Horse Archers get 40 Degrees of turn as well

[Lichen]

Here we go: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nNKo97TtF0&feature=related Also lol at the anti HA comment on the vid.  Yeah that's a main reason why they invented this thing called ARMOR. Wear it. lol I have never once seen ANY HA in game take down a player in heavy armor.  And if it happens it's probably only after 15 arrows have hit him. Do people still think HA is overpowered?

[Digglez]

they would at least
put 60 degree to light lance
 50 to lance
and 45 to heavy lance.

something like that would be grand

[Patricia]

i guess you have vast experience with how lancing worked so you probably know what your saying, and showing a vid where guy demonstrates lancer attacks in all the different angles wont probably mean anything in this debate

thanks for putting "realistic" fix in a game filled with unrealistic things such as jumping attacks, circling around inf, 360 spin thrusts, archer jump turn over shots, tip of polearms stopping horses when hit in front even from sides etc etc

OH BECAUSE STABBING THE AIR IS REAL FUCKING DIFFICULT.

OH GOD I STAB THE AIR, MY SPINEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.

Seriously, I DARE you to stab someone at some funky 90 degree angle and not seriously fuck your lance and yourself up off the horse.

There's a big difference between actually stabbing someone on horse while going at fast speed and standing still stabbing at the air looking like a stupid retard.

[Felix]

Lol, enough with bs about ppl not able to hit wider than 40 degree.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkXMkJ1rBhg
It's not about realism or other thing. Cav just needed a nerf to make them less imba. HA can't be nerfed in that way - it's just STUPID. I am lancer and i am against it.

Wookie, just don't chase HA. If you did, dont whine when your horse got shot down.

[Thomek]

interesting video..

Some realism talk..

As you can see, the man is using only 1 arm, his shoulder and the muscle under the arm when thrusting it. I agree that the speed-bonus of a horse at speed would add a lot of damage, but if you transfer the mechanic to cRPG, the lances are completely unrealistic in their stabbing power.

A man using 2 arms standing on the ground would have much much more power in the thrusts.

He could use the weight of his body, 2 shoulders and 2 arms, in a much more efficient manner. I would imagine more than 3x the power. (I'm not saying the damage should be 3x, maybe much more more, maybe less depending on target.)

Not that this is relevant for the balance.. But if realism was a goal, perhaps boosting the speed-bonus, and lowering the damage that 1handed use of spears made would be interesting. Of course horsemen should have a wider field of attack again, do much less damage when standing still, and much more when at speed.

Generally.. this principle goes for most of the 1h vs 2h/polearm discussions too. Test it yourself. Grab a heavy stick with one hand, and hit something. Now grab it with 2 hands..

[Skurcey]

OH BECAUSE STABBING THE AIR IS REAL FUCKING DIFFICULT.
OH GOD I STAB THE AIR, MY SPINEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.

i can only LOL plus he looks so drunk

[Soldier_of_God]

Even though i hate horse archers, as they are the lowest of the low in mount and blade since they are literally the most unskilled class of ingrates ever to disgrace a game, it is very feasable to shoot a bow 85 degrees on your aiming side. about 35 for your odd side as well; it really balances out in the long run since HA's arent accurate, and dont do alot of damage either.

[Vibe]

Yes, not from reality perspective, but from balance.

[Skurcey]

HA

+high mobility
+can shoot cavalery's horses pretty easily

-less powerfull that every other build
-low armor
-no shield
-can't aim on right like crossbow or  thrower
 -use at least 8 skill points more than a pure class of something (exept heavy cav)

[justme]

it would be good if HA have some penalty, more they turn more inaccurate they are...

[Wookimonsta]

holy shit? this thread is still going on?
damn guys, let a troll thread die in peace.

[Bulzur]

HA

+high mobility
+can shoot cavalery's horses pretty easily

-less powerfull that every other build
-low armor
-no shield
-can't aim on right like crossbow or  thrower
 -use at least 8 skill points more than a pure class of something (exept heavy cav)

And now, let's compare that to a foot archer :

-no mobility
-can only shoot horses in close range
-die if there's two cav wanting to kill him
-no shield
-can be bumped to death
-need awareness, looking behind and sideways every 5sec (paranoia ? No, awareness)
-need as much dedicated skill points as an HA (example below)
-deel nearly as much damage as an HA (example below)

+can go on a roof


lv30 foot archer

(click to show/hide)

    Strength: 15
    Agility: 24
    Hit points: 50

    Unused skill points: 2

    Skills to attributes: 8

    Ironflesh: 0
    Power Strike: 0
    Shield: 0
    Athletics: 8
    Riding: 0
    Horse Archery: 0
    Power Draw: 5
    Power Throw: 0
    Weapon Master: 8

    One Handed: 1
    Two Handed: 1
    Polearm: 1
    Archery: 173
    Crossbow: 1
    Throwing: 1

lv30 horse archer

(click to show/hide)

    Strength: 15
    Agility: 24
    Hit points: 50

    Skills to attributes: 8

    Ironflesh: 0
    Power Strike: 0
    Shield: 0
    Athletics: 0
    Riding: 6
    Horse Archery: 4
    Power Draw: 5
    Power Throw: 0
    Weapon Master: 8

    One Handed: 1
    Two Handed: 1
    Polearm: 1
    Archery: 173
    Crossbow: 1
    Throwing: 1

Just have the foot archer use bodkin arrows (for +4 pierce damage), and a melee weapon (to block down when lancers come), and the horse archer use a desert horse, no melee weapon (can pick them on the ground easily, whenever he feels like it) and barbed arrows. Same armor. Same equipment price. Same repair cost, since arrows break more often. Same strength ? No. Ha stronger.

[Lichen]

Lol, enough with bs about ppl not able to hit wider than 40 degree.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkXMkJ1rBhg

Those are 'drills' on a stationary horse. IRL 'thrusting' with a lance (and trying to keep and hold on to it) from a moving horse would probably not turn out well.

But really people who want to decrease HA firing angle range.....come on. As if they are so dominating? lol.

[Lordark]

If you got hate in your heart let it out...

Cav power...

[Overdriven]

No. For a few simple reasons.

- HA can't engage inf head on and stand a chance. Seeing as you don't even have a lance, you will get your horse insta kill lolstabbed every single time you try and shoot someone
- Melee can jump about every where. HA are best either shooting horsemen, or shooting big groups of inf on fly bys. If you stop to shoot 1 guy, you will waste a lot at a bunny hopping person and with a degree angle nerf, it would be impossible. And with that nerf it would be impossible to do fly bys in inf. You'd have to charge straight into them.
- Horses go down to 2 arrows now. 3 if lucky. That's already a pain in the arse for an HA who has no melee wpf e.g. any decent HA. With a degree angle nerf, you wouldn't be able to shoot the archers who are shooting you. And would just have to horse bump them over and over and over and over in order to shoot them, rather than at least try and circle them. Yeah how does that sound archers?
- HA are designed to take on lancers, it's what they are best at. So unfortunately, if you get an HA on your arse, then you're gonna have to switch to 1h, shield.
- Lancers were nerfed to hard. Don't nerf HA, buff lancers
- Archery nerf hit HA as well. It's harder to get kills now unless you are very good. You have to get in very close, because of the arrow drop, to actually stand a chance of hitting someone at speed. Less close now they fixed accuracy a bit, but still close.
 

Just have the foot archer use bodkin arrows (for +4 pierce damage), and a melee weapon (to block down when lancers come), and the horse archer use a desert horse, no melee weapon (can pick them on the ground easily, whenever he feels like it) and barbed arrows. Same armor. Same equipment price. Same repair cost, since arrows break more often. Same strength ? No. Ha stronger.

HA has to pay for his horse Bulzur (frikkin expensive if you want a decent on). And put extra points in HA which requires more agi. So  they should probably have an advantage over foot archers. Though we all know archers got nerfed. If they were fixed perhaps you wouldn't have such a hard time shooting horses. Though I still find it easy enough when I'm on the ground and honestly can't see a real basis for an argument from that pov, considering you can down horses faster now.