The best suggestion for horse ranged!

[Ronin]

Never said they were UP.

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

Never said they were UP.

So, if horsethrowers aren't UP compared to HA/HX, how in goats fucking name is nerfing HA thus shitting up horseranged balance a good idea?

[Micah]

Sorry , but imo pretty poor solution gameplay-wise tbh, and not near to be the "best sollutioin", considering there are quite interresting and good other ideas out there.
Its a mere nerf without insight in the balance system and consequences of changes.
The idea is to make classes more fun to play and not to nerf them to death  (talking of : all classes in the game)

[Ronin]

Because basically I don't think reducing the ammo would be necessarily nerfing those classes, if there is another compensation on the table.

What ammo influences is, the time those classes can stay away from melee combat (if they are avoiding the melee cavalry well). with 3 stacks of bodkin arrows, it was 48 ammunition. A very high amount for a class that is also moving very fast if you ask me. 2 stacks of bodkins with a melee weapon would make it 32. With my suggestion, they would be having 24 and 16. It is still pretty enough for a skirmisher class.

That is why I made this suggestion and why I think it is the best way to go. Removing the ability of horse archer classes to be the mounted foot archer. This suggestion would make them more of a skirmishers now, because you can't balance a class that has the speed of a horse and the shooting power of a bow/crossbow; as said by someone else that I don't remember of his name.

Think of it like this. The most classified Horse Archer build is:

(click to show/hide)

STR - 15
AGI - 24


Weapon Master - 7
Horse Archery - 4
Power Draw - 5
Riding - 7

Archery - 170

However with the addition of removal of Horse Archery skill penalty to wpf. You can easily make something like this.

(click to show/hide)

STR - 18
AGI - 18

Ironflesh - 2
Weapon Master - 6
Horse Archery - 3
Power Draw - 6
Riding - 6
Power Strike - 6

Archery - 150
OneHanded - 50

Jackie's 15/18 build could have been even more useful. If you want, you can stick with the old 15/24 build as well. I remember using a military hammer with 30 wpf and 0 ps with that and 5 riding. It was pretty useful. Not to mention it would be actually easier with 7 riding.



By the way updated the first post a bit (that's what feedbacks are for eh?). Made it even more in favor of horse archers, since their ammo seemed a bit low for their effectiveness. It's 2/3 for arrows and 1/2 for bolts now. Which makes 10+1 bodkins, 12+1 for tatars and 14+1 for barbed (rounded down). Weight and prices are still halved down for arrows. Bolt quivers are the same because 6+1 per quiver is more than enough for Horse crossbows to be effective since their damage output is higher and it is easier for horse crossbowman to hybridize with melee. Horse Throwers are untouched because they are not an UP class as says zlisch aka. the faithful defender of horse throwers.

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

Nerfing HA/HX the slightest with your "compensation" is silly, the compensation would also be removing the HA wpf nerf from horsethrowers, so you'd still fuck up balance.

[Ronin]

Do you seriously think that will make Horsethrowing Overpowered?

[Rumblood]

Do you seriously think that will make Horsethrowing Overpowered?

I don't think you have enough experience with Horse Throwing to seriously ask that question.

[Phew]

Best fix for everybody is to change flag mechanics on battle, seige doesn't have a ranged delaying problem because the goal isn't to kill every single person on the other team, you can ignore kiting archers/heros and just go to the flags. Make flags pop out earlier on Battle mode and all this delaying whine will be mute. The upside is that you don't have to worry about ruining balance between classes which is mostly fine despite all the said whine.

QFT. If you are sick of delaying ranged cav on battle, come to siege where everyone dies like a man. You can basically ignored the ranged, as they don't really affect the outcome of the battle. The most annoying class on siege is maulers, but they are relatively rare.

[Phew]

Do you seriously think that will make Horsethrowing Overpowered?

I made a STF Javalry, played for like 4 hours and didn't get a single kill from throwing while mounted (unless I stopped the horse, which kills the point). Must underpowered class for sure (even pugilists do better).

[Paul]

HX will get the HA skill penalty and HT will lose it next patch.

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

HX will get the HA skill penalty and HT will lose it next patch.

If HT loses it then HA should as well, I'm all for HX getting it cause fuck HX, but still.

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

Do you seriously think that will make Horsethrowing Overpowered?

Overpowered? Nope, it'll however be unfair to horsearchers, just like buffing horsearchers to "counter hx" is a shitty idiotic pisspoor idea as it fucks over ht and breaks the balance slightly there. Horsearchery/horsethrowing is balanced with eachother atm, HX is slightly out of line, shitting up HT/HA in the name of "some idiotic goal that won't be accomplished that way" is a bad idea.

I don't think you have enough experience with Horse Throwing to seriously ask that question.

Have you ever played dedicated horsethrower? (you're correct though)

I made a STF Javalry, played for like 4 hours and didn't get a single kill from throwing while mounted (unless I stopped the horse, which kills the point). Must underpowered class for sure (even pugilists do better).

Then you're doing it wrong, and using javs (they suck).

[Phew]

Then you're doing it wrong, and using javs (they suck).

I was using +3 Jarids, but "Jaridavalry" doesn't sound as cool as "javalry". And doing it wrong in the sense that you should stop moving to throw? That kills the fun of tossing a bulls eye from a full gallop (which admitted I never actually accomplished, but I bet it's fun!).

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

I was using +3 Jarids, but "Jaridavalry" doesn't sound as cool as "javalry". And doing it wrong in the sense that you should stop moving to throw? That kills the fun of tossing a bulls eye from a full gallop (which admitted I never actually accomplished, but I bet it's fun!).

I've done horsethrowing longer than all other people I've ever seen in this mod, I don't know how you're doing it, but I don't have a serious problem like what you're claiming, neither with my unloomed throwing spears or my unloomed throwing lances, I can headshot lancers riding on the other side of an open field occasionally, I can onehit all armored cavalry charging at me, I can kill HA and HX, I can defeat the average ground archer in a one on one without bumping, I can one or twohit most guys with throwing lances as long as I'm riding fullspeed and they're standing still/moving towards me, it really isn't that horribly underpowered (is much weaker on servers that lack wse2 though).