Author Topic: Please make everything outrageously expensive.  (Read 3386 times)

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Offline Deathwhisper

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Re: Please make everything outrageously expensive.
« Reply #30 on: August 19, 2011, 12:33:15 am »
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We don't see many mid-tier weapons because even top-tier ones are quite cheap (10k for most of them), unlike plate armor which is superior to 20k or even 30k.
If we increased the price of most weapons, especially high-tier ones, it might solve the problem. Only those selling their heirloomed points would be able to afford crazy things like flamberge + milanese plate, but it would be at the cost of heirlooms, so it's fine imo.

Offline Gorath

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Re: Please make everything outrageously expensive.
« Reply #31 on: August 19, 2011, 06:25:08 am »
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doing this will only make the new players suffer.

^
That.  Also add any player who doesn't have a large stockpile of gold period.
And I should be nice or polite to anyone.... why exactly?

Offline Vibe

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Re: Please make everything outrageously expensive.
« Reply #32 on: August 19, 2011, 07:46:03 am »
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-1, one of the worst suggestions ever

Offline Panoply

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Re: Please make everything outrageously expensive.
« Reply #33 on: August 19, 2011, 09:22:50 am »
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doing this will only make the new players suffer.

Well, new players don't pay any upkeep at lvl 25 and under gen 1. I just started a new alt, and I have to say, I have no trouble getting decent equipment by level 15 and being semi-useful.

Also add any player who doesn't have a large stockpile of gold period.

The extent to which one group is punished must be seen as relative to the general population. People sitting on large piles of gold will certainly be able to ignore increased upkeep for a long enough time that the inequality is concerning. We're operating under the assumption that these moneyed people are a small minority, right? Ignoring these people, everyone "suffers" about the same, which is to say that relative strength should not be changed.

Players with large stockpiles of gold will be a problem regardless of stable upkeep levels. Raising upkeep means these players will have a larger relative advantage in the short term, but will equalize faster. Lowering upkeep means these players will have a lower relative advantage in the short term, but will take a lot longer to equalize. The only real solution to moneybags is a wipe. And that's if you consider moneybags to be a major problem.

Offline Gheritarish le Loki

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Re: Please make everything outrageously expensive.
« Reply #34 on: August 19, 2011, 03:19:25 pm »
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Well, new players don't pay any upkeep at lvl 25 and under gen 1. I just started a new alt, and I have to say, I have no trouble getting decent equipment by level 15 and being semi-useful.

You have no problem now, but if you raise price of everything then new/money less player will not be able to buy good gear before long time.


Offline Turkhammer

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Re: Please make everything outrageously expensive.
« Reply #35 on: August 19, 2011, 06:16:55 pm »
-1
I think we need to have a revolution and distribute the wealth equally among the masses!  Down with the wealthy bourgeoisie!

Offline Lichen

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Re: Please make everything outrageously expensive.
« Reply #36 on: August 19, 2011, 07:19:01 pm »
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The only real solution to moneybags is a wipe.
Are we talking 'moneybags' AFTER we had upkeep or before? Because I've made a good amount of gold AFTER upkeep was implemented. In fact that's where I've gained most of it. So are we now punishing players who aren't stupid noobs who buy stuff they can afford to maintain and play well enough to generate positive gold?
« Last Edit: August 19, 2011, 07:23:29 pm by Lichen »

Offline Panoply

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Re: Please make everything outrageously expensive.
« Reply #37 on: August 19, 2011, 08:17:24 pm »
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You have no problem now, but if you raise price of everything then new/money less player will not be able to buy good gear before long time.

I don't know how many times I have to say it, but raising upkeep proportionally brings everyone down. Relative strength, guys... New players will not need as good gear as they do now to compete if everyone else is also using mid tier stuff. In fact, assuming gold gain is untouched, increased upkeep will actually *HELP* new players. Stay with me here...

It takes 1,929,158 exp to reach level 26, at which point, you lose upkeep amnesty and have to start paying bills. Before this point, you get all the gold you've earned. At 1000 exp: 50 gold, you would get approximately 96458 gold in that time, all yours. This is plenty of gold to buy the high tier equipment needed to compete now, let alone what would be required if upkeep were raised.

Let's say, at the moment the average player uses 35k worth of equipment (this is just an example, the number itself doesn't matter). If you raise upkeep, then the average player will start to use less costly equipment, say 25k worth. What this means is that a new player needs less costly equipment, relatively, in order to compete with the average player and feel useful. This means that new players will have an EASIER time because they can get the equipment they need to compete at a lower level. Get what I'm saying?

TL:DR, All else being equal, raising upkeep HELPS new players.

I should qualify that statement by saying, this is assuming that the raises in upkeep come in the form of either increased break chance or increased repair cost. If they come instead in the form of increased buy cost of items, then raising upkeep does not help new players, but it does not penalize them either, so long as the total price for competitive equipment stays below 95000 gold. Combination increases in the aforementioned mechanisms would help new players, but less so.

Are we talking 'moneybags' AFTER we had upkeep or before? Because I've made a good amount of gold AFTER upkeep was implemented. In fact that's where I've gained most of it. So are we now punishing players who aren't stupid noobs who buy stuff they can afford to maintain and play well enough to generate positive gold?

Like I said, this is the only solution, but only if you consider moneybags to be a problem. Personally, I'm in the same boat as you. I only started playing after upkeep, and I've been steadily making money the entire time. That plus the fact that I sold a loom point, means that I could effectively ignore upkeep if I wanted, although I'm saving up for a MW HBS so I'm actually still very much paying attention to upkeep.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2011, 09:06:58 pm by Panoply »

Offline rustyspoon

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Re: Please make everything outrageously expensive.
« Reply #38 on: August 19, 2011, 10:21:17 pm »
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I don't know how many times I have to say it, but raising upkeep proportionally brings everyone down. Relative strength, guys... New players will not need as good gear as they do now to compete if everyone else is also using mid tier stuff. In fact, assuming gold gain is untouched, increased upkeep will actually *HELP* new players. Stay with me here...

It takes 1,929,158 exp to reach level 26, at which point, you lose upkeep amnesty and have to start paying bills. Before this point, you get all the gold you've earned. At 1000 exp: 50 gold, you would get approximately 96458 gold in that time, all yours. This is plenty of gold to buy the high tier equipment needed to compete now, let alone what would be required if upkeep were raised.

Let's say, at the moment the average player uses 35k worth of equipment (this is just an example, the number itself doesn't matter). If you raise upkeep, then the average player will start to use less costly equipment, say 25k worth. What this means is that a new player needs less costly equipment, relatively, in order to compete with the average player and feel useful. This means that new players will have an EASIER time because they can get the equipment they need to compete at a lower level. Get what I'm saying?

TL:DR, All else being equal, raising upkeep HELPS new players.

I should qualify that statement by saying, this is assuming that the raises in upkeep come in the form of either increased break chance or increased repair cost. If they come instead in the form of increased buy cost of items, then raising upkeep does not help new players, but it does not penalize them either, so long as the total price for competitive equipment stays below 95000 gold. Combination increases in the aforementioned mechanisms would help new players, but less so.

Like I said, this is the only solution, but only if you consider moneybags to be a problem. Personally, I'm in the same boat as you. I only started playing after upkeep, and I've been steadily making money the entire time. That plus the fact that I sold a loom point, means that I could effectively ignore upkeep if I wanted, although I'm saving up for a MW HBS so I'm actually still very much paying attention to upkeep.

I agree with all of this. I would like to see the high-tier stuff be something special and the only way to really do that is to dramatically increase the upkeep on it. I'm pretty sure the devs want this game to center around mid-tier gear and this would help achieve it.

I've always used mid-tier gear on all of my characters and it's very viable to use. Also, with the amount of money you make using mid-tier gear (I make truckloads) you can use it to pull out better stuff every once in a while for some fun.
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Offline zagibu

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Re: Please make everything outrageously expensive.
« Reply #39 on: August 20, 2011, 08:55:16 pm »
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I've always used mid-tier gear on all of my characters and it's very viable to use. Also, with the amount of money you make using mid-tier gear (I make truckloads) you can use it to pull out better stuff every once in a while for some fun.

So what exactly is wrong with the current system? It seems to work just fine. But yeah, why not increase upkeep dramatically and make most top tier items disappear completely. Then they can be removed from the game and everyone will profit from a smaller download size.

This sounds like archer-lobbying.
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