Why is everything getting balanced except Crush Through?

[Heroin]

Axes and nothing else are supposed to be a counter to shields, if shields need a counter at all.

This is obviously false, since crush through is in the game. As an opinion, it is faulty. Axes have bonus vs shield, yes. But they are also unbalanced and fairly slow. Since no axe is going to one-shot a huscarl shield wielded by a competent shielder, you will find yourself being spammed by the likes of balbaroth, matey, and his ilk before you EVER break their shields.

Furthermore, you get a bonus to weapon weight against crush through for polearms and two-handers(their weight is multiplied x3 for calculating whether or not they block crush through). So if you dislike crush through that much, choose a heavy weapon. A weapon with 4 weight will be pretty effective at blocking crush through.

(P.S. The polearm blocking being multiplied x3 is confirmed. Unconfirmed on the 2h blocking.)

[Puerco]

Yep, it is a mighty power...1 movement to victory...Sometime crush through a shield should stunt instead of hurting (unrealistic but this a game), in some random way.

[Magikarp]

It's balanced in my opinion, going full str makes you dead slow, almost impossible to spam that overhead strike.
Only if you are wearing full plate, which you probably wont do a lot, you would be effective.

Please don't take it away from the maces.

[cmp]

(P.S. The polearm blocking being multiplied x3 is confirmed. Unconfirmed on the 2h blocking.)

Not really, no.
Polearms and 2h get their base blocking factor (weight * 0.2 + 5.0) multiplied by 1.2 .

[Heroin]

Not really, no.
Polearms and 2h get their base blocking factor (weight * 0.2 + 5.0) multiplied by 1.2 .

Good to know the actual formula. So theoretically, pretty much ANY polearm or two-hander should block most crush through weapons fairly well, except for the great maul.

Though, in my experience, polearms tend to block great maul overheads more often than a huscarl shield does. This shouldn't be the case with that formula. Is it possible shields get an inherent penalty to their crush resistance?

[Kaelaen]

Unsure about the skill factor on great maul, I am about as proficient in melee as a watery tart (my best record on a duel server was 2:24) yet I can maintain an even KD:R just fine by hiding behind a corner and waiting for turtles to come through.  As an archer.  Doesn't seem right, hardly high-risk when even if they know what's coming most people just can't do anything about it when I'm right behind a corner.  Even out in the open it's easy to hit the I Win button by waiting till a teammate distracts whoever I'm fighting long enough for me to come at them from the side.  Never met anyone who can survive two hits.

If only there were a way to nerf corners.  Then I might need to actually learn how to, you know, block swing faster.

[MountedRhader]

I think crushthrough is fine.. Matter o' fact, I think everything is good as it is with cRPG now. 

[Joker86]

This is obviously false, since crush through is in the game.

Ahhhh! Damn! And all the time I was thinking that plated chargers and shit were OP, but they weren't, as they were in the game! 

As an opinion, it is faulty. Axes have bonus vs shield, yes. But they are also unbalanced and fairly slow. Since no axe is going to one-shot a huscarl shield wielded by a competent shielder, you will find yourself being spammed by the likes of balbaroth, matey, and his ilk before you EVER break their shields.

This can't be a problem, as people also score kills with weapons having less than 101 weapon speed. 

Furthermore, you get a bonus to weapon weight against crush through for polearms and two-handers(their weight is multiplied x3 for calculating whether or not they block crush through). So if you dislike crush through that much, choose a heavy weapon. A weapon with 4 weight will be pretty effective at blocking crush through.

I don't have a problem with blockcrushing weapons at all, I die to a blockcrush once in two weeks I would say. It's just that I feel sorry for those poor slow turtles, getting their build made entirely useless, and grudge the crush through (ab)users their way too easy kills.

[Heroin]

Ahhhh! Damn! And all the time I was thinking that plated chargers and shit were OP, but they weren't, as they were in the game! 

You stated, "Axes and nothing else are supposed to be a counter to shields", as if you were the lone authority on how the game is supposed to be. I pointed out that this is, in fact, incorrect. You have nothing to do with the making or balancing of the game, so saying what is or is not supposed to be a counter to shields is not your job.

Had you stated it as an opinion, I would not have replied as I did, but you stated it as fact.

[Beauchamp]

i'm not against crushthrough (even for weapons like morningstar or barmace), but this should be available only for specialized full str builds like daymun or robin hoods have. they sacrifice a lot in agility, no shield etc... so they can get this crushthrough bonus even for these weapons.

crushthrough for great maul or that long maul (or whatever its called) is ok, anybody can fight back against these slow weapons.

[Ganon]

i'm not against crushthrough (even for weapons like morningstar or barmace), but this should be available only for specialized full str builds like daymun or robin hoods have. they sacrifice a lot in agility, no shield etc... so they can get this crushthrough bonus even for these weapons.

crushthrough for great maul or that long maul (or whatever its called) is ok, anybody can fight back against these slow weapons.

Yep exactly what i said, upgrade the requirement on those weapons or make a minumum strength required to be able to crush through at all, so the full str characters won't be gimped. The imbalance came from more agile characters being able to swing too fast with a barmace and getting a too high chance of crushing through.

[Joker86]

You stated, "Axes and nothing else are supposed to be a counter to shields", as if you were the lone authority on how the game is supposed to be. I pointed out that this is, in fact, incorrect. You have nothing to do with the making or balancing of the game, so saying what is or is not supposed to be a counter to shields is not your job.

Had you stated it as an opinion, I would not have replied as I did, but you stated it as fact.

Okay, sorry then for trolling you. But I thought it was understood that everything what I write is my opinion. Whenever I bring a fact I tell you why I think it's a fact, that's the reason why many of my posts are that long.

Regarding the CT: I think CT was meant to be a counter against everything, as it doesn't only break through shields but also through blocks and even chamber blocks. The idea was to give the players a "all or nothing"-weapon, and in Native, without custom character stats, it's more often "nothing" than "all".

But the fact that you can push your stats in cRPG brings a high risk of such weapons becoming OP, as players can skill to minimize the negative effects, to benefit of the superior positive effects.

To make things balanced, and to let those weapons work as intended, I would recommend to make no CT weapon under difficulty 21. This would help representing all those "body builders" on the field, as everyone between STR 12 and 18 is only of mediocre strength. Only guys like the German from "Kingdom of Heaven" should be supposed to hit through blocks, to make up for their poor agility. And he would have had at least STR 24 or 27, but probably 36 

For everyone who doesn't know who I am talking of, it's the guy in the middle:

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[Killface_]

For what its worth i agree with tai and joker, only slow weapons  should have this insanely powerfull mechanic.

[Brutal]

i'm not against crushthrough (even for weapons like morningstar or barmace), but this should be available only for specialized full str builds like daymun or robin hoods have. they sacrifice a lot in agility, no shield etc... so they can get this crushthrough bonus even for these weapons.

If you don't have a heirloomed barmace, you will need a very high strength build to crush trough regularly anyway. So you'll need something like 9-10 PS to crushtrough half the time or so (from my exprience with strengh build, my opinion  )
The dev just need to make it so that the barmace stay the same weight once heirloomed and problem solved. But i wouldn't mind if only mallet, maul, great maul and long maul had crush trough. 

[Cheesecake]

fuck i read "why is everything balanced except crushtrhough" and came here to rage....

then i noticed the "getting"

kind sir im sure they will eventually get to it. the devs arent getting paid as far as i know so let them go at their own pace.