The Two Hander Problem and Crushthrough

[Wookimonsta]

uhm, i gots no sword and boarders, but crushthrough weapons are usually easy to defeat. If you suffer at their hand as a shielder... well thats the idea, thats like me going OH NOES PIKES ARE TOO POWERFUL AGAINST CAV! They are supposed to be. If anything chrushthrough should be more effective against shielders as shielders are probably going to be the dominant class in strategus before archers and pikes.

[Thucydides]

Chambering a Crushthrough is fine. But Gorath, the OP is talking about being a shielder vs a crushthrough, he wants the ability to omniblock a crushthrough weapon with a shield.

[Thucydides]

Thucydides you must realize the validity of my arguments and that is why you can't form effective counter arguments. By up I mean if one were to point his shield at the sky, not just put it in front of one. Of course I am sure you realized this as well but your tactic seems to be just to avoid the obvious and form an argument around any other possibility. Ohh and not to mention attack my playing skills rather than address game mechanics.

your argument: crushthrough is OP because i can't Omniblock it with a shield. I can't spam the crusher because he has teammates.

My argument: You're not supposed to be able to block it. Work with your team.

Pointing it up to the sky pretty much makes you immune to everything, so no i don't believe shielders should be able to Block a melee attack that pretty much everyone can't.

I attack your skill because everyones been in your place where they feel that one of the mechanics is broken because bla bla bla when really its because they were noobs. I've whined about 2h and shields before when i was a noob, now i just rack it up to the person being better than me. Crushthrough weapons are actually hard to use (unless you build EXCLUSIVELY for crushthrough) so it does take skill in using them, especially the long maul, that weapon is slower than a fat man on a treadmill.

now that i think about it, i remember hearing that shield skill and shield weight affects the amount of crushthrough thats allowed. Using a heavy board shield and pointing it up reduces Crushthrough, try it next time. At the very least you shouldnt be knocked down, since a heavier shield reduces the damage taken after getting crushed

[Nurax]

If there is a thing to worry about it is the Polearm stuff, sometimes the stun of the polearms are very long and they could even hit you before you could block. IN general polearms are: -longer
                                                                       - Same dmg as 2h
                                                                       - in some cases faster/ fast as 2h
                                                                       - and they got the stun

If you nerfed the "lol" stabb, it is just fair to nerf the stun of polearms too, thats my opinion.

Greetings

[Gorath]

Chambering a Crushthrough is fine. But Gorath, the OP is talking about being a shielder vs a crushthrough, he wants the ability to omniblock a crushthrough weapon with a shield.

I know, and I don't agree with that.  Again I said the only thing I would do to fix crushthrough would be to make them chamberable.  This would benefit shielders too that were skilled in that they wouldn't be at an insta-loss vs a mauler.

[Mala]

I still think crushthrough should not be able to block, they are heavy after all (and yes i am biased).
Oww, and they are pure support weapons.

[Tzar]

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[Cyclopsided]

Long Maul weapon length = 125

Long Espanada Eslanova weapon length = 103

Oh, you didn't read my post but replied anyways telling me I am wrong!
I am normally very civil, but there is now a 3 page thread of you ignoring everyone with valid points. I gave you very simple reasons as to why you always get the first swing on a mauler due to having more reach than him, and then from there it is piece of cake to victory. You then pointed to weapon length and told me I was wrong without reading my post.

So i'll spoon feed it to you. Pole arms lose weapon length due to how they are held. One handers gain weapon length due to how they are held. a 1h's Right swing adds a nice amount of reach thanks to the animation. It is math time, apparently. This ends up posted in every thread, i swear.

Amount of reach added to weapon length due to animation.

1h
Overhead = +0
Left-to-right = +0
Right-to-left = +19
Thrust = +61

2h
Overhead = +15
Left-to-right = +17
Right-to-left = +13
Thrust = +80

2h Polearms
Overhead = -15
Left-to-right = -7
Right-to-left = -2
Thrust = +19

1h Polearms
Thrust = +50

This puts as at 110 long maul overhead reach vs 122 long espada right-swing reach. Since you sited the longest 1h where even it's ultra fast left swings out reach it.
As I said earlier, only maces and short 1h are fucked vs the long maul, and even then they still usually get the first swing because if you are backing up then step in, you get more instantaneous reach from the lunge.
As I said earlier, me using a 1h I win vs crutchthrough weapons 90% of my encounters, with the other 10% as me being retarded or blind.

*to gorath: I never have any trouble fighting agility maulers like palatro. I never let him get the overhead on me, even when he blocks. It is always a close call though...

[Gorath]

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Someone missed the overall point due to hate.   

[ArchonAlarion]

All weapons should have a chance of crushthrough based on their weight*misc wpn factors + wielder's strength vs defending weight*misc wpn factors + strength. The chance should remain rare against evenly matched opponents, but a great bardiche vs a shortsword should crushthrough. Knockdown should be done similarly.

[Thucydides]

All weapons should have a chance of crushthrough based on their weight*misc wpn factors + wielder's strength vs defending weight*misc wpn factors + strength. The chance should remain rare against evenly matched opponents, but a great bardiche vs a shortsword should crushthrough. Knockdown should be done similarly.

this would be so fucking awesome, but it would give strength builds way too much power. I already abuse weapon stuns and holds, wait until i can crushthrough with my GLA with 10 PS

[Tears of Destiny]

I am not a fan of random factors that take away player skill.

[Preacher]

I am no noob, Ive been playing for over a year, and my char. is 3rd gen. just cause I don't heat it up with you hot tots here on the boards does not mean I'm new to the game. Yes I remember when everyone raged about barmace etc. I was a polearm then so it didn't really bother me. I just wanted to see what sword and board was like. Whats funny about someone using that argument about the barmace is that they addmitted that the mechanic sucked, so they altered the barmace but left the same mechanic on other hammers? Let me give you an example, idk the map name, but there is a map on seige that is considered generally unwinnable by the defense ,in fact many admins just change the map when it rolls up, D wins maybe 1-20, the wood stake walls are low, offense can take a pre-set ladder on the right and open the doors, and then the only way it is ever won is by holding the keep which has a large outer entrance and a narrower inner entrance to the flag. I was on D with the clan that wears red and uses steel shields, we formed a shield wall and the first wave came crashing into it with casulties on both sides but we managed to hold, the next wave at least 60% of the two-handers on the other team brought hammers and mauls etc. knowing that we would just be out. They knew they would just bust our stuff up and not a damn thing we could do about it. THAT is the definition of OP.

[Preacher]

@ Tzar, If you think the shields are like force fields then you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, and you certainly have never held one in crpg. Any hit from the side bypasses it as well as archers always bypass one. Funny enough though a steel buckler defends ones entire body from throwing weapons, but that is a topic for another thread.

[Tears of Destiny]

@ Tzar, If you think the shields are like force fields then you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, and you certainly have never held one in crpg. Any hit from the side bypasses it as well as archers always bypass one. Funny enough though a steel buckler defends ones entire body from throwing weapons, but that is a topic for another thread.

Yup, I am now regularly scoring hits on the sides of Huscarl users where before it was impossible.