Op Xbows!

[Leshma]

True. You're one of better archers I've seen.

But in archers defense I must say that they don't shoot into melee fights as they used to, they either evolved or all idiots went xbow

[polkafranzi]

bump

cos xbows are OP

and it's the fact that 80% of people carry one these days, really fail.  i got screens to prove it ^^

[MrShine]

bump

cos xbows are OP

and it's the fact that 80% of people carry one these days, really fail.  i got screens to prove it ^^

I think arbalest is probably fine.  It is very rare anything survives 2 hits, it would have to have been a long distance shot one of those or mega str builds in plate.   But that weapon reloads so goddamn slow it depends on 1-2 shotting most players.  Change that to 2-3 shotting and I guarantee usage would drop like a rock (which is a bad thing since it's for dedicated xbowmen).

I think if you start with leaving the arbalest as is and work your way down that might be the better approach to balancing.  With the recent changes to cut damage the xbow pierce is invaluable when compared to most of the other bows (long bow as exception.. hmm funny how that bow has exploded in popularity eh?). 

Maybe that means tweaking wpf for xbows; have base 1wpf xbow reticle be awful but make higher wpf levels reduce it back to how it is now.  Maybe that means reducing pierce damage a bit for the lower xbows, I don't know.

[Tears of Destiny]

I am fine with the arbalest, I just have a problem with everyone still carrying the top 1 slot Crossbow as a sidearm.

[Fasader]

What some of you are suggesting:
One handed:         29799 (19.96%)
Two handed:        44510 (29.82%)
Polearms:         47422 (31.77%)
Bow:            11412 (7.65%)
Crossbows:          997233 (94.85%)
Thrown:          1563 (1.05%)
Headshot:          5235 (3.51%)
Horsebump:          2055 (1.38%)
Others:            44 (0.03%)
Teamkills:          4904 (3.29%)

Actual numbers:

One handed:         29799 (19.96%)
Two handed:        44510 (29.82%)
Polearms:         47422 (31.77%)
Bow:            11412 (7.65%)
Crossbows:          7233 (4.85%)
Thrown:          1563 (1.05%)
Headshot:          5235 (3.51%)
Horsebump:          2055 (1.38%)
Others:            44 (0.03%)
Teamkills:          4904 (3.29%)

I mean seriously, if there's 80% people packing crossbows how do they get only 4.85% kills? You'd think it's time to buff crossbows if you listened to all the anti-xbow whiners.

[Tears of Destiny]

What some of you are suggesting:
One handed:         29799 (19.96%)
Two handed:        44510 (29.82%)
Polearms:         47422 (31.77%)
Bow:            11412 (7.65%)
Crossbows:          997233 (94.85%)
Thrown:          1563 (1.05%)
Headshot:          5235 (3.51%)
Horsebump:          2055 (1.38%)
Others:            44 (0.03%)
Teamkills:          4904 (3.29%)

Actual numbers:

One handed:         29799 (19.96%)
Two handed:        44510 (29.82%)
Polearms:         47422 (31.77%)
Bow:            11412 (7.65%)
Crossbows:          7233 (4.85%)
Thrown:          1563 (1.05%)
Headshot:          5235 (3.51%)
Horsebump:          2055 (1.38%)
Others:            44 (0.03%)
Teamkills:          4904 (3.29%)

I mean seriously, if there's 80% people packing crossbows how do they get only 4.85% kills? You'd think it's time to buff crossbows if you listened to all the anti-xbow whiners.

Well most people bitch that they are tired of seeing so many projectiles (I personaly am just tired of seeing so many crossbows period, even if they can't hit shit due to the vast amount of 1 wpf users).
Do you have numbers that have the amount of users who use the things though so we can find the ratio of users/effectiveness? Otherwise, you seriously need to buff Horsebump too, and I mean really buff horsebump, and throwing too.

[MrShine]

Good to see stats to bring things down to earth.  A few important questions still exist though:

- Those are kill percentages (I'm assuming for EU servers only).  However what about player usage %?  I would be willing to bet there are more than double the amount of archers out there compared to dedicated xbowmen, which could be a large reason for the low kill  %

-Headshot: throws things off but I guess is a moot point since bow throwing and xbow would all increase a bit.

-The 'sidearm problem' is probably invisible in those stats.  80% (ok not really that much)  could just as easily be using a cheap xbow as a sidearm to fire off a few shots before engaging on melee.  They thus weaken the enemy but get the kill via their melee weapon.


And yeah clearly it's time to triple horsebump damage.

E: FU ToD your forum reply skillz have bested me yet again!

[polkafranzi]

Well most people bitch that they are tired of seeing so many projectiles (I personaly am just tired of seeing so many crossbows period, even if they can't hit shit due to the vast amount of 1 wpf users).

this

[Memento_Mori]

What some of you are suggesting:
One handed:         29799 (19.96%)
Two handed:        44510 (29.82%)
Polearms:         47422 (31.77%)
Bow:            11412 (7.65%)
Crossbows:          997233 (94.85%)
Thrown:          1563 (1.05%)
Headshot:          5235 (3.51%)
Horsebump:          2055 (1.38%)
Others:            44 (0.03%)
Teamkills:          4904 (3.29%)

Actual numbers:

One handed:         29799 (19.96%)
Two handed:        44510 (29.82%)
Polearms:         47422 (31.77%)
Bow:            11412 (7.65%)
Crossbows:          7233 (4.85%)
Thrown:          1563 (1.05%)
Headshot:          5235 (3.51%)
Horsebump:          2055 (1.38%)
Others:            44 (0.03%)
Teamkills:          4904 (3.29%)

I mean seriously, if there's 80% people packing crossbows how do they get only 4.85% kills? You'd think it's time to buff crossbows if you listened to all the anti-xbow whiners.

Am I the only one in this stupid game that thinks Kills mean nothing, it's the damage you do to your opponent. These stats are really pointless imo, since it only shows who gets the last hit most of the time, which of course would not be the slow reloading crossbow, or the slightly faster bows, or horse bumps,  or the uber low ammunition and low damage throwing.

Most xbows have a melee weapon, just recently I've gone xbow for the first time for strat, I sit in one spot usually a tower or hill and shoot and shoot until they come to get me then I whip out my mw melee weapon and 1 hit them. This obviously means we should buff xbows because I make all my kills with my melee weapon whilst only being able to weaken them with my xbow.. xD


on topic, crossbows are pretty much fine, you pay mass upkeep if you don't have any proficiency in your crossbow. Then again with new WPF scaling it's stupid not to hybrid at least 1 other proficiency.

[Fasader]

Good to see stats to bring things down to earth.  A few important questions still exist though:

- Those are kill percentages (I'm assuming for EU servers only).  However what about player usage %?  I would be willing to bet there are more than double the amount of archers out there compared to dedicated xbowmen, which could be a large reason for the low kill  %

-Headshot: throws things off but I guess is a moot point since bow throwing and xbow would all increase a bit.

-The 'sidearm problem' is probably invisible in those stats.  80% (ok not really that much)  could just as easily be using a cheap xbow as a sidearm to fire off a few shots before engaging on melee.  They thus weaken the enemy but get the kill via their melee weapon.


And yeah clearly it's time to triple horsebump damage.

E: FU ToD your forum reply skillz have bested me yet again!

player usage is obviously 80%.

[[ptx]]

Just how many % of kills did bows make before the last nerf? Or before the previous one? Or the one before that, when they were WAAAAAAAY OP? Hmm? % of kills isn't the stat to balance things around...

[MrShine]

player usage is obviously 80%.

80% is an obvious exaggeration.  I never used it seriously, that was someone I quoted.

But saying 4.85% of kills come from xbows adds just as little to the issue of "too many xbow sidearms", for the reasons that a lot of people above have already mentioned.

Damage dealt and % of people equipping X weapon are much much better indicators.

[polkafranzi]

80% is an obvious exaggeration.  I never used it seriously, that was someone I quoted.

But saying 4.85% of kills come from xbows adds just as little to the issue of "too many xbow sidearms", for the reasons that a lot of people above have already mentioned.

Damage dealt and % of people equipping X weapon are much much better indicators.

It was me, I was just raging when i said 80%, but i checked my screens from the spawn of 1 battle revolution (on Eu1), where i screenshotted everybody as they spawned, and it's about 25% carrying an xbow, and then another 20% using bow, with a couple of throwers added in.  So...50% is ranged from that example, and the other 50% is pretty much 2hers and cav. 

[Tore]

1. Put some skills into shield.
2. Buy a shield
3. ????
4. Profit.

[polkafranzi]

1. Put some skills into the most boring class of all.
2. Buy a boring piece of defensive equipment.
3. Join grey order.
4. Fail.