Author Topic: Final Solution for Cavalry. (Make it.. different)  (Read 21004 times)

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Offline bruce

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Re: Final Solution for Cavalry. (Make it.. different)
« Reply #225 on: June 09, 2012, 04:11:25 pm »
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Cav should bump at any speed. We had that stuff with low charge before, people would stand in front of horses to stop them. That is just daft.

That said, the natural counters which made cav frustrating as hell to play are partially gone so eh you see them everywhere.
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Offline Gurnisson

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Re: Final Solution for Cavalry. (Make it.. different)
« Reply #226 on: June 09, 2012, 04:14:23 pm »
+1
the chance to kock someone down = charge damage = bump damage, the lower the bump = the less chance to knock someone down , the higher the bump = more people you can knock them down

I get knocked down a lot while not taking damage at all when a horse is basically walking at me. If it could be made so that bump damage was still the same, but you would require higher speed to knock someone to the ground, then it would be a nice change. The auto-win button that is knockdown at low speed is a joke.
I voted Gurnisson cause of his fucking bendy pike, I swear noone can roflcopter stab like he can.

Offline bruce

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Re: Final Solution for Cavalry. (Make it.. different)
« Reply #227 on: June 09, 2012, 04:15:27 pm »
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Problem is that the game doesn't know how to "push" someone aside. So either horses knock down infantry or infantry flat out stops horses like we had a long long time ago.
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Offline Bulzur

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Re: Final Solution for Cavalry. (Make it.. different)
« Reply #228 on: June 09, 2012, 05:13:45 pm »
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Problem is that the game doesn't know how to "push" someone aside. So either horses knock down infantry or infantry flat out stops horses like we had a long long time ago.

It does.
If the horse is slow enough, it "bumps" the ennemy, making him unable to block in the moment, but it doesn't knock him down. This rarely happens though, and you often get knocked down, without taking any damage, because of a slowly trotting horse.

The "bump" also lasts for 2sec and something, and usually, the horse has gone away by then. But it so happens, that when the horse is super slow, you can be "bumped" twice in a row, by the same horse. The first time, when his head hits you, the second time, when you're "inside" the horse. The inability to block, attack, jump, do anything, is pretty strong already.

Just change the knockdown to a bump if the charge does less than 2 damage. Wich means the horse was too slow, or isn't meant to charge (hello palfrey).
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Offline Mlekce

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Re: Final Solution for Cavalry. (Make it.. different)
« Reply #229 on: June 09, 2012, 05:24:42 pm »
+1
You can't be aware in all directions at any given time. That's not possible for a human. That being said, there's tons of people whose awareness is utter shit and they deserve to be backstabbed. One problem is that horses makes pretty low noise and you can't really decide from the noice how far away they are, how long it'll take for them to reach you or even in which direction they're charging from.

Melee cav (especially lancer) is by far the easiest class to play. They're able to pick their own fights, one-hit pretty much anything and escape fast from every possible danger at any given time. All that just for a mediocre increase in the repair bill. Any cav with decent awareness and decision-making should be top-scoring in most of the maps if the build/gear is not utter crap.

However, I don't think cav needs a hard nerf. I think the bumping is too good, considering you can bump down any infantry player even at very low speed. I would suggest that the amount of speed required to bump someone down should be increased. Otherwise I find it fine.

The blocking is not the problem, the force-field is. You can stab a horse in the face, but the shield/lance block will take the hit even though it's not even close. Blocking on horseback should be possible of course, but they should find a way to get rid off that bug

OK and did you tried to be lancer for one gen? To be effective you need champion horse and high riding skill 6 riding minimum.
Fighting inf is not hard,but inf can still kill you if they jump in opposite direction of ur lance swing,and that speed bonus you get is going against you. Agile 1h like byzantium plavor do this thing a lot.
Fighting inf and archers is not so hard,but fighting other lance and 1h cav and HA is the real thing. That require skill,and expirience.
1h cav will always use their shield raised and then try to stop you with their horse,and that shield will apsorb all impact from lance,and then they will cut ur horse to pieces and even kill you. Domusperkele,byzantium royans and few others use this tactic.
lace cav on arabian warhorse that is champ and with mw lance will paly like they are easy pray,but they will make attack and while the lance is still in air move their agile horse and stab you in face. They can dodge anything,and cut ur horse to pieces. Lungy ball with champ rouncey and mw light lance is very nasty opponent. Gk Kerrigan is best lancer in this game and he can kill aware piker. Fallen thimas was good lancer.
Hitboxes are fucked up with lance cav because if you are comming from behind enemy lancer you need to aim a little away from lancer body,but if you ride straight to him you need to aim little in front of him,and if you are comming from side  you need to move again in front of him to be able to hit him. If you have lance or light lance you will not be able to cocudh enemy cav from side. So you need a lot of feeling for lancing to know when to release lance,where to aim,how to dodge arrows,other horses,where to move,where to not move,when to attack piker or archer,and when not.
Yeah there is not much blocking involved in cav,but it require skill. Yeah we can all see that my old friends on coursers that only couch ppl on spawn,but they die very fast when they encouter other cav.

Offline Gurnisson

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Re: Final Solution for Cavalry. (Make it.. different)
« Reply #230 on: June 09, 2012, 05:40:14 pm »
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OK and did you tried to be lancer for one gen? To be effective you need champion horse and high riding skill 6 riding minimum.

Yes, I was lancer for one gen. From level 30-31 my K/D was 7.4, more than I get with any other class. I used a 18/18 build with 6 shield, 6 PS, 5 IF, 6 Ath and 6 ride (0 wm)

Fighting inf is not hard,but inf can still kill you if they jump in opposite direction of ur lance swing,and that speed bonus you get is going against you. Agile 1h like byzantium plavor do this thing a lot.

If you miss, it's your own fault. It's not like it's hard to aim a lance. If you're not sure that you're gonna hit him, find someone else to go for, no reason to waste your life on some petty 'duel'.

Fighting inf and archers is not so hard,but fighting other lance and 1h cav and HA is the real thing. That require skill,and expirience.
1h cav will always use their shield raised and then try to stop you with their horse,and that shield will apsorb all impact from lance,and then they will cut ur horse to pieces and even kill you. Domusperkele,byzantium royans and few others use this tactic.

I used that trick when I played on my 1H cav alt and my experience with it made sure that I wouldn't fall into such a trap myself. I either couch 1H cav's horse from the side or I avoid them, at least skilled ones like Royans. As for lancers, almost all fall for the 'ride away, turn horse to the right while slowing down, stab to the face' maneuver, which is not hard but one-hits almost all the time.

lace cav on arabian warhorse that is champ and with mw lance will paly like they are easy pray,but they will make attack and while the lance is still in air move their agile horse and stab you in face. They can dodge anything,and cut ur horse to pieces. Lungy ball with champ rouncey and mw light lance is very nasty opponent. Gk Kerrigan is best lancer in this game and he can kill aware piker. Fallen thimas was good lancer.

I didn't find any of those you mentioned there a problem. The only guy I didn't like to have on my tail was SikiciOttoman since he was by far more maneuverable than me, and also quite a bit faster. If you add that he's very skilled, that makes for one nasty opponent. He's the top lancer in my opinion, except for maybe Leed, but he's unfortunately not playing anymore.

Hitboxes are fucked up with lance cav because if you are comming from behind enemy lancer you need to aim a little away from lancer body,but if you ride straight to him you need to aim little in front of him,and if you are comming from side  you need to move again in front of him to be able to hit him. If you have lance or light lance you will not be able to cocudh enemy cav from side. So you need a lot of feeling for lancing to know when to release lance,where to aim,how to dodge arrows,other horses,where to move,where to not move,when to attack piker or archer,and when not.
Yeah there is not much blocking involved in cav,but it require skill. Yeah we can all see that my old friends on coursers that only couch ppl on spawn,but they die very fast when they encouter other cav.

It took me a long time to grasp most of the things of melee combat, lancing not so much. It's easier to become a cav master than it's to become an infantry master.
I voted Gurnisson cause of his fucking bendy pike, I swear noone can roflcopter stab like he can.

Offline Zlisch_The_Butcher

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Re: Final Solution for Cavalry. (Make it.. different)
« Reply #231 on: June 09, 2012, 07:42:52 pm »
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(like YOU Thomek)
Thomek hates cav so much he didn't even unmute me after I saved his life by killing like 3 guys attacking him (at least one of them lancers), stoping another cav about to lance him while he was meleeing two guys I then bumped and afterwards I bumped an archer about to shot him...
...and Chlorine hates cav so much he muted me just for posting USA! 50 times in a row.
1H stab is the fastest, strongest and longest 1H animation. There's no reason NOT to use it in all instances. I don't know if it's OP, but it's boring. 1H used to be fun because you had a fast (left), long (right) and the most devastating attack (stab) and had to choose the best attack for each occasion.

Offline Zisa

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Re: Final Solution for Cavalry. (Make it.. different)
« Reply #232 on: June 09, 2012, 08:40:05 pm »
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I luv cav.
I repeat - remove couch except for couching only lances. If you do not like this idea, you are a shitty.
Give back lance thrust radius - put some fun back into cav v cav.
Oh, and halve horsebump, don't give me a realism argument you shitties. The idea of small bumps not knocking down removes the chance of bump slashes from missing you while prone :P

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Offline Mlekce

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Re: Final Solution for Cavalry. (Make it.. different)
« Reply #233 on: June 09, 2012, 09:12:05 pm »
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Cav is very fun and rewarding class to play,and it realy doesn't matter what lvl are you. Defference between 30 and 35 lvl cav is not a big deal.
While you play as inf every lvl counts. 35 to 30 have hudge advantage.

Offline Mlekce

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Re: Final Solution for Cavalry. (Make it.. different)
« Reply #234 on: June 09, 2012, 09:14:02 pm »
+2
I luv cav.
I repeat - remove couch except for couching only lances. If you do not like this idea, you are a shitty.
Give back lance thrust radius - put some fun back into cav v cav.
Oh, and halve horsebump, don't give me a realism argument you shitties. The idea of small bumps not knocking down removes the chance of bump slashes from missing you while prone :P

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If they remove couch,they should bring native lance radius. That would be epic.

Offline Hunter_the_Honourable

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Re: Final Solution for Cavalry. (Make it.. different)
« Reply #235 on: June 10, 2012, 01:20:55 am »
+2
To be honest now that I think of it all the 2hers who use great swords can't really complain seeing as their stab out ranges the HL (unless you have really good timing) and when they stab it normally hits the horses legs which does extra damage for example when they do it to me on my champ destrier it loses over half to three quarters of its health 80% of the time so why are you bitching?
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Offline bruce

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Re: Final Solution for Cavalry. (Make it.. different)
« Reply #236 on: June 10, 2012, 01:30:42 am »
+3
+1 for native lance radius for couch
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Offline Huey Newton

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Re: Final Solution for Cavalry. (Make it.. different)
« Reply #237 on: June 10, 2012, 02:07:52 am »
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Gk Kerrigan is best lancer in this game continent

He's the top EU lancer in my opinion, except for maybe Leed, but he's unfortunately not playing anymore.

had to  :rolleyes:

Offline Son Of Odin

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Re: Final Solution for Cavalry. (Make it.. different)
« Reply #238 on: June 10, 2012, 03:21:53 am »
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I think Kapikulu Dede must be one of the best lancers out there. Rides with that armored monster and still manages to dehorse me... I don't know how can someone be that consistent every time. Tbh I think I haven't seen anyone drop him or his horse in 1v1 lancing situation in long time...
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Offline bruce

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Re: Final Solution for Cavalry. (Make it.. different)
« Reply #239 on: June 10, 2012, 03:24:02 am »
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I remember when he started playing... he has had a lot of practice with lancing.
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