ and weird examples from a respected member of this community like you.

despite the fact that poleaxes are not anticav weapons. but shieldbreakers and damage dealers.

it's neither a QQ matter. i just stated facts. i really don't give a damn if you need another buff to polearm line.

neither a shitstorm... unless discussing about polearms means shitstorm for you.

[HarunYahya]

despite the fact that poleaxes are not anticav weapons. but shieldbreakers and damage dealers.

it's neither a QQ matter. i just stated facts. i really don't give a damn if you need another buff to polearm line.

neither a shitstorm... unless discussing about polearms means shitstorm for you.

-Polearm diversity such as lances , long spears , maces,poleaxes
-Polearm stun
Discussing those topics on a  suggestion thread about only poleaxes is a shitstorm for me .
Another fact : Greatswords are not anticav weapons neither .
I don't consider this suggestion as "buff"
-%10 Swing Damage
-%20 Stab Damage
-%5 Speed
- Unbalanced Effect
- 2 Handed Weapon WPF will take effect.
+ 2 Handed weapon grip

I see only one positive line while i see 5 negative lines.
It's not a buff neither it is a nerf. Just an ability to change grip in exchange of lots of things.
I rather call it a feature .
Please share your ideas about Poleaxes and this implement only because discussing polestun or 2h-polearm flamewar is not this thread's topic.

[Jarlek]

-Polearm diversity such as lances , long spears , maces,poleaxes
-Polearm stun
Discussing those topics on a  suggestion thread about only poleaxes is a shitstorm for me .
Another fact : Greatswords are not anticav weapons neither .
I don't consider this suggestion as "buff"
-%10 Swing Damage
-%20 Stab Damage
-%5 Speed
- Unbalanced Effect
- 2 Handed Weapon WPF will take effect.
+ 2 Handed weapon grip

I see only one positive line while i see 5 negative lines.
It's not a buff neither it is a nerf. Just an ability to change grip in exchange of lots of things.
I rather call it a feature .
Please share your ideas about Poleaxes and this implement only because discussing polestun or 2h-polearm flamewar is not this thread's topic.

Actually if it went to use two hand wpf then you would lose the stop horses thingie. Only weapons in polearm mode can do that.

And yes, poleaxes ARE anticav weapons, herpaderpa. It's just that the ones we have ingame are actually shorter than what they are supposed to be. They were around 1.2-2.0m long. The longes poleaxe ingame is the swiss halberd which is 160 and the shortest is the german poleaxe which is 131. I say make one of them 120, another 140, one 160 (very slow but still have sideswings) and the halberd into a fully OMFG 200 length mutherfucker! Kinda sucks that the 2hers outrange a fricking poleaxe now anyways.

[Corrado_Decimo]

Actually if it went to use two hand wpf then you would lose the stop horses thingie. Only weapons in polearm mode can do that.

And yes, poleaxes ARE anticav weapons, herpaderpa. It's just that the ones we have ingame are actually shorter than what they are supposed to be. They were around 1.2-2.0m long. The longes poleaxe ingame is the swiss halberd which is 160 and the shortest is the german poleaxe which is 131. I say make one of them 120, another 140, one 160 (very slow but still have sideswings) and the halberd into a fully OMFG 200 length mutherfucker! Kinda sucks that the 2hers outrange a fricking poleaxe now anyways.

for the sake of balance, if you want something long, you grab a pike.

Discussing those topics on a  suggestion thread about only poleaxes is a shitstorm for me .

because you don't read. in short i wrote:

polearms have MANY purposes versus other weapon lines. SO another FEATURE giving even MORE DIVERSITY is just too much.

[Jarlek]

for the sake of balance, if you want something long, you grab a pike.

because you don't read. in short i wrote:

polearms have MANY purposes versus other weapon lines. SO another FEATURE giving even MORE DIVERSITY is just too much.

Or a 2h, since they outrange everything except the 2 attack direction weapons.

[Corrado_Decimo]

Or a 2h, since they outrange everything except the 2 attack direction weapons.

omg.. you guys keep saying i'm shitstorming your smart suggestion about this new feature.

it's really simple. you made a poll to ask if people agree or don't. i just stated my reason about why i disagree.
then koyama say i'm going off topic and you jarlek keep doing the same? wtf?

no need to argue about that. you don't need to keep saying i'm wrong since i don't need to defend my opinion about that. i just gave mine since there is a poll requesting the vote reasons.

looking at the poll results, majority speaks, people disagree. deal with it.

[troll mode on]

(click to show/hide)

i knew debating serious things with someone who have a pokemon avatar, would go nowhere. 

[troll mode off]