Kicked for breaking opponent ladders??

[Knute]

Easiest way to fix archers camping on roofs: Make the master of the field flags always spawn at say 1.30 mins left.

This seems like an easy fix.  The master of the field flags are working properly now right?  This is the reason why the flags are there, to prevent stalemates. I don't think people should be kicked for breaking ladders and forcing the other team to jump down, it requires too much hands on refereeing.  Even right now, if someone's roof camping, why not just ignore them and go wait by the flag?  You should definitely break their ladders so they get hurt jumping down, if it's decided that's legal. 

[Heroin]

My suggestion is that we force new mappers to only make maps where every roof as either A an invisible wall or B a way to get there, and do not accept any map that does not fit this criteria.

This would be accomplished easier by simply not allowing ladders to be spawned on the battle server. It would accomplish the exact same thing, except, instead of 50 people having to make multiple changes to current and future maps, 1 guy could make 1 change to the code.

Even right now, if someone's roof camping, why not just ignore them and go wait by the flag?

Many maps actually have a random flag spawn location, precisely so you can't camp the flag spawn.

[Zisa]

another alternate suggestion - decrease fall damage.

[Knute]

Many maps actually have a random flag spawn location, precisely so you can't camp the flag spawn.

If you're on the ground close to the roof campers, that should give you a head start on the race to the flag.  Plus it brings campers down to fight, possibly with reduced health from the jump, so the flag might not even be necessary. 

[Felagunda]

The problem with this solution is the following scenario:

A ladder leads to a high rooftop, where several people are camping. The people on the ground are not allowed to destroy the ladder, or they get banned. So they all file onto the ladder to assault the rooftop. As they near the top, the people on the roof destroy the ladder, causing everyone on it to die from fall damage. THEN, to ensure they follow the rules, they jump down from the unreachable position, but it doesn't matter because the rules forced the other team to die already.

Basically, what I'm saying is: That rule is unfair and biased in favor of the roof campers, who are already exploiting an advantageous position. Combining your "no delaying" rule with the "no destroying ladders to unreachable positions" rule, you're basically giving campers the free win if they're the only ones left. All they have to do is wait for the other team to get on the ladder, then kill the ladder.

I almost wish I was an EU player, just so I could demonstrate just how retarded it could be. It would be worth it to spawn with extra ladders, just so you could kill one(killing several enemies), then jump down and throw a new ladder up to the (now)unreachable position again before you hit the ground, so that it becomes accessible again, and your allies can stay up there. Rinse and repeat till enemy team is dead.

Of course, most reasonable admins would see that as abusing the rules system, and put a stop to it. But that's not the point. The point is to have a rules system that isn't so illogical and full of holes that it requires an admin to make a judgment call.

Well at leats NA can enforce their own rules on this.  Seems that many people just can't get it. 

Anyway I still say remove them all from battle servers.  If it was possible allow each server to choose wether or not they are allowed.

[IG_Saint]

Many maps actually have a random flag spawn location, precisely so you can't camp the flag spawn.

The native maps each have 3 flag spawn locations that they can randomly spawn at. I'm guessing that in custom maps it's up to the map maker how many spawn locations he/she puts in.

[Kung Fu Jesus]

Awesome, we can't even get admins on the same server to agree to a standard enforcement. So basically players have these options if they are the last one or one of a couple:

1)destroy the ladder, possibly kicked depending on admins present
2)climb the ladder and likely get pin cushioned one by one
3)wait it out on the ground and get accused of delaying/camping and get kicked, depending on admins present

Once again, the terrorists win.

I would personally volunteer to change all the maps on the NA servers to add barriers and/or permanent ladders and make sure they all had flags. I make maps and barricade 90% of my roofs, leaving at least one permanent way to the ones left open. I don't believe ladders should be removed completely, as much as I hate archers. They do provide some interesting tactics occasionally.

[Heroin]

Awesome, we can't even get admins on the same server to agree to a standard enforcement. So basically players have these options if they are the last one or one of a couple:

1)destroy the ladder, possibly kicked depending on admins present
2)climb the ladder and likely get pin cushioned one by one
3)wait it out on the ground and get accused of delaying/camping and get kicked, depending on admins present

Darkwulf is the only admin I've ever heard of to kick a player on any of the NA servers for breaking an enemy ladder. I typically do not publically disagree with other admins, preferring to work differences of opinion out away from the public eye. However, in the absence of Devilize, who makes the rules, Darkwulf is interpereting the spirit of the rule in his own way, even though it is not a stated rule on that server.

While I understand Darkwulf's position and opinon, this type of enforcement has never been done on any of the NA servers, and I don't think it should be happening without first getting either a ruling from Devilize, or a consensus from the rest of the NA admins. Barring those two situations, I think it should be enforced as it has been ever since ladders were introduced to crpg.

[Engine]

We should follow the RN articles of war:

"All other crimes not capital committed by any person or persons in the fleet, which are not mentioned in this act, or for which no punishment is hereby directed to be inflicted, shall be punished by the laws and customs in such cases used at sea."

The custom as I've always known it on c-rpg = Archers need to man up and get off the roof.

There's also one about sodomy that I think Huey Newton should read. Maybe he and I can read it together. Alone.