Topics

1

Game Balance Discussion / New Archery System Proposal

« on: June 16, 2012, 08:04:26 pm »

I understand the rationale behind making more powerful bows have less accuracy, what I DON'T understand is why having a higher powerdraw for any given bow would result in an archer being less accurate.

I have no problem with archers as they exist now, but I genuinely don't think that the problem that other people have with archers are 'snipers', but the archers that can fire rapid shots at close range into groups of melee players in the face [accuracy being irreleant at such a range] Often times switching back and forth between melee and archery.

I'd like to suggest an alternative system, I'll first explain the system and then explain the benefits. I'm not CERTAIN if this system can actually be coded in the game, but I will assume it can.

Before you read on let me make a preemptive strike against people who might accuse me of advocating a system based on 'realism'. I don't want to argue that this system is more realistic than what exists already; since there are a number of people who see anyone who calls for more realism threatens the balance of the game. I genuinely think this system will help the so-called balance issues with archery. 


First, All Archers have what might be called a "Stamina" or "Energy" bar.

Second, This stamina bar is drained from the period between when a player knocks the arrow [places the arrow on the bow and prepares to draw] to when the player looses the arrow. It does not drain when the player actually grabs the arrow from the quiver.

Third, This stamina bar regenerates automatically so long as the archer is not drawing his bow.

Fourth, As the Stamina bar drains, it hits a series of thresholds, the precise number of thresholds can be decided [Or a continuum could be implemented, It doesn't really matter] The lower thresholds have lower accuracy levels, I.e. the more drained a player's stamina the less accurate the shot will be when loosed from the bow.

Fifth, When the Stamina bar is depleted entirely, the player is 'exhausted' and is unable to draw the bow any further until the stamina bar is sufficiently.

Sixth, Weapon proficiency determines a player's draw speed and accuracy at all thresholds. Two players using the same bow with the same stamina level will have different accurateness if their WPF differ.

Seventh, The more powerful a bow is, the greater the drain on stamina.

Eighth, Powerdraw REDUCES the drain on stamina caused by drawing any given bow AND/OR increases the speed at which stamina regenerates. [Either should suffice]

Ninth, In this system, for the sake of balance, POWERDRAW would not be as important in determining the damage of a bow. 

Tenth, You *COULD* also increase the drain on Stamina caused if a player draws his bow whilst moving, in order to penalize players who use bows like throwing weapons. I'm not adamant about this, but I don't see why Bows need to function as close range Hit-n-run weapons when throwing weapons already function as such.

Eleventh, things like arrow speed and damage and accuracy are kept in the same general way as they are now, as far as slower draw speed, and higher arrow speed.

What this means is that it may not be necessary to have mandatory PD requirements for more powerful bows, because, for example, a player with 0 PD who tried to use a longbow would find it impossible because his Stamina would deplete before being able to get the shot off. And even if he could get the shot off before exhaustion kicked in, the shot would be hopelessly inaccurate.

In this system, Powerdraw does not INCREASE accuracy, but it does help PRESERVE accuracy. Likewise high WPF for a high powered bow does not guarantee accurate shots unless you can maintain a high stamina, which requires  1. sufficient levels of powerdraw and requires that you 2. that Do not try to rapidfire your bow 3. Do not hold your bow in the aimed position for too long

So let's say you have a level 30 with 8 PD using a short bow, that player might be able to fire arrows continuously because his high powerdraw completely negates the relatively small drain on his stamina. However, the shots from an 8 PD shortbow would only be marginally stronger than the shots from an 4PD shortbow.

This system, if implemented correctly, will PROBABLY make a high-level longbow user quite a bit superior to a crossbowman [Because longbow shots now have the potential to be extremely accurate] But I view this as reasonable considering that many crossbow users do not require any skill points invested in their weapon, and some do not even use that much WPF. Whether or not it actually does would be based upon the specific way the system was tweaked. Also the longbowman cannot 'hold' his shot without losing accuracy, nor could he fire many shots at an enemy without each subsequent shot being less accurate than the next. [Unless he waits between each shot or has a very high PD, in which case his WPF suffers and is less accurate overall]

In general, this system will probably benefit archers at long range and melee users at close range, AS IT SHOULD BE. It will also help dedicated archers who as I've said before are really not the main source of frustration for melee users.

2

Suggestions Corner / Weapon Proficiency Levels

« on: June 15, 2012, 07:28:47 pm »

My issue with weapon proficiency is that the differences between each individual WPF point so marginal, that the difference between 130 and 140 WPF is neglibile with respect to human reflexes. In my opinion it would make more sense to implement a WPF system where there were fewer levels, say ranging from 0-10, [with a few extra levels for hypothetical but generally unused super-agility builds] Where each level is noticably faster than the next. I'm providing a HYPOTHETICAL way that this could be implemented but Do not focus all of your attention on the particular assignments I gave to each weapon mastery. 

Weapon Proficiency Points

Level 1 = 1
Level 2 = 3
Level 3 = 5
Level 4 = 10
Level 5 = 16
Level 6 = 21
Level 7 = 28
Level 8 = 36
Level 9 = 45
Level 10 = 55
Level 11 = 66
Level 12 = 78

This just shows the number of WPF points [seen on the right] required to purchase one single level of Weapon proficiency.



I am thinking that level 6 or level 7 is your functional "115 WPF", where the weapon speed is where the stats suggest it would be. Supposing 7 was your '115', Level 8 would be noticably faster than that, level 9 noticably faster than that, and level 10+ is your extreme range.

The key is that for each level, especially levels 6-10, there is a noticable increase in speed, one which could potentially make a difference with respect to actual human reflexes.



As I said before this is an an example, but let's say a level 1 starts off with 3 free points. You could implement a system where the player gets 1 additional point every other level. So ignoring WM and agility, a level 30 gets 17 WM points and a level 31 gets 18, a level 33 gets 19, and a level 35 gets 20. I personally regard it as fair that a player who hypothetically

Level 1 = +4  [4 total]
Level 2 = +4  [8 total]
Level 3 = +4  [12 total]
Level 4 = +4  [16 total]
Level 5 = +5  [21 total]
Level 6 = +5  [26 total]
Level 7 = +5  [31 total]
Level 8 = +5  [36 total]
Level 9 = +6  [42 total]
Level 10 = +6 [48 total]
Level 11 = +6 [54 total]
Level 12 = +6 [60 total]

3

Beginner's Help and Guides / Consider the following

« on: May 11, 2012, 05:35:32 am »

I've recently switched from a polearms build to a 2h sword build, I wanna be the guy that runs around like aragorn with the bastard sword.

My original polearms build was 18/21 [balanced] with 6 points in IF,PS,AG,WM, and 164 points in polearms. My preferred weapons were usually either the english bill, long awlpike, awlpike, or spear.

I noticed that in spite of having a slower weapon, with only 2 [and in the pike, 1] attack dirrection, it was often significantly easier to kill someone with a long spear weapon than with a sword. Not simply because it takes fewer hits to kill someone with one than with the other, but even counting the number of times i was able to hit opponents.
I was shocked at how easily people will let down their guard.

I was wondering why and I came up with some ideas, I'd just like to know what your thoughts are on the plausibility of these.

1. Enemies are more acustomed to fighting against swordsmen than spearmen

Quite alot of people end up going 2h swordsmen in CRPG, and quite alot of them are good at recognizing 2h and 1h animations as a result. They're also more comfortable with timing their attacks with respect to the spacing of the range of a sword rather than a long weapon. I noticed alot of the kills I got were as a result of people not being able to properly judge the distance they could reach me compared to  my distance to reach them. Often times I would backpedal with the billhook, [agility 21, athletics 6] and outpace slower heavier players, they would swing at me before I swung at them but I'd still end up killing them because I'd be out of range.

2. My strategy with polearms is usually different than with swords, using the english bill or the pike I was able to very easily get involved in sword fights between other people. Even  with a fairly long sword often times it's difficult for another person to attack someone who is already in a fight, so you end up attacking people who are not focused on YOU.

3. I played MM and now NW quite alot, so I'm more comfortable with polearms.

4

Beginner's Help and Guides / Build Progression

« on: September 14, 2011, 08:49:23 pm »

I personally think it's more useful to talk about builds in terms of several steps reaching a final Goal. Since level 35 is the highest level one can achieve, i figured it would make sense to deal with a build that ends at level 35, but also provide intermediate builds that occur at every 5 levels [starting at 15 since it becomes very difficult to be useful at a lower level anyway]

I didn't create these initially to share with anyone, but to try out myself. But I figured I might as well share them. Obviously I haven't the time to try all of them out to their final level, though I have tried the Balanced Polearms to level 26, and the ninja build to level 22, and the xbow build to level 23. 

I'll post my commentary on my idea behind each of them. You can post your feedback, and note that the [1] at the end of each line denotes that an extra skill point is available after all have been spent at a given level, but cannot be used until a higher level is attained. I didn't add what the [skill-to-attribute] conversion was for all of them.


Crossbow [Sniper-Sword] Build:
Level 35: S/A=15/30 IF=5 Ath=7 PS=4 WM=10 1h=130 xBow=161 [con 10]
Level 30: S/A=15/24 IF=5 Ath=7 PS=4 WM=8  1h=120 xBow=130
Level 25: S/A=15/18 IF=5 Ath=5 PS=4 WM=6  1h=105 xBow=120
Level 20: S/A=12/15 IF=4 Ath=5 PS=3 WM=5  1h=100 xBow=103
Level 15: S/A=12/10 IF=3 Ath=3 PS=4 WM=3  1h=75  xBow=84

When I started this build, My idea was for a crossbowman that would use the heavy-xbow or the arbalest, and at close range would follow through with a sword. Hence 'sniper-sword'. This is also why this build involves no shield.

When I used the heavy-xbow [xbow skill at approximately 100] I found it inferior to the light-xbow. 1. It did not appear to be noticably more accurate 2. faster projectile speed [and range] did little for me since the weapon accuracy made it more practical as a medium-range weapon. 3. The higher damage did not compensate for the slower reloading rate.

I'm hoping that as the Xbow wpf increases, and I get an arbalest, things will change. But supposing even if i got close to level 30ish I still found the light crossbow superior, having the same strength level would still probably be adviseable. Having the higher strength allows for purchasing ironflesh/powerstrike, since my build ended up getting 1 kill with a sword for every 2 kills with an xbow. [Regular Espada, mainly thrusting]

On the issue of not having a shield; I didn't find it very frustrating. At long range my ironflesh-strength-chainmail

Archer [Hybrid] Build
Level 35: S/A=18/27 IF=2 Ath=9 PD=6 WM=10 1h=130 xBow=161 [con 10]
Level 30: S/A=18/21 IF=2 Ath=7 PD=6 WM=7  1h=120 xBow=130 [con 8]
Level 25: S/A=15/18 IF=2 Ath=6 PD=5 WM=6  1h=100 xBow=126 [con 6] [1]
Level 20: S/A=15/15 IF=2 Ath=5 PD=5 WM=5  1h=120 xBow=130
Level 15: S/A=12/12 IF=2 Ath=4 PD=4 WM=4  1h=75  xBow=100

Similar to the Sniper-Sword, except the archer is forced to put points into power-draw instead of IF and PS, which makes them less effective in melee. Once again this class is not completely specialized since 130 points are put into 1h melee. I'm kind of nervous about trying this kind of class.

Dismounted Polearms : [Balanced]
Level 35: S/A=21/21+2 IF=7 PS=7 Ath=7 WM=7  Pol=168 [con 8]
Level 30: S/A=18/20 IF=6 PS=6 Ath=6 WM=6  Pol=154 [con 6] [1]
Level 25: S/A=18/15 IF=5 PS=5 Ath=5 WM=5  Pol=140 [con 6]
Level 20: S/A=15/12 IF=4 PS=4 Ath=4 WM=4  Pol=125 [con 4] [1]
Level 15: S/A=10/12 IF=3 PS=3 Ath=3 WM=3  Pol=108 [con 4]

My favorite class so far, partially because I am most familiar with dismounted polearm combat in the first place. I call it a Balanced polearms build because it focuses neither on heavy-hitting [high strength] or fast-swinging [high agility], but provides an excellent mix of offensive and defensive attributes.

The 21+2 denotes that the 2 additional attribute points gained at level 35 can be invested in either strength or agility with no other consequences.

My preferred weapon with this build was the English Bill, which was long enough to defend against cavalry but fast enough to be effective against infantry; especially with the piercing-overhead swing. This build is also very teamwork oriented; since it relies on overhead swings and thrusts, it can [and should] be used in conjunction with other players attacking enemies from afar. [similar to how multiple longspear or pike thrusts and overheads can be used against a single enemy without any of the pikemen/longspearmen endangering their allies.

Polearm Cavalry:
Level 35: S/A=21/21 IF=7 PS=7 Ath=4 Rid=7 WM=7 Pol=168 [con 4]
Level 30: S/A=18/18 IF=6 PS=6 Ath=4 Rid=6 WM=6 Pol=154 [con 2]
Level 25: S/A=15/16 IF=5 PS=5 Ath=4 Rid=5 WM=5 Pol=140 [con 2]
Level 20: S/A=12/13 IF=4 PS=4 Ath=4 Rid=4 WM=4 Pol=125 [con 0]
Level 15: S/A=10/10 IF=3 PS=3 Ath=3 Rid=3 WM=3 Pol=108 [con 0]

Have not tried this build yet. It's basically the above polearms build with 2 key differences. First, it takes points out of athletics and puts them into riding, second, it converts fewer skill points into attributes to accomodate for additional riding.

The idea behind such a build would be to ride with a lance and another lighter polearm.

Ninja:
Level 35: S/A=15/30 IF=1 PS=5 Ath=10 WM=10 2H=192 [con 10]
Level 30: S/A=15/24 IF=1 PS=5 Ath=8  WM=8  2H=172 [con 8] [1]
Level 25: S/A=12/21 IF=1 PS=4 Ath=7  WM=7  2H=158 [con 6] [1]
Level 20: S/A=09/18 IF=1 PS=3 Ath=6  WM=6  2H=142 [con 4] [1]
Level 15: S/A=09/13 IF=1 PS=3 Ath=4  WM=4  2H=119 [con 4]

I'm not sure what to think of this build yet. The plan was to create a fast moving 2h user. I chose 15 as a cap for strength because most of the standard 2 handed swords max out at that strength requirement. You could alternatively buy a lighter 2h like a Katana and get a build like this...

Level 35: S/A=12/33 IF=1 PS=4 Ath=10 WM=11 2H=201 [con 10]

However I hardly consider the loss of the high damage given by the extra Str, PS, and weapon worth the marginal speed increase granted by 9+wpf

5

Closed Requests / Banned from EU official [Seige+Battle] Server

« on: September 13, 2011, 09:10:57 pm »

Ingame Username: Useless_Knube

I tried joining the EU official battle server, on the first attempt I received a 'User disconnected' message, after connecting the second time, I was kicked and the message log said I was banned. I tried the same thing on the euro-seige server and got roughly the same thing. [disconnected twice and then banned] I joined the NA server but did not have this problem. [thankfully]

Now I'm not sure if being disconnected twice was the cause [or the effect] of being banned or whether the two are completely unrelated. Because I don't know precisely why I was banned I'm going to post all possible theories and try and give as much information as possible. [Even if it turns out to be inconsequential]

First, I don't remember being kicked from the server prior to leaving it myself [intentionally] And I do not remember anything being said to me immediately prior to leaving. I usually switch between EU and NA server when the latter becomes more populated than the former. [EU ping averages 120, NA averages 38, so the size of the server is the main determinant for me].

I was kicked by an admin once from a server, but I cannot remember if it was on the NA or EU server. The offense was for creating a poll to kick myself, but I was able to rejoin the server promptly after being kicked, so even if that kick occured on the EU server, it probably wasn't the reason for the ban.

I've been kicked a few times, especially from the EU server, whenever the server population was very high. But I had figured that these kicks were some automated feature  designed to reserve slots for admins or preferred players. [I was kicked from a server before I had created my first character] But none of these kicks were bans. [according to the gamelog]

The other possibility is the accusation of leeching. On one of the maps [I had just switched from a ninja-character to a crossbow character] I had made a bad habit of missing enemies and either nearly hitting allies or accidentally hitting them, so the next round I stayed on a bridge towards the back of the map and waited till most of the team was dead before doing anything.

I left euroserver to play on NA server some time during the afternoon, because I wasn't kicked or banned at any particular time I can't remember when my EU server gaming changed to NA server gaming.

6

Suggestions Corner / Two [and a half] Plausible ways to Nerf Cav without nerfing Cav

« on: September 05, 2011, 07:01:25 pm »

I agree with the sentiments that Cavalry is overpowered, I also agree with the sentiments that this is largely an inevitability. As long as one team chooses to fight in loose formation with their infantry composed primarily of archers, xbows, and swordsmen, a smart player with a half decent horse and half decent equipment can kill far more players than he would normally if he were fighting on foot.

However I can think of two, or maybe three ways in which cavalry can be weakened LARGELY without changing the balance scheme for the rest of the
Crazy, inorite?

1. Archers Stakes

We already have "Siege shields" which can prevent frontal cavalry charges and provide some defense against arrowfire, but these things are less of a threat to cavalry and more of a nuisance. But what about archers Stakes? of the kind that were featured in Empire/Medieval II total war.

What I imagine is a throwable item that either deploys a small row or small arc of wooden stakes out from the direction the player is facing, or [and this would be more complicated] the throwable item has between 4-8 ammunition and will deploy 1 stake for every one thrown.

Also, the stakes could pose a real threat to cavalry by inflicting damage on horses if they charge into the stakes at the pointed end, proportional to the speed at which the horses are running. However this addition is not wholly necessary, as most cav players are USUALLY as good as dead if they are ever caught in a position where their horse stops completely. [which is what happens if they choose to run directly into a wall of anything.

Because the stakes are pointed at an incline, they would only prevent movement in 1 direction. So unless the team of infantry uses heavy teamwork to deploy a ring of stakes, cavalry can still perform a flanking or rear charge and run through the stakes from behind.

Whether or not a full speed horse should be permitted to jump over the stakes is an interesting question. I personally would be opposed to it since it defeats the point of having stakes entirely but if horses are not able to attack whilst jumping, it's probably more dangerous for the horseman than the guy behind the stakes.

2. Couched Pikes [or braced pikes]

Lancers are given the choice of simply pointing their lance in the direction they want it to deal damage, and using the speed and momentum of the horse to impale whatever gets in the way of their lance. Why shouldn't pikemen be able to do the same?

My idea is to have as an option for the long spear and the pike [the pike-pike, not the Ahlspiess], via the X button, lower their pike a few degrees above horizontal. The pikeman is now in a 'braced' formation, and cannot move his body [although he can rotate] Whilst in this position, any horse or horseman that runs into him will suffer the equivalent of couched lance damage, varying in proportion to the horses speed.

For the sake of balance, the couched lance damage is only dealt to the horse/horseman if they come into contact with the tip of the spear, not the shaft. [otherwise a player could go into this formation, spin around, and trip every horse that comes within 3 meters of him.

Two other nuances. First, unlike regular couched lance attacks, the 'couched pike' does not have a time limit for length of use. I.e. the pikeman can remain in a couched pike position for as long as he wants to. However if the pikeman does make contact with a horse/horseman the pike automatically exits the couched position and has to engage in a cooldown period.

This makes pikes even more formidable against cavalry but renders them no less vulnerable to infantry and skirmishers.

3.) Deployable Pavise [i.e. Board Shields]

to my knowledge the pavise or 'board shield' was used in the same general way that siege shields are used presently, providing the user with cover against arrow fire. My idea is that certain [not all] board shields have the ability via the X button to become a thrown weapon, turning it into a smaller and weaker version of the siege shield.