Additionally, it would be nice if true peasants, that is players below level ~20, were compensated so they gain gold at the old rate. New players need gold.
(1)So now we can have tin-cans running around, whether or not they help the team get a multiplier?Pretty amusing post, sadly the entire thing from start to finish doesn't apply in this thread. Allow me to shred your post apart, sentence by sentence.
(2)I'm sorry, but leechers exist on both teams in the long run. (3)If you can't afford keeping your favourite armor on at all times, you are just not a good enough player, and should adjust the cost of your gear. Skyrayfox was cruising for days on his plated charger recently, but he was also making his team win consistently, and it's a given that he either had a near-constant x5 or he would loose his cash very fast.. Even if it were a million.
(4)Anyway.. this idea would soften up the game a bit, and if I know the devs right, they are all for trolling and a hardcore perhaps unfair game experience! :)
Don't get me wrong I dislike leechers, but this is not the way (if any) to deal with them.
Tbh this is just another way to make equipment more afordable and along with it more desireble , I think it is clear for eveyone to see that if this was implementated the "border" for equipment cost would be moved, so you could have even more expensive gear on. Some of us are against this. I have a feeling this will be the new 2h vs polearm discussion (low vs high upkeep), where its all just about personal preferences.
Don't get me wrong I dislike leechers, but this is not the way (if any) to deal with them.
Tbh this is just another way to make equipment more afordable and along with it more desireble , I think it is clear for eveyone to see that if this was implementated the "border" for equipment cost would be moved, so you could have even more expensive gear on. Some of us are against this. I have a feeling this will be the new 2h vs polearm discussion (low vs high upkeep), where its all just about personal preferences.
insurance is for real world, not video games.I wish people would read everything in its entirety. You can easily implement this without a change to item sustainability. Currently with an average 2.0 multiplier for an entire gen a person would break even if they used 50,000 gold in equipment for the entire gen. With my sustem it would be roughly the same, if anything, it would be slightly less.
Insurance ruins the cost of pvp in EVE & PotBS.
If your team is a bunch of naked leechers, guess what...you have plenty of options, which include NOT wearing your best armor.
I want to use my plate armour and bec every round without ever running out of money so i can butcher more peasants.
I vote no.
I vote no.
His suggestion needn't affect the sustainability of high cost load outs. It would create a line (albeit an arbitrary one), whereby all loadouts of equal and lesser cost yield the same average gain of gold, while anything above that line would decrease gold gain at the same rate as the current system.
honestly, the only thing i see this accomplishing... is increasing the average amount of armour that people wear... which directly nerfs all the people who play agility chars.. and seeing as agi chars already get the shaft... i would rather not see more armour thanks.
Matey,
RTFP
Read the fucking post. If you don't understand that it will in no way change, and even probably reduce the maximum equipment cost that an average player can break even with, read it again.
say what you like... but it is a fact that people could sustain heavy armour with greater ease if this were implemented. id rather see less plate than more, thanks.
Elerion raises a good point about actual peasants. While you're taking away the advantage of a low cost loadout for high level players, you're also making it much more difficult for peasants to accumulate the gold to buy new gear, compared to the current system. Perhaps if the gold put toward insurance started low, and increases with level?Maybe, but then things are getting a bit more complicated. The argument is something like this:
I vote no.I thought you were an NA player? Since when do I not already wear plate EVERY round. I have probably more gold and heirlooms than just about any single individual that plays crpg on NA. I don't need gold nor am I concerned about upkeep. Furthermore, I'm about to buy a Champion Mamluk from Xol for just over a mil gold on which I will be wearing my plate and bringing my bec every round with a lance as well. I really couldn't care any less about upkeep. As far as I'm concerned, upkeep was rendered useless when the market came out.
OK, so YOU wouldnt wear armour any more often... but others would... i still vote NO. I'd rather see armour costs increase :D metal armour is for pansies!Sure, which means that I'm not biased. Which is all the more reason for you to realize what I and everyone else in this thread has been stating.
Sure, which means that I'm not biased. Which is all the more reason for you to realize what I and everyone else in this thread has been stating.
At 30g per tic on a x1 multi and 40-50g insurance/buffer, you could only sustain the same, if not less armor cost. Which means there would be no reason at all to expect a rise in the amount of plate users.
OK, so YOU wouldnt wear armour any more often... but others would... i still vote NO. I'd rather see armour costs increase :D metal armour is for pansies!
how can it NOT lead to more plate? 30gold per tick + 50 in insurance... thats 80 gold per tick for the sake of maintaining your gear. OK so it's harder to stockpile gold, and thus harder to buy gear... but it is definetly going to make it easier to maintain... say nothing breaks.. you keep your 30 per tick. say everything breaks, well then you were effectively making 80 per tick instead of 30. say a bit breaks and your 'insurance money' covers it, you pocket your 30 per tick. in what way can you possibly have a harder time maintaining expensive gear with such a system?
how can it NOT lead to more plate? 30gold per tick + 50 in insurance... thats 80 gold per tick for the sake of maintaining your gear. OK so it's harder to stockpile gold, and thus harder to buy gear... but it is definetly going to make it easier to maintain... say nothing breaks.. you keep your 30 per tick. say everything breaks, well then you were effectively making 80 per tick instead of 30. say a bit breaks and your 'insurance money' covers it, you pocket your 30 per tick. in what way can you possibly have a harder time maintaining expensive gear with such a system?
<Tydeus> shouldn't make saving up for items too much longer. I mean, it could. When a peasant saved up for his first expensive weapon or armor, using it wouldn't be counted against him. He could still use it without an income loss as the upkeep for the item wouldn't be subtracting from his gold earned or at least not entirely. Before when I made alts or started out, I would save up for my first big weapon, then not even use it till I got my armor and gloves as well, so the upkeep of a 10K+ weapon and 6K armor wouldn't be counted against me.
how can it NOT lead to more plate? 30gold per tick + 50 in insurance... thats 80 gold per tick for the sake of maintaining your gear. OK so it's harder to stockpile gold, and thus harder to buy gear... but it is definetly going to make it easier to maintain... say nothing breaks.. you keep your 30 per tick. say everything breaks, well then you were effectively making 80 per tick instead of 30. say a bit breaks and your 'insurance money' covers it, you pocket your 30 per tick. in what way can you possibly have a harder time maintaining expensive gear with such a system?Because insurance would not be affected by a multiplier, that is the defining difference. God fucking damn-it Matey, you're a smart guy and I respect you and your play-style but you're either just not comprehending the mechanics at all or you didn't read the post in its entirety.
This is still going to set up a min armor level before you get screwed. And judging by the armor levels that have been predicted, this is going to lead to armor weight that screws over agility players and people that need wpf one way or the other.I listed a 7 weight build for archers that cost 16K gold. It wouldn't screw over them or any other athletics build. But that's just using MY numbers, that's not an issue with the concept.
but the biggest question I have is... since when is there a problem with leachers?
It isn't really a problem now. It's annoying, but it's not a big deal. The problem will be when strategus comes out, and gold value skyrockets. It's a measure to combat naked peasant gold farming.
ah there is the one key thing i missed. I didnt catch the bit about insurance not being affected by multiplier. that being the case it would only impact sustainable gear at x1 and x2. (even at 30 gold per tick, thats 60 at x2 + the 50 for insurance = 110). Well I still don't see why it would be worth the effort to implement. It would hurt new players for one. I also don't see it making any difference what so ever in terms of people who are wearing dick all gear and leaching. if they are that determined to make as much money as possible, they arent going to bring anything that costs more than 100 gold to repair no matter what.. aka no item worth more than 2000 gold... and probably no more than 2 items of that value. sooo they will still have a shitty wep. crappy armour isnt as big a deal as crappy wep since some builds are designed with light armour in mind.You can't kick/ban someone for wearing peasant gear and running around being all but completely useless, regardless of their level. Autobalance taking them into consideration is only half the problem. It still takes their rank/level into account and someone is still going to have to deal with them being on their team.
but the biggest question I have is... since when is there a problem with leachers? Am I just not playing in the right servers? my understanding of the auto balance is that it takes gear value into account when balancing, as well as player levels and score. There is also the fact that leaching can get people kicked/banned. sooo if they are blatant leaches, they get kicked/banned/QMLed. if they are wearing dick all gear and running around doing nothing useful, then the auto balance doesnt place any value on them, or they get kicked/banned. seeing as there are 1-10 admins on the NA servers pretty much 24/7... I don't see there being much of a problem in removing leachers.
lastly, some reasons this will never happen.
1. it may be impossible.
2. if not impossible, it is likely to take way more effort than it's worth and result in lots of whining from people who are mad they cant stockpile, and new players who have to spend way more time saving up for gear.
3. chadz is not likely to care nearly enough about the idea to dedicate any of his or the dev teams efforts into trying to make it work.
Sorry if you all hate me for pointing that out, and chadz, if I'm wrong, feel free to say so and I'll humbly apologize.
p.s. lol at gumdrawp rating all my posts as negative.
What would be the difference between this idea and just lowering the repair costs all together? If this has been covered (I didn't read the other 2 pages of posts), then refer it to me.Lowering repair costs across the board wouldn't do anything to combat active leeching or gold farming. With the old system you make the most gold for not helping your team and wearing extremely cheap gear, under my system you would make the most gold by actively participating in the round without skimping on equipment.
There is may be something that i don't figure out, but i'm with Matey on this one, because i don't see an interest in this system, it will just low the gain for everybody, leechers will still leech (in better armor but still leech) and farmer will still farm (more and longer but still farm).(1) There will always be afk leechers, that's not who I'm targeting with this as those people can be QML'ed. The leechers I'm talking about are the active leechers/gold farmers. People who are essentially as effective as an afk leecher but are actually not afk at all. They just run around with little to no gear while making loads of gold. These people are more often than not found in siege from my experience.
(1)Leechers will wear better armor, but they will continue to leech as they know that they will not loose any gold.
Farmer will wear same armor as leechers (just what needed to not loose gold) and will farm for less gain, they will have to farm longer.
(2)Everybody else will have less gain.
(3)Agi build will have less interest and will be more difficult to play as everybody wear better armor.
(4)Really i don't see what will change except that this move the armor cursor to higher value and move gold gain to lower value.
It's'just like if you lowered the gain, but this will erase upkeep on low armor, like if you lower upkeep price of everything.
The gold earned would be less but upkeep price would be less too.
I think that merged or even complelty coupled currency systems between cRPG and Strategus will fail.
If one cRPG gold equals k Strat gold, we will have :
- people farming cRPG to get Strat gold.
- people with fiefs/member of big clans in Strat using their gold to upkeep more and buy more heirlooms.
And I think boths are bad things. People that only want to play cRPG should still be competitive in it.
So instead of a basic conversion, what about a different system :
Each tick in cRPG gives you a fixed amount of Strategus gold, with the multiplier applied. You cannot transfer gold between cRPG and Strat, but playing cRPG gives you Strat gold this way. I don't think people should be able to get cRPG advantages by doing things in Strategus at all. But now that I think of it, maybe giving a free and fixed masterwork equipment for holding a town. For example, the owner of Rivacheg would get a +3 Broad one handed axe, and loose it immediatly when he looses the town.
What do you think ?
I listed a 7 weight build for archers that cost 16K gold. It wouldn't screw over them or any other athletics build. But that's just using MY numbers, that's not an issue with the concept.
Katana - 9376
Lameller Vest - 3342
Wisby Gauntlets - 4848
Boots + Helmet - Anywhere from 500g to 5000 depending on your preference.
18066 gold minimum for a heavy athletics build
I posted this in the Strategus economy thread but I feel I should post it here as well.
Everyone hates when you get stuck with high level peasants on your team. While you're using your best and likely most expensive gear, they're using a torch and three plain cavalry shields with no other equipment. So I propose having a sort of "insurance" on your gear where, when it breaks, the insurance would pay for a portion of the upkeep cost.
Here's how I see it working:
1. Every tic of xp/gold that someone got, they would also get a tic of insurance gold.
(This is necessary as each tic increases the chance of something breaking)
2. Insurance gold would be something like a static 40/50 gold per tic and would not be increased by a multiplier.
(If it were affected by a multiplier there would be almost no reason to have upkeep to begin with)
3. Insurance affects everyone equally and the player doesn't have to pay a fee for this service, think of it as the faction you're fighting for is paying a portion of your upkeep cost.
Example 1) If my Bec de Corbin breaks after 4 tics of gold and xp, the normal cost would be 475 gold, insurance covering 50 gold per tic would amount to 200 gold, so you would end up paying 275 gold total, instead of 475.
Example 2) If both my Cased Greaves and my Bec break, 213 and 475 repair cost, after 5 tics you would have 250 insurance gold. This would pay off the greaves and pay the remaining 37 gold toward the next item that broke, which would be the bec. So you would end up paying a total of 438 gold for that round.
What this does specifically, is it completely removes the benefit of running around naked not trying to help your team win and only caring about making gold. Instead players would gain close to the same amount of gold naked, that they would in 15-20K worth of gear.
With this, to maintain close to the same income on average that people who actively participate in rounds with their best(or close to) gear currently have, gold per tic would need to be scaled back slightly to about 30 or 40 per tic from the current 50.
This would greatly affect strategus and keep people from being able to farm gold by running around naked as they currently do. Yes they could still run around naked with only one weapon, but there would be no advantage to it. Currently the best way to make the absolute most gold possible, is to play naked. With my system, this would change to actively participating with medium quality gear, not to be confused with medium weight, as this isn't the case at all.
i DO like the idea, however. it just needs to only work for people wearing armor with a certain price bracket, say 10k Armor (weapon not included). maybe, even price brackets; for 45k plate users, they can make 100 gold insurance instead of 50.
other than that, sounds good.
The Lamellar Vests alone are 9.5 weight. Adding anymore armor weight on top of that will just increase the wpf penalty further. Granted agility builds don't get many kills, but they're good for distracting enemies while clanmembers pike them from the side. You're an attractive target in light armor, and people will foolishly risk their lives to attack you.
Personally, I agree completely with the suggestion mentioned in Kafein's post. Just made a different bank for Strategus. Hell, even make a different name for the currency so people don't associate them. Not only does it solve the problem, it's ridiculously easy to code.
I'm assuming that only players wearing armor would have access to that. and what is the point where you start making insurance money? and if you don't have armor, and just a weapon, it would reward you for not having one... a naked flamberge guy getting repair deductibles... eww...It's passive, with each tic of xp/gold one would also be getting a tic of insurance gold for that round. If the insurance, or buffer gold was not used entirely at the end of that round, the rest would be discarded. Meaning it doesn't carry over to the next round or get added to your actual crpg gold.
i DO like the idea, however. it just needs to only work for people wearing armor with a certain price bracket, say 10k Armor (weapon not included). maybe, even price brackets; for 45k plate users, they can make 100 gold insurance instead of 50.
other than that, sounds good.
Am I the only one who understood what this was about from the beginning? It makes it useless for nude leeching since you can have gear without paying for it, you can't use higher tier armours/weapons that much since the insurance is not high enough and the gold gain is reduced. It's too late for me to write down the maths but I did it in my head and this looks really good. +1 for the suggestion.
No you are not the only one. Matey just wanted to look silly :lol:Well for starters, I don't think merged/coupled currencies are destined to fail, I don't see any reason for this to be the case. I think 1 crpg gold should be 1 strategus gold and vice versa. Everything in Strategus should just be very expensive and to balance that out, gold gained from owning a territory should be massive. If after, say, a month of the new strategus being out, 3/4 of the gold being spent in strategus also comes from strategus, I don't see crpg gold even being an issue to begin with.
Also, what do you think about my suggestion, Tydeus ?