Messages

1

Other / Re: cRPG_Australia

« on: June 10, 2011, 09:01:19 am »

I keep getting the "Incorrect authorization key" error when I try to connect. Just started today. Same thing happened ages ago with the old server, but it was fixed pretty quickly. Just thought I should let you know.

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Suggestions Corner / Re: Australian servers

« on: April 18, 2011, 09:55:41 am »

There's currently one up, but it has no exp or gold atm. I think it might be run by PK (they said they might try to get a server up). Until it has working gold and exp, I can't see many people going on it though (same happened with Ninja_CRPG; it had no one on until it was linked to the main CRPG server/database/thing, but as soon as it was it started to get quite full). Hopefully they'll get it working soon. And hopefully they'll add more slots and ensure it is stable (unlike the last server; which killed the community because it constantly crashed and was too laggy when it wasn't crashing).

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Game Balance Discussion / Re: Throwing Nerf

« on: March 18, 2011, 08:54:02 am »

Nah, people would still find a way to whine. Archers have been nerfed into oblivion and people still complain. There's a significant portion of the c-rpg community that wants the mod to make 2h weapons clearly superior than the rest of the classes.

I know I certainly would still whine. I have 10 PT on my thrower and usually 1-hit people who're wearing light to medium armour with my jarids. I've yet to meet someone who's required more than 2 hits to die. Certainly you can pull stats out saying that some 2h and polearm weapons can 1-hit as well; but they can be blocked by anyone who has a melee weapon equipped (indefinitely as well; someone with a low shield skill can only shield 1 of my jarids before it's destroyed). Besides that, a thrower can also attack when a melee user cannot and all that a melee user can do is try to dodge their hits (unless they're 1h with a decent shield skill). Then, if the melee guy makes it, they'll engage in a melee where the thrower can still attack anyway.

When playing my thrower doesn't feel like easy mode, I'll be happy with it. As it is, I don't play it because I feel cheap. I have to play at the top of my game and be constantly alert and active while playing my melee characters and even with my archer and arbalist, but with my thrower I literally just run around chucking heavy axes or jarids (depends on what I feel like; they both seem to be a guaranteed 2 shot kill on anyone anyway) in people's general direction and racking up kills. The only real downside to my thrower is that I'll usually only be able to get 6 kills per round from throwing (some are 1-hit kills, some people have a shield and need 3, so it usually evens out). My melee alts, however, can get an unlimited number of kills...assuming that everyone on the server sucks and runs at me single file. As it is, my thrower simply takes significantly less effort to get the same (or usually more) kills per round than any of my other characters.

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General Discussion / Re: Two Handed Spam

« on: March 03, 2011, 04:08:50 am »

wtf..
-.-

Sorry if that sounds offensive. I'm not saying there aren't any good NA players (there are many exceptional players), but you have to admit that there are a lot of horrible players on NA. I'm used to a server consisting of a small group of hardcore Warband/cRPG players where almost every kill is difficult to get. NA, on the other hand, is very challenging only if you choose to ignore the large number of peasants and absolutely terrible 2H 'spammers' (who seem to try to spam any weapon regardless of speed; even I can block them easily and hit them, without them even attempting to block!). For sure there are many good 2H (and even peasants!), but there are also many crap players who are easy to kill. I've found (in my small number of hours on NA, so likely it isn't very accurate) that the best players on there are 1h/shield, 2H and polearm users. I think I've only been hit by an archer three or four times and each time was when I was climbing a steep ladder on a siege map without a shield. Some of the archers on the Aus server can shoot a foot from across the other side of a wide map. Surely some NA archers can too, but I have yet to encounter them. All of this could be said for EU too, but Gorath is on NA so I spoke about NA, rather than EU (though I never play EU because I get a ping of 350+ on there  ).

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General Discussion / Re: Two Handed Spam

« on: March 03, 2011, 02:41:52 am »

Bloody hell, tell me you aren't like this in real life. The amount of logical fallacies and arrogance are amazing.

You obviously don't play on the NA servers at all, but that's ok we can keep making pointless assumptions.

Yep, that's exactly what I did. I assumed you've never played a 2H, despite you saying previously that you do and despite having seen you on NA once (I only play on NA if it's late at night an no ones on Aus, so not very often) as a 2H [note: this is sarcasm]. Never mind that I said that "I find it difficult to believe you've ever even played a 2H" (implying that I am astounded that you would make such statements despite having played a 2H) and not "I don't believe you've ever played a 2H". But yes, let's continue making pointless assumptions 

So you're saying shielders need a buff?  Or archers need a nerf?

Sorry, I'll try to make my posts clearer for you. A shield with a requirement of 0 or 1 (and with a character with 0 or 1 shield skill) is near useless against an archer. I'm saying that for your argument to make any sense, the coverage of shields would need to be increased so that an archer can't shoot through the model of a board shield to hit the player's feet. Besides that, a low level shield takes a very small number of arrows to break (though I'd be OK with that - just so long as arrows don't go through the shield).

Besides that, when were we talking about a nerf? I was addressing your claim that 2H users have a way to counter archers reasonably effectively.

If they keep the bow out the 30% malus doesn't matter, you stab, they can't block, they die.  They put the bow away for a melee weapon, you put the shield away because you're not facing ranged anymore.  These are simple concepts.   

Oh, of course, how silly of me to assume that someone wouldn't try to fight me in a melee with a bow   
I wasn't saying that an archer wouldn't pull a melee weapon if you managed to get close enough and that you'd then put away the shield. I was questioning why the bloody hell you'd continue to use a longsword as a 1h weapon (and how that would be even remotely effective). Hell, even if the archer does (for some reason; perhaps they've had a stroke mid-game) keep their bow out in melee, you can safely switch to 2H anyway and destroy them.

Again, this is all assuming you can get close enough. My comment was regarding the absurdity of using the longsword as a 1h, especially with no 1h WPF. This disclaimer is provided in the hopes that you won't try to employ some logical fallacy (like claiming that I'm now saying a 2H can easily beat an archer).

Usually none.  I accept that 2hers are supposed to be weak vs ranged spam, however I do have a rank 0 shield for advancing when I'm too lazy to use cover or juke at all (which isn't often).  It gets me from point A to B just fine, B being in melee range of the ranged guy I want to kill.  You don't just walk in a straight line with the shield raised the whole time you're advancing just because you have a shield on do you?  I hope not.

Yep, I put on a shield, realise that my feet are getting shot and my shield is rapidly deteriorating and decide it best to walk in a straight line [note again: this is also sarcasm].

A decent archer can easily shoot your feet through a board shield while you slowly dodge across the field. Even if they can't, for some reason, they can sure as hell destroy your shield before you get to them.

So again is it buff shielders, or nerf throwing/ranged?

Again, it is neither. I was not discussing a nerf, I was pointing out the ridiculousness of your statements. If you really want to know what I think should happen; throwing should be nerfed. My thrower has only one weakness; other throwers. Of course, a sneaky ninja can get a quick hit or two on me, but a sneaky anything could do that as well.

So you made a concious decision to give up protection vs ranged.  Good for you.  I do the same as well most of the time on my 2hers and polearm toons.  However just because you choose not to use it, doesn't mean the capability doesn't exist.  Big difference.

Yes, forgive me for making that assumption. I mean, I've obviously missed the point in my post and completely neglected that a 2H can use a shield [note again: this is sarcasm]. I think it's quite bloody obvious that I'm saying that a shield is so damned useless that it's easier to just dodge projectiles than weigh yourself down with a shield.

Hopefully my use of the sarcasm notes and my increase in detail with explanations will reduce the number of straw man arguments used in your post. I'm doubtful though. (Also of note, I wouldn't be talking to you like this if you'd stop behaving like a smug douche).


Reply to other posts while typing:

They'll stop an arrow or two, for no skill investment.  Otherwise put 1 point into shield skill and carry:
Nordic Shield
1064
weight 3.5
requirement 1
hit points 240
body armor 5
spd rtng 100
shield width 34

Or

Old Board Shield
600
weight 4.5
requirement 1
hit points 200
body armor 1
spd rtng 89
shield width 26
shield height 60
Can't use on horseback

That's at least 200 hp worth of protection for 1 point invested.

That's at least 200 hp worth of protection if you're trying to block the arrows of an absolutely terrible (in skill, please don't twist this to assume I'm commenting on an archer's moral or other fortitude) archer. As I've said; any decent archer (even my level 20 archer) can shoot through a board shield to hit people's feet.

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General Discussion / Re: Two Handed Spam

« on: March 03, 2011, 01:51:19 am »

lol Yes they do.

Oh noes an archer is shooting at me, a shield might be handy here... *equips shield and proceeds to rape archer with longsword used 1h'd*
Damn, this shield isn't going to be much help vs that lolaxe *puts shield on back and rapes lolaxer with longsword*

Omg, my teammates need help but there's a thrower in there, wut do  *equips shield and hoplite stabs the thrower with awlpike*
Damn, that guy knows how to block down *puts shield on back and speed rapes with lawlpike*

I find it difficult to believe you've ever even played a 2H.

A shield is near useless against a half-decent archer - even my level 20 archer can easily shoot a 2H in the feet from long distance. Unless you're saying 2H have the option of putting many points into shield, making them have the same stats as a 1h, but without the ability to use a sword and shield at the same time. And seriously, using a longsword with a shield to kill an archer!? I know most of the players on NA suck balls (even with a ping of 250+ I can maintain a positive K/D ratio when I play on an NA server), but I seriously can't believe that archers are so crap at melee that they would be able to beat someone using a sword with a 30% speed reduction (and, of course, no 1H WPF).

As for shielding against a thrower: what shield skill do your 2H characters have?? I ended up putting 1 into mine just so it would be a little harder for archers to shoot my feet (still happens a lot though), but it takes 2 axes/javs maximum to break my shield. Then I'm in the open with throwing spam headed my way. My own thrower destroys any 2Hers shields in 1 hit (I've got 10 PT). Then I kill proceed to kill them (even a tin can with high IF) in two shots with my heavy axes.

I've given up using my shield against all but the worst of throwers and archers; and even then I'll only bother if there's only a few of them on the other team, otherwise I'll just have a broken shield in a few seconds.

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General Discussion / Re: effective throwing

« on: February 24, 2011, 08:34:25 am »

Damage isn't the main with low PT throwing; it's the horrible accuracy! WPF doesn't do all that much, so you won't be very accurate at all. Still, as long as your planning on only using it to soften a target up with a quick throw just before you melee them, it should be ok.

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Game Balance Discussion / Re: Crushtrough - My take on a fix

« on: February 21, 2011, 04:29:43 pm »

That still doesn't strengthen your argument UrLurker: I'm talking about balancing 1v1. I can see no advantage for 2h (I'm talking grand scheme of things; not 'he has 20 more range!') in a duel. Which class are they supposed to be better than? Or do you believe they should be slaughtered by archers and cav (while shielders are only slaughtered by cav) and then have an equal or lesser chance against shielders?

At least with a fastish crush through weapon (if they made it better vs shields, though worse vs weapon blocks) they'd have an advantage over one class. The only 'advantage' I have with my 2h over my 1h is I kill crap players faster (though my 2h risks getting an unlucky hit from them if I screw up a block, whereas my shielder is at risk of getting hit only if my heart fails IRL mid-duel). Speed in killing large numbers of crap players is not an advantage.


Sorry Magikarp; didn't mean to derail the thread. In a roundabout way I was trying to show that the main advantage a 2h has against a shielder with a huscarl (especially loomed) is a decent crush through weapon (either that, or they need lots of time, amazing manual blocking skills and a big axe).

Edit:

Old screen, i rarely do screens. I just did 3 kills in one round with 2h in cRPG.

IT"S CLEARLY OP THEN!!!1111

On a more serious note; were you duelling skilled shielders when you got those? Or did you gank a few peasants and decide you had the skillz?

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Game Balance Discussion / Re: Crushtrough - My take on a fix

« on: February 21, 2011, 04:11:04 pm »

I give up. It's useless: I have many different builds and am talking specifically about my personal experiences with them. You can't convince me that my shielder is somehow disadvantaged in a duel vs 2h or polearm because I have slaughtered people with it whom I would normally have a 50/50 chance of beating with my 2h or polearm alts.

Using a shield is easy mode. If you're not one of the best players on the server, you will find melee easier with a shield build. The best players on my server would likely find a shield as easy as 2h/polearm, but that's only because they seem to be able to manual block like a robot. Anyone that can't block 20 swings in a row (plus account for feints) from two or more players at once will likely find shielding much easier.

I think most shields are OK, but the huscarl shield and heirloomed shields take way too much of a beating to get through. I duel (if you can call it that with a shield) with a huscarl because it takes so damn long to break with a high tier axe and I barely notice the slight reduction in speed. I have, however, used other shields as well (board, kite and heater) and find that they're still very easy to win with when fighting someone without an axe.

BTW, thanks for posting the pictures showing you dominating as a shielder...that really strengthens your point...somehow?

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Suggestions Corner / Re: Archery buff

« on: February 21, 2011, 04:08:17 pm »

If the game can deal with fast bows and high arrow damage why cant humans?

Again, that'd be fine if the board shield would protect the areas it visually covers, regardless of shield skill. Otherwise, 2h/polearm have the choice of either dodging a LOT (and are screwed if their a hill or stairs) or using a shield and hoping that the enemy archers are crap and can't aim ('hoping the other team sucks' isn't exactly a great game mechanic).

But yeah, if somehow people could unite and create big shield walls, it'd be amazing; but it's not going to happen any time soon 

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Suggestions Corner / Re: Archery buff

« on: February 21, 2011, 03:17:23 pm »

Frank, if realism was the goal, my feet wouldn't be getting shot through my board shield just because I'm not skilled with shields. The invisible wall of shields is a bit ridiculous, but worse is the immaterial model of the shields. If board shields could soak up more arrows and actually stop arrows where the model is, I'd have much less of an issue with archers.

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Game Balance Discussion / Re: Crushtrough - My take on a fix

« on: February 21, 2011, 03:12:00 pm »

1h when shield is on have disadvantage in feinting.

Care to explain why? I find feinting a lot easier with my shielder because I don't have to worry about directional blocking.

When it's off, they don't have initiative to feint (range, range, range).

Only if you've made a really slow turtle build which can't run faster forwards than the average player can run backwards.

Not really faster than even greatswords, due to multiple factors (stun), with light shields happens.

Wait, what!? You think that getting stunned once off (haven't had it happen to me more than once in a fight with someone) means that a scimitar or side sword is slower than a greatsword? What other factors do you have in mind?

Polearms also have to buy pike to counter cav.

Polearm users are expected to have to use polearms...what's your point? Regardless, my polearm alts can take out almost any cav (except the very best) with a long voulge or even the long hafted blade.

Shield is not only protection against ranged but also burden (sloooooooow, cant dodge well).

I find it a great burden to not be able to dodge those arrows and, instead, only soak thousands of them up with my huscarl.

2h is great for teamwork, it's already great in melee. Just help your team, not expect to go solo.  2h is dominating the servers, it's surely not UP. More like OP.

I have to agree with Xant on this; the more skilled players go with 2h/polearm builds. I don't think I'm amazingly skilled, but I find my thrower and turtle builds too easy to be fun (except as stress relief), so I prefer to play my 2h and polearm builds.

Also, to put it bluntly, you have problem just with huscarl and side sword.

I'm not sure what this means (I can't understand what you're trying to say). I think you're saying that I'm only complaining about the huscarl and side sword. Even if I was, that's still a viable weapon selection (just because there're others, doesn't mean people won't choose the best). However, I'm talking about a range of shields (though huscarl stands out as the worst; I turtled a guy with a polaxe today and he hit my shield 6 times without it even coming close to breaking...he didn't get a 7 because he was dead and I still had full health) and a range of weapons (elite scim, cav sword with it's ridiculous range, etc).

1h have shitty footwork with shield, without shield footwork is comparable. 2h have range advantage, that coupled with footwork advantage, build advantage and animations advantage owns against the shield.

You've really gotta drop some of this stuff. Build advantage? Because they might have put those 6 or so shield points into an extra 3 agi or str? That's meant to give them some massive advantage over you when you don't even have to manual block? The animations aren't an advantage; the swings with 1h seem as fast to me as 2h, except 1h swings are harder to see. 2H stab further, that's it. Shouldn't be a problem if you know how to click the right mouse button.

That super side strike have -20 range, and require aim, it's not instant head hit, every strike can be aimed.

Most of my left to right swings with my 1h are head shots, unless I'm looking at their feet.

2h is dominating because it's most powerful. Everyone can top the scoreboard. ATM i top it. It's not telling anything about it's duel abilities.

I can duel with you too. 2h have better animations.

I really have trouble understanding what you write. I can't tell if you have no point or if you simply can't express it well.

Anyway, in light of this thread I spent most of my game time today picking 1v1 fights with 2h and polearm users. Occasionally they won (some of the absolutely amazing players can block basically anything), but most players who weren't renowned for being the best on the server lost significantly more than they won. My shield was rarely broken (aside from when I got ganked) and when it was the enemy usually had very little health left and died quickly. I'm not saying I'm skilled; I would never beat people 1v1 that much with my 2h - I'm saying shielding is easy mode for duelling.

Edit: I can barely even see that picture; it's so bloody small! Upload the full size version, not the thumbnail!

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Game Balance Discussion / Re: Crushtrough - My take on a fix

« on: February 21, 2011, 06:39:48 am »

what do blades get? blades don't do anything extra special the swing a little faster? ok ill trade you a slight faster swing for a high chance of not being able to get blocked.

High chance of crush through is only when the bar mace (or similar) are heirloomed. I think the weight increase of looms should be removed, rather than crush through removed. As it is, I've never crushed through with the bar mace against an opponent using a weapon, but very occasionally (like, 1% chance) I will crush through a decent shield. I prefer swords though (since crush through doesn't work vs shields anyway), so I'm not exactly defending the bar mace.

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Game Balance Discussion / Re: Crushtrough - My take on a fix

« on: February 21, 2011, 04:24:34 am »

I can beat them too, still, dueling with worse stats (they have no wasted points in shields), worse damage and worse range and worse speed and less stun is surely disadvantage. IF you don't get how, i can't help you.

I'm fully aware that they'd be at a minor disadvantage, but I don't get why they should therefore have a big advantage vs melee when they have their shield on.

They have advantage in feinting speed, they are faster so breaking the rythm against them is harder to do, they deal more damage so they can turn into swing more, they stun. They have some chances against horses (unlike 1h). They are great for supporting in melee, and that is their role.

1h have a huge advantage in feinting (as I said, they can feint all day and never have to worry about changing direction to block), they are almost as fast (often faster if vsing a higher tier sword), damage difference is negligible (at most it takes one extra swing to kill someone on my 1h compared to my 2h, unless they're heavily tin canned), stun only happens if the 1h blocks with their weapon (at least, I've never stunned nor been stunned with a shield).

This game is not paper rock scissor. 2h is melee support, they have best dueling weapons, they have mauls, they have edge over shield users and in specific cases against pole users. 2h is meant to be melee, like poles and 1h+shield, they are not supposed to be melee counter. Jack of all trades.

So 2h are the jack of all melee trades, master of none? Because they sure can't beat ranged (because of the shield nerf) and they barely stand a chance against cav (they have much chance as a 1h if they each have a pike, though). How can someone be the jack of all trades, but only melee 'trades' (even then their advantage over the other two melee 'classes' ius highly questionable at best)? And, by 'support', do you mean the 2h's role is to stand back and swing into a group fight?

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Game Balance Discussion / Re: Crushtrough - My take on a fix

« on: February 21, 2011, 03:09:02 am »

trololol. Unequip shield and fight like inferior 2h that wasted gold for shield and wasted skillpoints for it ? U mad bro ?

Besides, some shields already require skill to use, bucklers and cav shields are examples.

Buckler requires skill? Against ranged it isn't great, against melee it's the same as any other shield (though it does break quickly from an axe at least).

I can beat 2h and polearm users in a duel without a shield on my 1h alt as easily as I can with my 2h. The only way I'm limited without a shield is I don't do as well in big brawls (2h have the range to stay back, but a 1h without a shield can get killed easily in a big group fight).

If you think it's so ridiculous, how do you propose 2h/polearms have some kind of advantage over shielders? Everyone keeps saying it's 'rock paper scissors', but I've yet to see what advantage 2h users have against any class. They're marginally faster than a shielder, though not enough to mean anything and they have slightly longer range which can be countered easily by face hugging, they can get shot in the feet through a board shield by ranged (somehow; it's kinda ridiculous when I play my archer and shoot through the wood into someone's foot and kill them) and they don't have the range advantage vs cav. Which class is 2h meant to beat?