Why do we even need upkeep anymore?

[Tears of Destiny]

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.  ~ George Santayana

[chadz]

We are not labrats...

Yes you are? Beta, anyone?

As a general reply:
Not sure why I'm even repeating that, but there were two options.

- total wipes in frequent intervals,
- upkeep

If you don't see the necessity for either of those, please stay the fuck away from game design.

[Tears of Destiny]

Yes you are? Beta, anyone?

I thought Beta was some kind of cool Fraternity we were all part of... like Beta Omicron Theta 

[Overdriven]

Yes you are? Beta, anyone?

As a general reply:
Not sure why I'm even repeating that, but there were two options.

- total wipes in frequent intervals,
- upkeep

If you don't see the necessity for either of those, please stay the fuck away from game design.

How about you balance everything properly? Not use a monetary system to do it for you. One where you have to sell heirloom points to get enough gold to actually do anything with even slightly better gear.

Also it doesn't seem like a lot of consideration was given to the fact that a lot of battles run less than 3 mins. That means for the majority of the time, even when you have a x5, you only get 2 ticks of the timer. It would work if all 5 mins ran every single time. But they don't. It's often over before it hits the 4min tick. Meaning upkeep vs average time maintained of multipliers needs to be balanced better.

[Hydris]

This is from the perspective of a noob i got the game during the steam sale.
I fail to see a problem with the upkeep costs so far. My 2 hander can wear up to transitional without too much problem haven't bought anything higher. I prefer to run with light leather though saves money for my random weapon buying and I seem to do better in the lighter armor.
I will admit I stopped playing my archer because the upkeep was annoying always having arrows break. Just having the second best set and a horn bow was eating into my gold gain and i seemed to barely gain cash at all until i downgraded a little.

[Cyclopsided]

Upkeep was increased because there is now a way to influence it with personal skill, thus resulting in a higher multiplicator for better players.

Also, we wanted to see lower priced equipment in general.

Good players adapt, weak players lobby. 

edit:Gold is one of many variables in items. Many items are better than what they cost, but the overall stats are weaker. Which is interesting.

Just checking, is this why my gear is very rarely breaking on Cephalopopsicle_PGI? Am I doing something right on my strength Pikeman? I was running in full Gothic plate and it still wouldn't break on me for 2 maps (although, I don't like plate so I took it back off). I gained ~30k in <2 hours while in medium armor.
Can you please list what mechanic is influenced by personal skill? How? Is it My K/D? Large assist number? Damage output vs Damage taken?

I fully understand the reason upkeep exists, I prefer it to the wipes. It encourages players to use the full spectrum of gear and not just top end stuff, so we can balance everything.

[BlameMeForTheNoise]

Can you please list what mechanic is influenced by personal skill? How? Is it My K/D? Large assist number? Damage output vs Damage taken?

I think chadz means his new chadztext which gets you plus 1 Multiplyer. And people believe it kicks in after a killstreak of some sort or being one of the last ones alive.
My opinion though to that is, that if this is meant as some kind of counterweight for the higher upkeep it does a poor job. I consider myself a good enough player (my K/D is 2,38). I often have scores like 18/4 (or in similar proportions) and am one of the last ones alive. Still i dont get this new "chadztext" nearly enough to counterbalance the high upkeep.

But i guess it has all its up- and its downsides.



Downside: Not the upkeep but rather some prices are too high in my humble opinion. Which results in higher upkeep: With Kuyak and Danish i loose money.

Upside: more diversity as in: Instead of everyone using high-tier weapons/ high-tier armor you see more mid/low-tier gear.
e.g. Instead of danish i use a mid-tier weapon with my kuyak and i make money again. Very slowly, but a constant plus.
(basically i traded all my high-tier-looms for mid-tier-looms since it seems to be more worth it at the end of the day)

Its really a fine act of balance and no easy task. I think with a bit more transparency (intentions and so on) people might cry less and maybe (just maybe) try to understand some of the decisions more.

[Dezilagel]

Oh but cmon...

47 k is the upkeep breaking point for the average player...

If you can't be remotely successful using that amount of gear, then you probably just suck.

Having a few ultra-rich tincans really doesn't bother me. (In-fact, I think it's good since every round of them using plate they become less ultra-rich)

You jelly? They grinded a fuckload for that plate, so you just gotta do the same.

Want to beat them? Get in melee (woo, scaaaaaary, I know) with an armor-piercing weapon... (The spiked mace is a great anti-armor weapon, archers stop wasting your arrows on the plate users and put some points into ps!)

And if you get your ass kicked by them still, stop blaming it on the gear and focus your time on honing your skills instead of whining on the forums.

This is a game of skills, and improving those should be your goal instead of drooling over shiny gear... Otherwise it's gonna get boring VERY fast.

I fully agree with chadz on this one.

EDIT: Also, if you feel "at the mercy of BB" (cmon...), just go to a smaller server. Make your team.

[Phazey]

Man i can't believe the amount of whine in this thread. What a bunch of sissyboys blaming everything but themselves. 

Come on guys, it's easy to earn money in cRPG. It's also very simple: win.

If you can't be arsed to try and organize your team, get some teamplay out of the game and make a serious effort, then you don't deserve to walk around in top-end gear all the time! Now get over it already.

The upkeep is NOT too high, in fact, it's still too low as i'm running around with my horse, two shields, heralic mail, elite scimitar and my moneypile is still growing steadily.

And this nonesense about upkeep hurting new players is also complete poppycock. I've tutored several new players recently and you earn so much money so fast that within weeks of starting crpg, money ceases to be an issue. Just use your heads when selecting gear. Don't wear what you can't afford. Come on guys, it's not that hard.

[Kenouse]

If plated charger is the biggest problem - use the old riding skill requirements...
You rarely saw more then 2 plated charger each day, in pre january patch - and for the black armors, get blunt/pierce weapons..

[Gheritarish le Loki]

Something i don´t understand about you and your whines guys, is once you have bought all the equip you want, why do you want to gain more money? What do you want to do with that gold?
Gold only option is upkeep, do you grind for what?
Don´t tell me to buy looms, lomms are not needed, can be win by xp, and are expensive, so if you want to grind 300k gold you better retire it would be faster...

Stop the whines and play dammit!!

[Lordark]

if you are strapped for cash sell an hierloom for 200k ish and you will have a steady income to fall back on. When you start a round at x1 go easy with good gear then when you  are on a roll strap on the good gear.  Upkeep keeps the game fresh IMO. Also if your clan mates are hurting throw them a bone! Thats what friends are for!

[Xtrah]

Upkeep on plate/costy items. Free on mail/leather/cheap shit.

[Tears of Destiny]

if you are strapped for cash sell an hierloom for 200k ish and you will have a steady income to fall back on. When you start a round at x1 go easy with good gear then when you  are on a roll strap on the good gear.  Upkeep keeps the game fresh IMO. Also if your clan mates are hurting throw them a bone! Thats what friends are for!

Heirloom points go for 400k to 450k now.

[Overdriven]

Man i can't believe the amount of whine in this thread. What a bunch of sissyboys blaming everything but themselves. 

Come on guys, it's easy to earn money in cRPG. It's also very simple: win.

If you can't be arsed to try and organize your team, get some teamplay out of the game and make a serious effort, then you don't deserve to walk around in top-end gear all the time! Now get over it already.

The upkeep is NOT too high, in fact, it's still too low as i'm running around with my horse, two shields, heralic mail, elite scimitar and my moneypile is still growing steadily.

And this nonesense about upkeep hurting new players is also complete poppycock. I've tutored several new players recently and you earn so much money so fast that within weeks of starting crpg, money ceases to be an issue. Just use your heads when selecting gear. Don't wear what you can't afford. Come on guys, it's not that hard.

It is to high for a number of things. Primarily arrows and horses that I've noticed. The breakability of arrows means people very very rarely use anything other than normal arrows now. And those can often struggle to cause damage to your heraldic armour and that's with my MW Hornbow. Horses/lancers got nerfed, yet the upkeep increased. Which makes 0 sense.

I used to go around on a courser, steppe armour, nomad boots, MW hornbow and 3 sets of bodkins. The one major thing I noticed is that if I switch to plain arrows, I make money. If I switch to anything above that, I lose it.

I just think the upkeep system is currently poorly balanced for a lot of items. I can't comment on a lot of the melee stuff but I know it's bad for horses and arrows especially. It needs A LOT of adjusting to make it work sensibly.

if you are strapped for cash sell an hierloom for 200k ish and you will have a steady income to fall back on. When you start a round at x1 go easy with good gear then when you  are on a roll strap on the good gear.  Upkeep keeps the game fresh IMO. Also if your clan mates are hurting throw them a bone! Thats what friends are for!

But that's the point...grinding for an heirloom point, just to sell it to maintain upkeep means upkeep is obviously too high and defeats the point of heirlooms in the first place. That's only a true advantage to those who have everything heirloomed already. Those who don't won't get the chance to heirloom anything if they need to do this.