Why is everything getting balanced except Crush Through?

[Gorath]

but Gorath did some weird test were a 3 agi character was not outspammed by a 27 or 30 agi one. I call bs on that

Actually the exact character build using a masterworked barmace (picked up from wallace) was:
Level 30
Strength: 27
Agility: 12
Hit points: 76

Converted: 8
Ironflesh: 7
Power Strike: 9
Shield: 0
Athletics: 4
Riding: 0
Horse Archery: 0
Power Draw: 0
Power Throw: 0
Weapon Master: 3

One Handed: 1
Two Handed: 132
Polearm: 1
Archery: 1
Crossbow: 1
Throwing: 1

I'd be happy to test again with you in the duel server, except you'll have to wait for my next retirement as I retired once I hit 31, heirloomed my Mancleaver and am now trying a more balanced build (18/21).

[DrKronic]

Gorath lies I was other side of the argument and yes the non unbalanced 92 speed 120 length weapons will outspam a high str bar macer because of fancy footwork= your out of range during the opponents turn

The problem in a siege short weapons are great because of close quarters and being funneled into castle from (usually) one maybe two directions

The bar mace will probably be nerfed to oblivion but honestly blocking constantly shouldn't be an always win

92 speed is almost ten less than the best sickles/war hammers/sideswords spamitars and it is shorter and unbalanced compared to equivalent other top tier twohand or polearms

I am not on any alarm lists so I must be average and I can counter all crushthrough weapons with any class

It fulfills a role rmb should not equal untouchable u can just as easily make a high agility 5 shield skill with a heavy board shield(11 lbs) and never be crushed by a 4.5 lb mace

Everyone wants to use light shields and light fast weapons and complain that the incredible bulk crushed their wimp block when they should have stabbed and pedaled

[zagibu]

Mount & Blade is a game made by turks, so the units are kg, not lbs. Would be pretty light otherwise. Also, what do you mean, 10 shorter than the best sickles/warhammers/side swords? It's not much shorter than swords (side sword is 95 cm) and much longer than any 1h pick, hammer or axe. Or were you talking about 2h weapons? They don't have sickles, though, and 2h hammers are also much shorter...

Just noticed you were talking about speed...i'm tired. anything above 90 speed is pretty fast, though...

[tankmen]

Gorath lies I was other side of the argument and yes the non unbalanced 92 speed 120 length weapons will outspam a high str bar macer because of fancy footwork= your out of range during the opponents turn

The problem in a siege short weapons are great because of close quarters and being funneled into castle from (usually) one maybe two directions

The bar mace will probably be nerfed to oblivion but honestly blocking constantly shouldn't be an always win

92 speed is almost ten less than the best sickles/war hammers/sideswords spamitars and it is shorter and unbalanced compared to equivalent other top tier twohand or polearms

I am not on any alarm lists so I must be average and I can counter all crushthrough weapons with any class

It fulfills a role rmb should not equal untouchable u can just as easily make a high agility 5 shield skill with a heavy board shield(11 lbs) and never be crushed by a 4.5 lb mace

Everyone wants to use light shields and light fast weapons and complain that the incredible bulk crushed their wimp block when they should have stabbed and pedaled

i hope you mean blocking with a shield cause if someone can Manuel block , he deserves to win 

[Kafein]

Fix this and the fact the polearm+shield looses against an HA, then cRPG will become 57,9% more enjoyable for everyone in average.

[Heroin]

Fix this and the fact the polearm+shield looses against an HA, then cRPG will become 57,9% more enjoyable for everyone in average.

shield + polearm loses to HA?

I don't think this is accurate. An HA may kill a shield + polearm user while they're fighting someone else, but so can any other build. With a decent shield, you can just about soak up all of the HA's arrows. And he can't bump/shoot you because you'll stop his horse before he bumps you.

1v1, the polearm user will likely win this fight. However, you're rarely 1v1, polearm/shield vs HA. And if the HA has someone distracting you while they shoot you in the back, then they're doing a good job of being an HA.

Working as intended, imo.

[Gorath]

lol Kronic you never fought me in the duel server we simply yelled arguments back and forth through TS while I was dueling people.  The barmace can't just be outspammed.  You can't bring up the 92 speed, unbalanced as some kind of proof of this because hell my mancleaver is 92 speed and unbalanced without crush through and I can't just be outspammed except MAYBE by some highly unlikely gimmick build designed specifically to do just that.

As for

honestly blocking constantly shouldn't be an always win

I still think you're trolling just like when you said this over VOIP.  The illogical nature of this statement is just mind boggling.  Blocking constantly should absolutely be an always win if the opponent fails at it.  He who blocks better is better.  That's how it works.  It means he's reading feints, footwork, range and is still capable of making the correct judgement and movement in that moment.  I mean going by your statement I want a weapon that disarms people when I block with it.  After all, attacking shouldn't be an always win.

[Ganon]

lol Kronic you never fought me in the duel server we simply yelled arguments back and forth through TS while I was dueling people.  The barmace can't just be outspammed.  You can't bring up the 92 speed, unbalanced as some kind of proof of this because hell my mancleaver is 92 speed and unbalanced without crush through and I can't just be outspammed except MAYBE by some highly unlikely gimmick build designed specifically to do just that.

As for  I still think you're trolling just like when you said this over VOIP.  The illogical nature of this statement is just mind boggling.  Blocking constantly should absolutely be an always win if the opponent fails at it.  He who blocks better is better.  That's how it works.  It means he's reading feints, footwork, range and is still capable of making the correct judgement and movement in that moment.  I mean going by your statement I want a weapon that disarms people when I block with it.  After all, attacking shouldn't be an always win.

Can you manually block an arrow ?

[Gorath]

Can you manually block an arrow ?

No, but you can chamber it.   

*Ranged doesn't count in these discussions obviously *

[Rumblood]

No, but you can chamber it.   

*Ranged doesn't count in these discussions obviously *

Indeed, I've chambered an arrow and with my bow to boot 

[Kalbuth]

As for [...]  I still think you're trolling just like when you said this over VOIP.  The illogical nature of this statement is just mind boggling.  Blocking constantly should absolutely be an always win if the opponent fails at it.  He who blocks better is better.  That's how it works.  It means he's reading feints, footwork, range and is still capable of making the correct judgement and movement in that moment.  I mean going by your statement I want a weapon that disarms people when I block with it.  After all, attacking shouldn't be an always win.

In case he was talking about shield blocking, he was making sense. Feint and range are irrelevant when blocking with a shield, and movement, well.... duh.... face your opponent 

[DarkFox]

Blocking constantly should absolutely be an always win if the opponent fails at it.

No.Block is a smal part of complicated combat system,fighting against crushthrough means using more distance and timing,or having heavy shield and high strength.Player can be not very skilled blocker,but he can be good in moving for example.Thats the main problem most of crpg players,they think that if they are good manual blockers they are skilled,but the real skill is to do something good except blocking,because blocking isnt hard,two days of training and you will be the best blocker in the world .And when players cant kill oponent by simple blocking/feinting,they are coming to forums  and,instead of trying understand the mechanics, whine about OP swords,mauls,polearms...BUT I agree,barmace with 30 strenght is fast,crushthrough weapon shoudnt have such high speed.

[dontgothere]

No.Block is a smal part of complicated combat system,fighting against crushthrough means using more distance and timing,or having heavy shield and high strength.Player can be not very skilled blocker,but he can be good in moving for example.Thats the main problem most of crpg players,they think that if they are good manual blockers they are skilled,but the real skill is to do something good except blocking,because blocking isnt hard,two days of training and you will be the best blocker in the world .And when players cant kill oponent by simple blocking/feinting,they are coming to forums  and,instead of trying understand the mechanics, whine about OP swords,mauls,polearms...

+1 !   

[DrKronic]

This was my point and I was talking about crushing shielders and also footwork and the longer 92 speed 2h and polearms do outspam a bar mace

Same goes for my masterwork katana

Now gorath argued a masterwork bar mace vs a regular weapon wins

Well sure a masterwork anything wins be it a lawlpike a lolarm a lolsword or whatever

Compare equivalent highest tier weapons and involve footwork not just block and u beat the unbalanced mace
 
This goes for all weapons

Gorath likes to use weapons that are not best in class

Good for you but don't come whining when u don't win, bring a miadao at least or compare my plus two greatsword u can outspam a bar mace

Stand still and trade hits with a crush thru guy with half my agility? Smells like failures

[Dexxtaa]

I have no problem with bar maces. They're fun to play with and to play against.

Besides, it's always fun to have someone who doesn't drop in two hits and requires.. oh I don't know... teamwork maybe ?

It's like hunting bear with a spear. People like Wallace or Goretooth are fun to have on the server against, even if you consistently lose, simply because it's a nice escape from the mundane that is the grind.

Then you get fun characters like PrincessProtectMe, who still change the game up in terms of tactics.