Author Topic: A tought from you on Xbows  (Read 3390 times)

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Offline Prpavi

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A tought from you on Xbows
« on: August 02, 2011, 02:03:53 pm »
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Ok im not making any nerf/buff statements here I want to hear from you and see your experience using them and against them.

since im playing a weakling archer i am aware of my low armour and i get 1 shot from xbows all the time, im wandering whats the medium/heavy armour guy experience with this and how do you feel about their accuracy and if you think their damage is appropriate.

debate.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2011, 11:31:54 pm by Kalam »
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Offline Chasey

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Re: A tought from you on Xbows
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2011, 02:38:24 pm »
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i have about 65 body armour with 7 IF and a normal arbalest will do about 3/4 of my hp in 1 hit and a mw about 4/5.
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Offline Hirlok

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Re: A tought from you on Xbows
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2011, 02:45:31 pm »
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Get one-hitted in medium armor quite a lot on my alt char.

There are two points about xbows that make me grumble:

  • damage should be a lot higher than the better bows, but not THAT high (currently Arbalest has almost 4x the pierce damage of a Longbow - which is a joke, historically and balance-wise
  • accuracy is high and should be high - I'm fine with that. Unfortunately there is still no requirement for handling xbows besides strength, so any idiot can pick one up and oneshot people with 0 skill and more accuracy than most reasonably skilled archers... which is LOLable at best.

oh, actually there is a third point, but that is more about bows than xbows: missile speed of xbows makes sense, but compared to that of bows it is too high, or better that of the bows is too low, used to be ok two patches back...
« Last Edit: August 02, 2011, 02:48:39 pm by Hirlok »
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Offline Spawny

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Re: A tought from you on Xbows
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2011, 02:46:49 pm »
+2
There's a very big thread about this in the game balance discussion and paul did the math about arbalest damage on various amounts of armour.

(Raw) damage is randomised sligthly(0.9-1.0) but both of the following armor soak and reduce calculation armor is randomised by 0.5 to 1.0. So with higher the armor level the target has, the wider is the possible damage range.

Example:
MW Arbalest with MW steel bolts -> base_damage = 100p

against naked, point blank, body shot:
90 to 100 damage (aka certain death)

against 30 (body) armor, point blank, body shot:
55 to 81 damage, 67 avr, damage span = 81 - 55 = 26

against 50 armor, point blank, body shot:
38 to 70 damage, 52 avr, damage span = 70 - 38 = 32

against 70 armor, point blank, body shot:
25 to 61 damage, 40 avr, damage span = 61 - 25 = 36

As you can see, it can take as much as 3 point blank body shots to kill a target with 7IF and 65 armour.
When it's raining, it will take 1 or 2 additional hits.

Damage should be a lot higher than the better bows, but not THAT high (currently Arbalest has almost 4x the pierce damage of a Longbow - which is a joke, historically and balance-wise.

Arbalest deals just over 3x the damage a longbow does.
Arbalest does not get a damage increase from wpf and PD, which the longbow does.
Arbalest is about 3x slower in firing rate compared to the longbow.
In the end, the arbalest deals about 2x the damage of a longbow (after damage increasing effects) and is a lot slower.
Sounds balanced to me.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2011, 02:51:58 pm by Spawny »
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Offline Dexxtaa

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Re: A tought from you on Xbows
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2011, 02:51:33 pm »
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I'm wondering what's the medium/heavy armour guy experience with this and how do you feel about their accuracy and if you think their damage is appropriate.

It's fine.

Crossbows trade off mobility and reload speed for hard hitting firepower. The fact that you're getting hit by them might mean that you're not moving enough, or just getting unlucky.

Chaos has a crossbow corps that do fine, mostly because they use a lot of high ground, and take a lot of cover (a la counter strike, I still give them crap for it).

As a heavy, I find that crossbow hits only hurt when I get hit in the head within the effective range of the bolts.

In my medium armor, it takes 3 hits to drop me, which to me is one too many for a normal man, even in mail.
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Offline Visus

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Re: A tought from you on Xbows
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2011, 07:48:22 pm »
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It's fine.

Crossbows trade off mobility and reload speed for hard hitting firepower. The fact that you're getting hit by them might mean that you're not moving enough, or just getting unlucky.

Chaos has a crossbow corps that do fine, mostly because they use a lot of high ground, and take a lot of cover (a la counter strike, I still give them crap for it).


Besides this, we also all are "dedicated" xbow. I personally have 130 wpf in xbow and only 100 in 1h. Most Xbow builds are a variation in this.

The people you all like to complain about (the pure 30 str build with an arba who kills everyone) doesn't exist. If you are being sniped or even hit by an Arba/Heavy xbow...most likely the person has quite a bit of wpf dumped into xbow in order to be accurate.
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Offline Miley

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Re: A tought from you on Xbows
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2011, 07:52:35 pm »
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Arbalest will two shot you in whatever armor you're in, if not one shot you.

Offline _JoG_

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Re: A tought from you on Xbows
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2011, 07:58:06 pm »
-3
Besides this, we also all are "dedicated" xbow. I personally have 130 wpf in xbow and only 100 in 1h. Most Xbow builds are a variation in this.
The guy with 130 wpf in xbow is by no means a "dedicated" xbow.

Offline MadJackMcMad

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Re: A tought from you on Xbows
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2011, 08:14:47 pm »
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The guy with 130 wpf in xbow is by no means a "dedicated" xbow.

160 here, 87 2h.
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Offline Lt_Anders

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Re: A tought from you on Xbows
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2011, 09:36:11 pm »
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The guy with 130 wpf in xbow is by no means a "dedicated" xbow.

considering the fact that past 120 wpf in xbows is near useless, I'd say 130 is dedicated for it.
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Offline Earthdforce

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Re: A tought from you on Xbows
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2011, 09:36:57 pm »
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considering the fact that past 120 wpf in xbows is near useless, I'd say 130 is dedicated for it.
It's useful if you're wearing armor, and I believe accuracy is affected up to 130 or 140 something..
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Offline tankmen

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Re: A tought from you on Xbows
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2011, 09:37:08 pm »
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The guy with 130 wpf in xbow is by no means a "dedicated" xbow.
considering i only have 130 in 2h... am i not a two hander?
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Offline RagnarLodbroke

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Re: A tought from you on Xbows
« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2011, 09:37:52 pm »
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One word. OP

Offline _JoG_

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Re: A tought from you on Xbows
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2011, 10:54:06 pm »
+1
considering i only have 130 in 2h... am i not a two hander?
Ranged classes require more wpf than melee classes in order to be effective.

Back on the topic about our experience, I don't remember being oneshotted in the chest/legs by any kind of crossbow in my medium armor set (haubergeon + mail mittens, 7 IF), however, they can take up to ~60-65% hp with one bolt.

Offline Riddaren

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Re: A tought from you on Xbows
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2011, 11:10:12 pm »
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I don't think that crossbows are overpowered. If something is op it is longbows (piercing damage).