Author Topic: Fear the Ranged death squad!  (Read 5041 times)

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Offline KaMiKaZe_JoE

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Re: Fear the Ranged death squad!
« Reply #60 on: June 08, 2013, 04:09:05 am »
+4
I would kill them but, you know, somebody removed the rocket from my horse's asshole, took away it's bullet proof vest, replaced my lance with a 300 pound lead toothpick, and broke my spine, making twisting in the saddle quite impossible.

I'd try to run a few of them over, but they'd just get back up. Or two of them would decide to work together to stiff-arm my half-ton animal.

NERF ME MORE, IT HURTS GOOD!
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Offline Joker86

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Re: Fear the Ranged death squad!
« Reply #61 on: June 08, 2013, 04:20:50 am »
+3
I do agree with Paul that the constant nerf cries for archers are getting out of hand. Although I disagree with buffing them, as it would increase the problems again.

What many players don't seem to be aware of, is the fact that not the effectivity of one archer is the problem, it's rather their amount. In difference to infantry archers gain strength the more of them you have. Every additional infantryman increases the strength of a team by a single infantryman (surprise, surprise!). But every additional archer increases the effectivity of every other archer in his team. Which means the effectivity growth is exponential.

Now why do we have so many archers? I guess there is a multitude of reasons, but one reason we can exclude: it's not their effectivity. Archers went through so many nerfs, and still we have that old problem of growing numbers whenever some time after the last patch (including the newest archery nerf) passed.

I think reasons for the unexplainable popularity of that class are the average melee skill level of the community, some of the newly implemented melee mechanics and tweaks, and last but not least the pleasure the higher flexibility concerning the gameplay of archers brings. (And just to beat my favourite dead horse once again: this flexiblity origins from the Battle Mode objectives. I guess there's only a puddle of blood left from that horse...)

I don't know how to really fix this (apart from my dead horse solution), but I do know for sure that archers should stop the "get a shield"-crap (yes, 11 shielders could still have problems dealing with those 11 archers, and 22 shielder would have much bigger problems dealing with 22 archers, whereas 88 archers would be unreachable, even for 176 shielders), and melee players should stop the "nerf archers" crap. I agree a little bit could be done about the horse crossbowman, but that's already everything. You guys know I think only the implementation of conquest mode could help something, but to bridge the time until a working solution is found you could try to "hotfix" the problems by yourself and actually try to coordinate with your teammates. It's the best thing you can do. Archers can't do a lot more than standing next to each other to protect themselves, and that's what they do already, so basically they are at the peak of their possible performance.

But you could improve your performance by looking what your team is doing, and perhaps even coordinating yourself with the other classes, e.g. your archers and cavalry. They can help you dealing with the enemy ranged players, and then you can help them dealing with the rest. Trust me, you won't fight less (if anything, you'll survive longer and fight more!), and you will have fun actually playing in a team, instead of only playing "along" each other.

I know, I partially agree with CrazyCracka and Berserkadin on this matter, but in difference to them I think it's only a measure which helps, but in no way it's the final solution. Just remember the golden infantry rule of cRPG: run where your teammates are, not where the enemy is.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2013, 04:24:03 am by Joker86 »
Joker makes a very good point.
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Offline Kafein

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Re: Fear the Ranged death squad!
« Reply #62 on: June 08, 2013, 02:47:26 pm »
0
After reading this I'm thinking about working towards an additional foot archery buff within the balance team. In respect of their current inefficiency the amount of retarded lobbying against archers - even from otherwise intelligent specimen like Kafein - is unbearable. Maybe it is time to show again what it is like when they really have an impact on the outcome of a round which is now mainly hogged by cav,  inf and (to a lessen extend) crossbowmen.

I get your point, to be honest I know archers used to have a greater impact on victory, and more frequently than now.

Somehow though, dealing with them has become increasingly unfun. I don't think I play because I care much about victory (not anymore at least), the issue is in gameplay. Frankly I'm fine with losing to a group of cliffcamping archers, but I'm not fine with being set up as the ultimate archer counter and still having an easier and funnier experience dealing with the same number of 2h. Maybe it is related to the evolution of skill, as in melee becoming increasingly uneffective as people learn to block (add armor reduce to that). What I ask is less a nerf than introducing some defensive skill on the receiving end. Oftentimes, being killed by ranged is similar to being struck by lightning, that's what I don't like.

Offline Rumblood

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Re: Fear the Ranged death squad!
« Reply #63 on: June 08, 2013, 06:08:51 pm »
0
I What I ask is less a nerf than introducing some defensive skill on the receiving end. Oftentimes, being killed by ranged is similar to being struck by lightning, that's what I don't like.

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Offline Grumbs

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Re: Fear the Ranged death squad!
« Reply #64 on: June 08, 2013, 07:12:33 pm »
0
I concur, nerf must be ranged
If you have ranged troubles use this:

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Offline BrazZOR

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Re: Fear the Ranged death squad!
« Reply #65 on: June 08, 2013, 07:52:42 pm »
+1
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Offline Havoco

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Re: Fear the Ranged death squad!
« Reply #66 on: June 08, 2013, 08:14:00 pm »
+1
Looking at the picture I'd guess that there's about 60-80 ppl in the server. 11 ranged isn't that much compared. It seems like ppl keep forgetting that half the classes in the game are ranged classes.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2013, 09:34:04 pm by Havoco »
Pock gobblers

Offline Johammeth

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Re: Fear the Ranged death squad!
« Reply #67 on: June 08, 2013, 09:39:43 pm »
0
I'm gonna go play my Arethebest whore now.

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Offline Necrorave

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Re: Fear the Ranged death squad!
« Reply #68 on: June 08, 2013, 11:53:59 pm »
+1
Somehow though, dealing with them has become increasingly unfun.

The main reason things have become more "Unfun" is because the new exp/gold system creates competition throughout the server rather then fun.  Archers will shoot the last guy because they want to win.  Rather then fight with honor because we all get the same thing in the end.  (For competetive people, this may be fun.  Although if they are losing then they end up upset.)  Competition will upset everyone in some way.  While the casual feel it had back then left everyone with a sense of "Who cares its fun".  Take exp barn for example.  People did it all the time because they knew it would be fun and reward EVERYONE.  While now its all about banner balance and trying to be the best so one side pevails over another

This is not the archers fault and you should not "Punish" them for it.

Offline Prpavi

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Re: Fear the Ranged death squad!
« Reply #69 on: June 09, 2013, 03:36:56 pm »
-1
After reading this I'm thinking about working towards an additional foot archery buff within the balance team. In respect of their current inefficiency the amount of retarded lobbying against archers - even from otherwise intelligent specimen like Kafein - is unbearable. Maybe it is time to show again what it is like when they really have an impact on the outcome of a round which is now mainly hogged by cav,  inf and (to a lessen extend) crossbowmen.

You are highly delusional, or just being a jerk intentionally, what ever the case may be you should have a bit more respect for the community... what you put out is what you get back  :wink:
And now he can't play because of "common sense" and he doesn't understand how this common sense works
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Offline Kafein

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Re: Fear the Ranged death squad!
« Reply #70 on: June 09, 2013, 03:41:43 pm »
0
The main reason things have become more "Unfun" is because the new exp/gold system creates competition throughout the server rather then fun.  Archers will shoot the last guy because they want to win.  Rather then fight with honor because we all get the same thing in the end.  (For competetive people, this may be fun.  Although if they are losing then they end up upset.)  Competition will upset everyone in some way.  While the casual feel it had back then left everyone with a sense of "Who cares its fun".  Take exp barn for example.  People did it all the time because they knew it would be fun and reward EVERYONE.  While now its all about banner balance and trying to be the best so one side pevails over another

This is not the archers fault and you should not "Punish" them for it.

Well the horrible post january 2011 mindset has contaminated everybody, not just archers.