Archery Nerfed

[Xant]

Archery is far from underpowered. There might be some UP bows, but that doesn't mean archery is.

[Gorath]

Being pigeon-holed into using a rus or long bow as an archer shouldn't be required in order to be effective. 

Being pigeon-holed into using top tier melee weapons shouldn't be required in order to be effective either.  Buff regular voulge, simple sword, etc.

[MrShine]

Being pigeon-holed into using top tier melee weapons shouldn't be required in order to be effective either.  Buff regular voulge, simple sword, etc.

   Are you trolling? I don't know how you can post this with a straight face.

Look at how many melee weapon options there are compared to archery options, and then look at what percentage of those are truly viable.

There are only three truly viable bows: horn bow, longbow, or rus bow (occasionally Tartar bow for HA but they just tickle).  I'm making the case that the horn bow has now become even less viable, so really you're looking at two.  Anyone who goes a different bow is doing it wrong.

Meanwhile -let's be honest- you can be completely viable with the majority of 2H, polearms, and a bunch of 1H weapons.  Sure some hit harder and some are faster and some have more reach, but there is usually a give and take which actually makes you have to decide which one suits your playstyle. 

[Xant]

You can be viable with any bow. I was doing just fine with "Bow" until I got enough monies to buy a Rus bow.

[Siiem]

And yes, with a masterwork horn bow and masterwork bodkin arrows (which incidentally does the same amount of damage as a +0 rus bow w/ +0 bodkins...) I did have to hit people 4-6+ times if they wore mid-high/high level armor.  I can't recall a single time I 2 shot someone in heavy armor unless I hit them in the head or it was a cav player who I plugged at point blank range with speed bonus.

  my stf archer was able to kill people in medium armour in 5 - 7 hits with a nomad bow... wtf were you doing?

[Jambi]

I have a MW rusbow MW bodkin's MW mail guantlets and MW light strange armor. I can pay the upkeep for it just fine, i actually make a little bit of money. Tho you need to run on x5 or x4 alot. For example today I played for about 2-2.5 hour, something like that. i made 10K gold.

I only 1 shot peasants... or agi builds sometimes. Yes archery damage is low, but with a few tricks you can be very effective.

Just a hint, to fellow archers out there!
Dont have your arrow hit the target, but have your target run into the arrow. Think about it, and you will see that it works from any angle or direction.
For example, if your shooting at someone running horizontal from you. Dont aim for his side, but aim for his belly. So he will run into it. make him catch the arrow.

And ofcourse for your upkeep, make sure your playing on a server where the rounds last a few minutes. and arent ended in 1-2 minutes.

I hope you understand,
And personally i feel archery is right where it is supposed to be. No more buffs  needed imo. But i do still believe in Strongbow needing to be 2 slots.

good luck

[MrShine]

You can be viable with any bow. I was doing just fine with "Bow" until I got enough monies to buy a Rus bow.

Maybe viable against other peasants, certainly not viable against anyone close to level 30 or wearing an ounce of armor. "Bow" does 18 cut damage, less than throwing knives.  Since when have you seen a serious and truly effective thrower build that uses throwing knives? 

my stf archer was able to kill people in medium armour in 5 - 7 hits with a nomad bow... wtf were you doing?

You're talking about medium armor with a nomad bow, I'm talking about mid-high/high armor with a masterwork horn bow... we're comparing different things.

Sure with my horn bow I would 3 shot most people with medium armor, probably 2 (maaaaybe 1) shot if they were peasants.  Similarly if you would use your nomad bow on mid/high - high armor it will probably be 7+ arrows, essentially uselessness.  I don't see how this is supposed to support your argument

I have a MW rusbow MW bodkin's MW mail guantlets and MW light strange armor. I can pay the upkeep for it just fine, i actually make a little bit of money. Tho you need to run on x5 or x4 alot. For example today I played for about 2-2.5 hour, something like that. i made 10K gold.

You must be an exception then, because someone winning half their rounds has a 1.9 average multi, which means the majority of players who pick up archer will NOT be able to sustain bodkin arrows.  Also not everyone is in an elite clan and able to tilt that in their favor in battle  .

I consider myself to be a pretty decent archer and I know my average multi was probably closer to that x3 range than the average, and as I said I kept track of my gold during the course of my gen and I lost a substantial amount of gold. 

Comparing that to this gen as a 1h-shielder where I'm raking in the gold wearing a much more expensive gear loadout...


Just to reiterate to try to show that this isn't intended to be a whining rant, I am ok with archery to take some nerfs.  I just think there were too many that occurred at once.  Adjust the arrow upkeep changes slightly, upgrade missile speed slightly, and you can leave the cut damage as is.

[Leshma]

I have a MW rusbow MW bodkin's MW mail guantlets and MW light strange armor. I can pay the upkeep for it just fine, i actually make a little bit of money. Tho you need to run on x5 or x4 alot. For example today I played for about 2-2.5 hour, something like that. i made 10K gold.

I only 1 shot peasants... or agi builds sometimes. Yes archery damage is low, but with a few tricks you can be very effective.

Just a hint, to fellow archers out there!
Dont have your arrow hit the target, but have your target run into the arrow. Think about it, and you will see that it works from any angle or direction.
For example, if your shooting at someone running horizontal from you. Dont aim for his side, but aim for his belly. So he will run into it. make him catch the arrow.

And ofcourse for your upkeep, make sure your playing on a server where the rounds last a few minutes. and arent ended in 1-2 minutes.

I hope you understand,
And personally i feel archery is right where it is supposed to be. No more buffs  needed imo. But i do still believe in Strongbow needing to be 2 slots.

good luck

I used to play with my usual low gear (rags, rus shoes, khergit lady hat) using long bow, 2xtatars and a hammer and I was making shit ton of money. Maybe it's tight with 2x bodkins but I really made a lot, hard for me to imagine that I would be losing money with bodkins. Being an archer you can affect outcome of the battle more than you can as regular melee footman. Why? Because you can kill 2h monsters easier than anyone else, you can kill Leed and other nasty cav. Basically, if you choose the right targets your team won't lose often. And also you usually end up being last (if you're smart) which usually means valor. Don't get all the fuss about archery being upkeep unfriendly.

[Rogue_Eagle]

Blame slots for every archer running away. Remove slots and I'll fight even with 1 wpf.

True that. I used to stand and fight a lot more when I could carry a half decent melee weapon. Unfortunately the general ineffectiveness of any 1 slot bow (ok, horn bow is ok, but not  a patch on rus or long bow) paired with the reduced number of arrows per quiver mean the slot restrictions force me to carry a rubbish melee weapon.

[Gorath]

True that. I used to stand and fight a lot more when I could carry a half decent melee weapon. Unfortunately the general ineffectiveness of any 1 slot bow (ok, horn bow is ok, but not  a patch on rus or long bow) paired with the reduced number of arrows per quiver mean the slot restrictions force me to carry a rubbish melee weapon.

Steel pick
Long espanada
Langes Messer
Spiked mace
Italian sword
Iberian mace
etc are all "rubbish" weapons?

Good to know.

[Tears of Destiny]

Steel pick
Long espanada
Langes Messer
Spiked mace
Italian sword
Iberian mace
etc are all "rubbish" weapons?

Good to know.

He is using a two slot bow, all of those are not zero slot weapons. :/

[Leshma]

Tears you simply don't get it.

What Gorath tries to say is that 15-18 are is more than enough for an archer

[Gorath]

Tears you simply don't get it.

What Gorath tries to say is that 15-18 are is more than enough for an archer

Yes.  Stop missing.
OR
Use a 1-slot bow.

Compromises.

I can't have a:
shield vs arrows
pike vs cav
maul vs shields
2her vs everything else on one character either.  So clearly infantry is underpowered because of the slot system.

[Tears of Destiny]

All I see are infantry who bitch that archers can defend themselves and use two handers, then post patch more infantry bitching that archers now always run and rarely fight.

Blah blah blah...


I think people should lay this dead horse to rest. Fine, we get it, archery is "gay" (retards don't know hw to properly use that word?) infantry don't like to chase, archers like to shoot people from far away, bows are completely overpowered and somehow at the same time have been nerfed too many times and are too weak, infantry retards are giving archers advice on how to shoot and archer retards are giving infantry advice on how to fight yadda yadda yadda, and so on so forth...

Nevermind, carry on repeating yourselves and pretending that your input means anything to game balance or that you are actually saying anything new and not so boringly old...

[Gorath]

Fine, we get it, archery is "gay"

Only thing that needed to be said, the rest is whining. 

Still love you though.

*The more I think about it the more it seems that everyone should be able to carry a 2her, and a ranged weapon of choice at all times.  And ride any horse.  Just as baseline aspects of having a character.  Then customize from there.  That way everyone can shoot back at the fuckwads shooting at them instead of trying to run to them with only a melee weapon and hoping to live.  Or hiding somewhere and delaying the round because they can't shoot back and don't want to get shot.  You know, like a real FPS where everyone can shoot at each other.  /whine-rant*