Author Topic: Two [and a half] Plausible ways to Nerf Cav without nerfing Cav  (Read 697 times)

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Offline Frederick

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Two [and a half] Plausible ways to Nerf Cav without nerfing Cav
« on: September 05, 2011, 07:01:25 pm »
+4
I agree with the sentiments that Cavalry is overpowered, I also agree with the sentiments that this is largely an inevitability. As long as one team chooses to fight in loose formation with their infantry composed primarily of archers, xbows, and swordsmen, a smart player with a half decent horse and half decent equipment can kill far more players than he would normally if he were fighting on foot.

However I can think of two, or maybe three ways in which cavalry can be weakened LARGELY without changing the balance scheme for the rest of the
Crazy, inorite?

1. Archers Stakes

We already have "Siege shields" which can prevent frontal cavalry charges and provide some defense against arrowfire, but these things are less of a threat to cavalry and more of a nuisance. But what about archers Stakes? of the kind that were featured in Empire/Medieval II total war.

What I imagine is a throwable item that either deploys a small row or small arc of wooden stakes out from the direction the player is facing, or [and this would be more complicated] the throwable item has between 4-8 ammunition and will deploy 1 stake for every one thrown.

Also, the stakes could pose a real threat to cavalry by inflicting damage on horses if they charge into the stakes at the pointed end, proportional to the speed at which the horses are running. However this addition is not wholly necessary, as most cav players are USUALLY as good as dead if they are ever caught in a position where their horse stops completely. [which is what happens if they choose to run directly into a wall of anything.

Because the stakes are pointed at an incline, they would only prevent movement in 1 direction. So unless the team of infantry uses heavy teamwork to deploy a ring of stakes, cavalry can still perform a flanking or rear charge and run through the stakes from behind.

Whether or not a full speed horse should be permitted to jump over the stakes is an interesting question. I personally would be opposed to it since it defeats the point of having stakes entirely but if horses are not able to attack whilst jumping, it's probably more dangerous for the horseman than the guy behind the stakes.

2. Couched Pikes [or braced pikes]

Lancers are given the choice of simply pointing their lance in the direction they want it to deal damage, and using the speed and momentum of the horse to impale whatever gets in the way of their lance. Why shouldn't pikemen be able to do the same?

My idea is to have as an option for the long spear and the pike [the pike-pike, not the Ahlspiess], via the X button, lower their pike a few degrees above horizontal. The pikeman is now in a 'braced' formation, and cannot move his body [although he can rotate] Whilst in this position, any horse or horseman that runs into him will suffer the equivalent of couched lance damage, varying in proportion to the horses speed.

For the sake of balance, the couched lance damage is only dealt to the horse/horseman if they come into contact with the tip of the spear, not the shaft. [otherwise a player could go into this formation, spin around, and trip every horse that comes within 3 meters of him.

Two other nuances. First, unlike regular couched lance attacks, the 'couched pike' does not have a time limit for length of use. I.e. the pikeman can remain in a couched pike position for as long as he wants to. However if the pikeman does make contact with a horse/horseman the pike automatically exits the couched position and has to engage in a cooldown period.

This makes pikes even more formidable against cavalry but renders them no less vulnerable to infantry and skirmishers.

3.) Deployable Pavise [i.e. Board Shields]

to my knowledge the pavise or 'board shield' was used in the same general way that siege shields are used presently, providing the user with cover against arrow fire. My idea is that certain [not all] board shields have the ability via the X button to become a thrown weapon, turning it into a smaller and weaker version of the siege shield.

Offline Fuma Kotaro

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Re: Two [and a half] Plausible ways to Nerf Cav without nerfing Cav
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2011, 07:11:00 pm »
+1
the first idea is fantastic i really like it and thats possible to make
the second idea isnt that good in my opinion cause the pike and long spear are anti cav weaps they dint need a new feature
and the last idea really good but i think it is good as not possible (im no pro in programming)
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Offline Kalitorian

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Re: Two [and a half] Plausible ways to Nerf Cav without nerfing Cav
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2011, 07:16:07 pm »
0
same as leonidas

Offline Mithus

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Re: Two [and a half] Plausible ways to Nerf Cav without nerfing Cav
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2011, 07:38:09 pm »
0
So want no to worry about it? created a battle server cavalary free, if any player spawn with a horse, it will die in that moment.
After a month see which server is more popular.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2011, 07:39:56 pm by Mithus »

Offline clown1231

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Re: Two [and a half] Plausible ways to Nerf Cav without nerfing Cav
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2011, 10:01:14 pm »
-1
I really like the first idea, it would add yet another piece of strategy to the game.

As for the second idea, pikes are decent enough against cavalry.

Offline Volos

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Re: Two [and a half] Plausible ways to Nerf Cav without nerfing Cav
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2011, 10:17:55 pm »
0
I agree Frederik, with what you said. Cavalry is pretty balance. The only situation where I've seen cavalry as exploited is where SOMEONE, I won't mention names, lol, rides a heavily armored horse, is themselves fully armored, wearing one and sometimes two shields and has figured out the SWEET SPOT when it comes to using the Heavy Lance thrust. I've watch them ride around ho hum and just pick people off way too easily. I've pretty sure they have STRENTGH up and have a huge POWER STRIKE cause that's all you need to thrust and a high enough agility to have 5 or 6 RIDING.

Buuuut, I see people use their brains and team up into formation and stuff and unhorse those particular cavalry very easily.

Like you said, if people are in loose formation, which most teams usually are cause one dumbass charges foward and runs towards enemy and everyone else is like, hmm I guess I better follow too du huh. And then they all spread out and get picked off and killed by enemy cavalry and archers.

I've seen and many times told my team to form up and use different types of tactics and we've easily killed cavalry or large groups of heavy cavalry. It can be done, all people have to do is read a bit about military and mediaval combat tactics, cause they actually work in this game and this game is built that way believe it or not(it's why I play it).

Aaaannnd, when someone is giving advice in-game through chat, there's always some idiot who'll say STFU or NO I WANT TO CHARGE!!!! or something stupid tween comment. It's best to listen to good strategy especially if you don't know any and are a young sperm.

What happens when people don't listen is what happens in real combat, everyone panics, rounts or scatter and they get picked off one by one. CHAAARGGE!!!!! SPLAT! DEAD!

CAVALRY is FINE and can be defeated EASILY.

I have 5 characters, 3 cavalry and have killed easily, been killed easily and have anti-cav weapons and tactics especially for cavalry.
Game Characters: Volos, Volossa, Ashalem, Vorexuonek, Brun

Offline Glyph

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Re: Two [and a half] Plausible ways to Nerf Cav without nerfing Cav
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2011, 09:01:47 am »
0
i'm pure cav and i like these ideas, pike bracing has already been made an anymation for, another guy made the stakes, pavises would not only get cav, but archers too. look them up on the suggestion forum.
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