A balance for crossbow and archery.

[Aleskander]

Crossbows are much stronger than bows in CRPG, as evidence by the fact that they do much more damage, have a higher missile speed, aren't affected by armor, are more accurate, and a bunch of other bullshit. And frankly, they should be. It's been stated many times that any idiot can pick up a crossbow and shoot accurately. How about making WPF for crossbows increase the time it takes for the accuracy of the crossbow to increase. Moving and readjusting your aim would harm this, but not completely reset it. Have about 140 WPF be at the time it takes now, and 0 WPF be at 0%. I just want to make sure that crossbowers can't be proficient at both crossbowery and melee at the same time. To make sure that crossbowers aren't hampered by having to wait to aim AND missile speed, increase the missile speed of crossbows by 50% or so.

[Mtemtko]

  I think there are already 4 xbow threads active at the moment...

[Aleskander]

There are, but I'm bored

[Gurnisson]

aren't affected by armor

That part, right there, is wrong.

[Hirlok]

To make sure that crossbowers aren't hampered by having to wait to aim AND missile speed, increase the missile speed of crossbows by 50% or so.

I am just playing one gen of xbow, and let me say: NO, a further increase in missile speed would mean instant impact, hyperspeed, wormholes, you name it... the bolts are insanely fast already compared to my usual bodkins (which would hit the target faster if I delivered them by running there and stuck them manually in the butt of the chosen one...)
Apart from missile speed, I basically agree.

But as stated in several other threads by people with and without insight in the inner workings of c-rpg: xbows will not be balanced anytime soon, unless the playing style preferences of the dev team eventually change...

P.S.: until now my sentiments towards xbows were supported only by a few quick experiments. Now I can say it with confidence: they ARE not balanced. With an Arbalest (only heirloomed once, like the steel bolts), level 24 right now and about 120 WPF in crossbows I have similar results compared to my normal build at level 29/30 with masterwork longbow and bodkins. The xbow is far more accurate, plus I have countless points for IF, ath, even PS and shield, that normally need to be converted to bring PD up to 6 or 7 and archery skill to a feasable 160+ points... so for me playing a gen of xbow feels like holiday in FPS land... LOL

[Aleskander]

That part, right there, is wrong.

Aren't affacted as much, yeah, that was innacurate.

[Cup1d]

It's been stated many times that any idiot can pick up a crossbow and shoot accurately.

Point me to any evidence that medieval crossbow was «Accurate».
Can't?

[Memento_Mori]

Point me to any evidence that medieval crossbow was «Accurate».
Can't?

I think he's talking about crossbows in Mount & Blade Warband, specifically this mod C-rpg.
He is not talking about crossbows in real life.. I have no idea how you got that out of what he said. xD


Memento_Mori reading = fail

[Rumblood]

I think he's talking about crossbows in Mount & Blade Warband, specifically this mod C-rpg.
He is not talking about crossbows in real life.. I have no idea how you got that out of what he said. xD

Perhaps you should read what he posted?

And frankly, they should be. It's been stated many times that any idiot can pick up a crossbow and shoot accurately.

So yeah, he's talking about Xbows in real life. To which I agree with Memento_Mori. Show me this weapon where anyone picking it up is a marksman. I can take a modern pistol and it won't be as accurate as Xbows are being portrayed in game.

[Blondin]

As a shielder i have less difficulty with xbow than archer, i mean once the guy shoot his bolt it takes age to reload and i have time to reach him or to hide.
Archers can shot multiple times and if they are two, it's the end for you.
Ppl forget reloading time and fighting style when they compare xbow to bow.

Xbow are a problem when you are in melee, because lot of ppl still use xbwo as a sidearm.

[Cup1d]

Arrows cannot penetrate shield.  Bolts can.

And I really like this Materpiece suggestion:

Archers can shot multiple times and if they are two, it's the end for you.

Ok. So in other words, your shielder will pwn any other 2 enemy characters, but two damned archers always kill you.
Let's talk about people with same level of skill, ok?

Your shielder always victorous against
2 lancers
2 shielders
2 xbowman
2 twohanders
2 polearmers
archer and xbowman etc...

You must be a Legend. Or Hero. Stop, we have one Hero already...

[Tomas]

I think Xbows and Bows are pretty much balanced right now tbh.  A skilled Longbow user will nearly always beat a skilled arbalast user in a straight fight with no cover due to the fact that the Arbalast user has to stand still to reload which takes an age.

Furthermore it can be argued that crossbow users need the ability to get some melee proficiency due to the fact that they are much more likely to get caught up in a melee.  The Arbalast has one chance to kill a closing melee opponent.  If that fails then unless you have team mates to rescue you, you have to stand and fight as running away is pointless - you'll never gain enough distance on your opponent to have enough time to reload.

Wpf does affect crossbow reload times and the chance to break so xbow users do have to use it.  For the record once you've put 100 points into crossbow proficiency you're limited to just 133 points in a 2nd proficiency at level 30 with 6WM.  It doesn't exactly make you the melee killing machine that some people think xbow users are.  Using an Arbalast without wpf just loses you cash and if you use an arbalast you only have 1 slot left for melee weapons.  Most people using an xbow as a sidearm are using the 1 slot crossbow which only has 54 pierce damage compared to 81 making it significantly less powerful.  For instance, i'm pretty sure the crossbow doesn't fire through shields

Having said all that I do think a couple of changes could be made to make things a little more realistic. 

1)  At least 50 wpf should be required to use a 2 slot xbow.  This would stop randomers picking up Arbalasts on the Battlefield (or using them in Strat).

2)  Make all weapons useable with 2 hands into 2 slot weapons.  I'm referring to the Mace, Langes Messer, Staff, Quarter Staff and Military Fork here and really they just act as loopholes to get round the slot system.  This would make sure that Arbalast and Longbow users do actually suffer some sort of melee penalty - either having to use a 1H weapon with no shield or a shield with a very weak 1H weapon.

[Digglez]

get rid of reticule for all ranged attacks, that would help

[Darkkarma]

get rid of reticule for all ranged attacks, that would help

Then you'd have nothing but shot gunning crossbowers and throwers.

[Digglez]

Then you'd have nothing but shot gunning crossbowers and throwers.

thats pretty much already the case.  if you take away reticule they could put archery speed back up to normal and maybe even make them draw faster