2h/Polearms STILL significantly faster than 1h weapons

[Gorath]

So I guess based on this information the biggest advantage 1h has is the shield. The biggest problem 1h has is the shield.

 

Yeah, that's pretty much the jist of it.  Shields = easier time blocking arrows + disadvantaged in melee.  Adapt. 

[Xant]

Depends, though. Shields aren't always disadvantaged in melee... sure, you're slower and your strikes are easier to block, but you also can't be killed unless you fuck up and fall for a feint.

[Rextard]

    The challenge level the 1hand fighters experience feel disproportionate to the 2handers. I don't care what anyone claims, you only have to look around battlefields to see it. The people getting kills consistently and climbing the scoreboards are almost always ranged and/or using 2handers/polearms. There are less and less 1h/shielders around, and they're tending to be meat shields for the people getting the kills.

    2handers mostly have heavy armor, and I have to hit 4-7 times to kill on average. Many fights with 2hand users I'm dead after just 1 hit from their weapon. I have 4 IF, 4 PS, Side Sword, Studded Leather Coat, 116 wpf, 16 agi and 14 str. I get kills, I just have to work a lot harder than a 2hander to get them. Because of the shield lag issue, I have to wait for people to screw up either on their timing or on their footwork to have a ~chance~ to get an attack in. Then that has to happen several times per person. It's not that I can't parry, but when you have to worry about parrying 4+ times and riposte successfully every time, it just not always worth it. All you have to do is screw up once and you're dead, whereas they can go nuts and make mistakes.

Most 2hand players I see hesitate only if I un-equip my shield. Shields are not supposed to just be arrow stoppers. The defense they provide in melee is supposed to aid the wielder's offense: by deflecting weapons away when blocking, and because you can smash them into a face to disorient. That's why many shields are rounded and not just flat. If you don't understand the distribution of forces against angles or curves, then go learn some physics.

    A realistic example of what I'm talking about: Knight with greatsword fights a shield and sword fighter on a rampart. Knight swings and misses, hitting into the rampart wall. The shield fighter hops back into range as this happens to trap the greatsword against the wall with his shield, and exposes the knight to the 1hand sword which is still free for the swinging or stabbing.

   Another example: Shield blocking an overhead attack from a 2hander up high before it comes down, leaves the 2hander's torso exposed to an underhand stab, since only the shield arm has to go up high for the block, not the weapon waiting in the other hand.

Anyway, the point is that shields shouldn't stop you from using your other arm in coordination. The shield-attack lag phenomenon is unnatural to non-huge shields, and people with 2 arms.

[UrLukur]

I'm not convinced you weren't just outplayed. Either way, shielders get lots of advantages too, if one slow weapon-class can get through your shield, I wouldn't say that's too horrible.

2h is slow ? Crushing weapons are slow ? where ?

[Gorath]

Depends, though. Shields aren't always disadvantaged in melee... sure, you're slower and your strikes are easier to block, but you also can't be killed unless you fuck up and fall for a feint.

Or you attempt a feint yourself and try to go back to a block in time when you realize your opponent just swung his weapon instead of falling for it, and the shield delay prevents your recovery.

Granted you get used to it somewhat, but shields affect your ability to feint and correct/respond as smoothly as without one.

[Leesin]

The good 1h + shield players prove otherwise.

When you have a guy hugging you with good movement ( meaning kick is useless against him after the kick nerf ), using a good shield and a fairly decent 1h weapon, feinting and striking, blocking everything you swing at him, it gets very difficult, infact the players that trouble me most are these good 1h + shield guys, because I don't use a shield breaking weapon and there are many players that don't either.

 It is an advantage in itself to only have to push the block button at the correct times, rather than having to block in the correct direction aswell as with the right timing, especially when feinting is involved and I have seen some 1h + shield players feint very quickly.

The 1h + shield players that I demolish over and over again are the ones that don't put enough pressure on me, they don't seem to try and stay in my face enough and they never try a feint, just swing block swing block from a distance they think is safe and with only straight movements that make it easy for me to block everything they swing. Meanwhile they fall for my feints constantly, even with a damn shield, which IMO is just either lack of skill or lack of focus.

If you've also built your 1h + shield character wrong then it's your own fault he's too slow, because all the good 1h + shield guys I've come across swing and block quickly.

[Blondin]

The way of the shielder may seems easier, but it needs skills, feint and footwork to be effective.
Speed is not the greatest problem, it's'pretty easy to spam with a "sparmitar", but the damage are low.
You can't have the ultimate fighter just cos you have a shield, game needs to be balanced, shielder have the best defense (against archer and multiple opponents) a 2hander can't parry 2 simultanious attacks from different directions, shielder can. Don't talk about reality when you can strike and parry at same time, again game needs balance.
Shielder is a defense class, if you want to be offensive you have to be good and skilled, or at least learn from your mistake.
2h spammers are easy for 1h: footwork(most important) and timing, if you circle around the guy and left slash at good moment you will win most of duel. Againt hammer you need a better reach wp and footwork again but you got to know there are your nemesis.

Btw, with feint, footwork and good timing, agi build becomes useless, str build afford you to strike less time to kill.

I can understand your frustration, but use your rage to train and learn, not for whining on the forum.

[Siiem]

This topic, close it please.

[DrKronic]

2h is slow ? Crushing weapons are slow ? where ?

actually yes a bar mace's side swings are very slow, even with 171 wpf and 26 agi(slight botch on my current build allows 27 agi at 31, not 30) my swings are half as fast as say a guy with a bec who pumped his str to almost max(I know because I have a guy with polearm who pumped his str to max)

after fighting a bunch of nonames with sidesword and kite shields(mebbe heaters) tonight, I'm convinced this is a player skill issue more than an actual one that needs to be addressed

its basically championed by the same people over and over again on this forum, but yet say if I jump on my level 15(1h alt is now) with side sword I have no problem

I wonder why, oh wait I guess I'm a skilled person and therefore have to take myself out of the equation, no thats not how it works, balance doesn't mean anything like that, you have to see where the stars are also if you buff a whole class and push someone from "basically most dangerous guy" to "completely fucking ridiculous" you haven't balanced anything, in fact you've broken it

I notice the swing with 1h takes alot of getting used to, but already I can tell certain swings are really good at say swiping someones face and one shotting them for example, just have to have the right PS and connect at the right time in the swing(seems I glance at off angles)

[zagibu]

High agi low armor katana builds can spam so fast a 1h+shield can get no strike in. I know this for a fact, since I currently play a 15/24 character and sometimes pick up a katana from the ground.

[Thomek]

Simply not true.

I got one of the fastest possible while still practical 2h builds.

masterwork katana 104 speed
25 agi / will be 27
171 2h wpf

Even low level 18-22 lvl shielders can get a hit in between my swings. If you can't, check your ping, your system or learn to react faster.

I never even try to "outspam" a shielder as it is suicide to try to do so. Only times I hack away at a shield is if i meet some obviously scared player that never attacks, but only backpedals, and I have time and safety to hack his shield to pieces. (requires a lot of hits) But even this is very rare.

Stop spreading the myth that katanas can outspam everything. Yes it's the fastest 2h but it's not THAT fast.

[Vygar]

2H/Pole animations are simply superior; they are much more efficient.  As an experiment, I built an all Str/PS no agility toon that runs around with a barmace.  He consistantly strikes faster than my agi heavy shield toon.  As far as I can tell, the "Ready To Swing" animation is unaffected by WPF which is why 2h/pole are able to swing faster than 1h weapons.  This appears to be where 2h/pole users have their biggest advantage.

[BD_Guard_Bane]

What about the 1hand advantage with that weird left swing cross body animation? It's so damn hard to see properly... kinda starts out like an overhead too, so you can get fooled.

[Punisher]

I love how 1Handers keep whining all the time, 1H+Shield is now the most powerful build and they still whine. If you are outspammed put your shield on your back and you will spam the hell out of anyone with your 100+ speed swords. Just look on the servers, if 1H+shield would be that bad there wouldn't be so many shielders out there. However 1handers keep getting buffed

[Leshma]

You're funny guy, Fallen_Punisher