Weight of shields.

[Different]

if you are trying to fight like a 2h, of course you are gonna fail. 2h is a mainly offensive class, shielder is defensive, so of course 2h is going to get more kills. A characters value on the battlefield is not measured solely by kills.
a shielder has the ability to BLOCK ALL PROJECTILES SHOT AT HIM. Shielders have a much better chance of survivability and are more useful in a team melee situation if played properly. Also shielders are great for moving into areas where there are lots of enemies such as getting on a wall and disrupting the defenders there.

I agree with that.

Imo the shields weight is good atm, when you look which advantage you have in some situations. Also I think devs try to stay as realistic as possible ( beside of Al_Adin... whatever)

[Spawny]

Shieldweight protects vs crushthrough, as it's one of the factors that decides wether the crushthrough will happen or not.

Try crushing a wooden shield with a mallet and then try the same with a steel shield.

Also, it takes a good 3-4 hits to kill an 18/18 6 IF players in 50-60 body armour with crushthroughs from a great maul if they're holding up a steel shield.
Doesn't matter though, cuz the stun you get from gettin crushed is long enough for the enemy to land his next overhead.

So high shield weight has an advantage too.

[Wookimonsta]

Shield weight protects against maulers, ykno.

oh yeh, that too

[El_Infante]

Shieldweight protects vs crushthrough, as it's one of the factors that decides wether the crushthrough will happen or not.

Try crushing a wooden shield with a mallet and then try the same with a steel shield.

Also, it takes a good 3-4 hits to kill an 18/18 6 IF players in 50-60 body armour with crushthroughs from a great maul if they're holding up a steel shield.
Doesn't matter though, cuz the stun you get from gettin crushed is long enough for the enemy to land his next overhead.

So high shield weight has an advantage too.

So lowing weight of crushtrough weapon is the solution, not increasing weight of shields.

[[ptx]]

Lowering weight of mauls would nerf them against everything, which isn't necessary.

[Gorath]

A characters value on the battlefield is not measured solely by kills.

Until something else starts showing up on the scoreboard, then yes it is.

[Mala]

Even with sthe steel shield you dont block the heavy mauls.
And you dont block all projectiles, you are still vulnerable from the sides and the back. And sometimes a lucky shoot gets you from the front (and i use bigger shields as well).

[Tears of Destiny]

Until something else starts showing up on the scoreboard, then yes it is.

Remind me to stop dehorsing my usual 2-4 cav a round then and see how well you fuckers perform on my team. Ready for the challenge boost?

[Blondin]

Imo be an average shielder is easier than to be an average 2handers.
But be a good shielder is harder than to be a good 2hander.
There is plenty of average shielders, plenty of good 2handers, but just a few shielders are good.

[Gorath]

Ready for the challenge boost?

Yep.  Sorry man, but other than the forums I wouldn't remember any of your toons because you're not topping the scoreboard regularly.  Those are the players that get remembered.  The ManOWars, Balbs, Goretooths, Cyranules, etc etc.

Everyone else is completely forgettable.  "Hey, you know whats-his-name?  You know, the dude that hovers in the center of the scoreboard alot?"

 

[Tears of Destiny]

Yep.  Sorry man, but other than the forums I wouldn't remember any of your toons because you're not topping the scoreboard regularly.  Those are the players that get remembered.  The ManOWars, Balbs, Goretooths, Cyranules, etc etc.

Everyone else is completely forgettable.  "Hey, you know whats-his-name?  You know, the dude that hovers in the center of the scoreboard alot?"

 

Honestly, there is a difference between being a good player ("A characters value on the battlefield") and being memorable. I would rather be forgotten and take out a significant amount of cav to allow my team to win (as multipliers are cool yo) then be remembered and cause endless "EFFING fagchers!" and have a top scoring toon. I also doubt that people know or would bother remembering all of my toons anyways considering it is a double digit figure...

Don't mix up Value with Kills.

[Ylca]

Your poll is a push poll and thus useless, you compare one specific instance (heavy kite vs great maul) or a statement on all shields (all shields should be lighter). Fix your poll unless your a fan of Fox news style "fair and balanced".

Beyond that, as a shielder i don't see the problem at all. I have never felt the weight of shields was unfair as it isn't a realism issue, it's a balance issue. Shields do require technique to be used properly but they are an amazing defensive tool, and as such should come with some drawbacks. Add in the fact that 2handed weapons have a multiplier that adds to their weight penalty to athletics while shields and 1handers don't and you'll see why there is no problem in the current system at all.

That great maul is listed at 8 weight but counts for well more in terms of penalty to movement speed.

The more you know.

[Lech]

Your poll is a push poll and thus useless, you compare one specific instance (heavy kite vs great maul) or a statement on all shields (all shields should be lighter). Fix your poll unless your a fan of Fox news style "fair and balanced".

Beyond that, as a shielder i don't see the problem at all. I have never felt the weight of shields was unfair as it isn't a realism issue, it's a balance issue. Shields do require technique to be used properly but they are an amazing defensive tool, and as such should come with some drawbacks. Add in the fact that 2handed weapons have a multiplier that adds to their weight penalty to athletics while shields and 1handers don't and you'll see why there is no problem in the current system at all.

That great maul is listed at 8 weight but counts for well more in terms of penalty to movement speed.

The more you know.

Actually, it's 1h that have penalty to running speed. If you take 2h with weight 2.0 and 1h with weight 1.5, all other things being equal both of them will move with the same speed. Waltz4 tested it.

[Ylca]

Actually, it's 1h that have penalty to running speed. If you take 2h with weight 2.0 and 1h with weight 1.5, all other things being equal both of them will move with the same speed. Waltz4 tested it.

I could have sworn it was the other way around, but now i'm going to have to check as you may be right. If this is the case then yes, shield weight could use revisiting.

e: And i was very wrong.

From this plot it can be seen that an increase in weapon length will increase run time for a given weapon weight, and an increase in weapon weight will increase run time for a given weapon length. One-handed weapons appear to count as more weight than two-handed or polearm weapons of the same in game weight for the purposes of this run time increase:

Listed one-handed weapon weight                      Effective weight for calculation
                 1                                                                         1.5
                1.5                                                                        2
                 2                                                                          3

http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,3278.msg58740.html#msg58740

The word of walt has spoken.

[Gorath]

Honestly, there is a difference between being a good player ("A characters value on the battlefield") and being memorable. I would rather be forgotten and take out a significant amount of cav to allow my team to win (as multipliers are cool yo) then be remembered and cause endless "EFFING fagchers!" and have a top scoring toon. I also doubt that people know or would bother remembering all of my toons anyways considering it is a double digit figure...

Don't mix up Value with Kills.

At the end of the day the only way to actually guage a player's value is the scoreboard.  You can SAY that you did blah blah blah to contribute, but people only remember the guy that's 20+/2 on the board.

I do get your point, I play a support role too with my spear n' shield vs cav and chasing down archers while the heavy hitters go mop up.  But at the end of the day I'm in the middle on most boards and noone will ever know that I dehorsed 3 guys and caused 4 archers to stop firing (through fear or death).  Just the way it goes.

Once again, a better scoreboard with stuff like horse kills, assists and such would go a long way to changing peoples cooperation, teamwork and priorities imo.