The Two Hander Problem and Crushthrough

[Preacher]

actually almost every single 1h outreaches the long maul. Short maces are of equal length, like the war hammer.

Long Maul weapon length = 125

Long Espanada Eslanova weapon length = 103

[Gafgarion]

How to beat a strength build with a crushthrough mace as a 1hander

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iJTi_OITEo

We need shieldbashing. Oh wait, that would make shielders OP. SHHH!

[Preacher]

Plus my initial suggestion wouldn't even be the only solution, how about you can block crushthrough if your shield is all the way up?

[Thucydides]

First of all, WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU GETTING 3v1 AS A SHIELDER VS 3 CRUSHmy old friendS? Common sense would suggests NOT getting surrounded by crushmy old friends and, oh i don't know, get your 2h/polearm allies to help you.

Also, i've never encountered a situation where there were 3 crushmy old friends working together... Crushthrough is really situational/gimmicky.

[Preacher]

It's funny how I neither stated nor implied that all three of them were hammers yet that seems to be the assumption you all have taken. I don't make petty comments about single situations and I also don't rage about things irrationally. There is one fellow with a hammer and lets say a polearm and hell even a thrower coming at you, the two of them recognize that you have no defence against being sprawled on the ground so they greedily cling to him waiting to take advantage.

[Thucydides]

why are you getting outnumbered?
why are you not around teammates?
why are you complaining about people who use teamwork?

You realize that if you have your shield up, the chance of Knockdown decreases Drastically right?

[Thucydides]

i suggest you make a STF 2h maul spammer if you think its so OP, go 21/18 or 30/9 depending if you want speed or just crushing. I guarantee you its harder than you think.

[Preacher]

Thucydides you must realize the validity of my arguments and that is why you can't form effective counter arguments. By up I mean if one were to point his shield at the sky, not just put it in front of one. Of course I am sure you realized this as well but your tactic seems to be just to avoid the obvious and form an argument around any other possibility. Ohh and not to mention attack my playing skills rather than address game mechanics.

[Joxer]

If you can land the kick, great but most people can't do this...

Question for you guys. Is the kick in crpg different from native in any other way besides that it doesn't do damage? For some reason I cant land kicks in crpg. Used it plenty in native. Almost like it responds to the kick button much slower.

[Gorath]

i suggest you make a STF 2h maul spammer if you think its so OP, go 21/18 or 30/9 depending if you want speed or just crushing. I guarantee you its harder than you think.

Palatro's crutchthrough build

20/21

6 PS
7 Athletics
6 WM
All wpf in 2h (156-ish)

Now go fight him and tell me you can avoid getting facehug and crutched to death if he blocks you a single time.  He's faster than most, he removes your RMB, and chambering is rendered ineffective.  Block once, overhead = win.

Don't get me wrong, kudos for him for finding a build that emphasises what is wrong with the crutchthrough mechanic.  Well done Palatro.  However it highlights perfectly the retardedness of a game mechanic in melee that quite literally removes your ability to defend at all.

The ONLY thing that I would "fix" about the crutchthrough mechanic, and I've said it a million times, that would be the most fair solution while keeping crutchthrough in the game:  Make chambers/parries (w/e you want to call them) work properly on crutchthrough attacks.  Chambering is the hardest melee skill to master on command, it should counter a crutchthrough overhead attack.  Currently it does not and you get lolcrushed anyways for your effort.

Just my thoughts.

[Vibe]

Crushthrough might be unbeatable in some circumstances, but this is where your team gets in.

[Gorath]

Crushthrough might be unbeatable in some circumstances, but this is where your team gets in.

Anytime you resort to the "bring a group" in order to defeat a single enemy then balance has completely failed.

[Vibe]

Right, then backpedal and spam.

[Gorath]

Right, then backpedal and spam.

Palatro's crutchthrough build

20/21

6 PS
7 Athletics
6 WM
All wpf in 2h (156-ish)

Backpedal that.

*It's kind of like the old morningstar argument.  Remember Fedor back in the day?  Remember how everyone, myself included, was all "Morningstar's are fine.  L2P.  Just backpedal and sp-crunch-oshit!"  Sometimes a good build comes out that highlights a general issue that wasn't there in native, because the stats were fixed.  With the concept of the whole 'WSE' thing and being able to change more mechanics, I still say it'd be a really good idea to make it so crush through doesn't work on chambers.*

[Vibe]

Ok fine, dueling a crushthrough that can block is hopeless. I think chamber blocking crushthrough would be ok, I guess.