cRPG

cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: Tears of Destiny on July 04, 2011, 03:35:49 am

Title: Traditional shielder VS non-traditional. How much wpf?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on July 04, 2011, 03:35:49 am
Spending time with -cRPG, I have noticed that the basic build is an 18/18 one with a few tweaks for shielders. You can modify from there, add STR for more striking power, or add AGIL for amazing shield stuff, but for the most part a suggested "newbie" build seems to be the following and decently popular(Not that I did it with Fallen_Akilina).

(click to show/hide)

I was wondering though, how much wpf would you need minimum to be a proper shielder? I am of the opinion that for a main weapon you need a bare minimum of 100 wpf, though 0 WM will still grant 111, though obviously you may need more then that.

So, here is one build that I was toying with, whatcha think?

(click to show/hide)

Some people say that wpf is a massively important skill, while others say that it barely effects weapon speed.
What is your take on that subject?

The only weapon that I say absolutely requires wpf are bows and throwing (due to the 14 and 13 wpf per X thingy, as well as that reticule), and crossbows too.
Title: Re: Traditional shielder VS non-traditional. How much wpf?
Post by: Cyclopsided on July 04, 2011, 03:58:11 am
Oh wow that is a sweet build. Except no IF which I don't like too much.

I have 117 wpf in 1h and 105 in pole arms on my 1h shield/Lancer cavalry. I always put 105 since you really only need 100 but I like to wear medium armor. I love it and have no complaints on swing speed, I in fact double-swing people all the time with 100 wpf. Wpf hardly does anything to your swing speed past effective 100 unless you compare it to say, 200+ wpf. 130+ wpf is ideal because then you can rock out heavy armor :P
But WM is in no means necessary on a non-hybrid. I'm toying around with a couple interesting builds that are outside normal stat distributions like 24/18 with 8 PS/6Ath/3 Shield for a 1hander&shield . It would be interesting even if 21-15 is better.
Title: Re: Traditional shielder VS non-traditional. How much wpf?
Post by: El_Infante on July 04, 2011, 04:26:19 am
I think 18/18 is a weak build for a shielder. You have two options:
- Going for an agi shielder. (15/21, 12/24, 9/27)
- Going for a str shielder. (21/15, 24/15)

If you go for a agi shielder.. you're forced to take blunt/pierce weapons. Otherwise, you will glance a lot and will need a lot of hits to kill a armored guy. Str shielders must have a long range weapon, like long eslavona, elite scimitar, scimitar, or knightly/nordic. 140wpf for a shielder is more than enough. Unexperienced shielders shouldn't go for an agi build because you will pay for your mistakes so hard. Agi builds allow a shielder to fight multiple oponents, but lack of hitpoints. 21/15 with 7 ironflesh is the easiest way to start. 5 points in shield skill is enough. Breaking a huscarl is not an easy task. You have to avoid weapons with bonus vs shields.

I think 21/15 with heirloomed gloves/armor is the best build, or at least, the most balanced one. 70 armored hit points let you survive in a battle, and surviving mean that you will make a lot of kills (guaranteed). 24/15 is a awesome build if you know how to play. Just get medium armor and a high dmg/reach 1h weapon.

Another suggestion for shielders. You MUST have an axe as sidearm to fight another shielders. One handed axe is enough (cheap). If your shield is broke, you're dead.
Each player have his own style, but shielders even more that other classes, need powerstrike unless you're going for a steel pick shielder.
Title: Re: Traditional shielder VS non-traditional. How much wpf?
Post by: Digglez on July 04, 2011, 04:47:22 am
WPP also contributes to weapon damage, so unless you are going to be a hybrid, I wouldnt even bother putting points into something else.  You can still shotgun people with xbows at close & medium-close range and pull out a spear/pike to keep horses away.

I've always been a shielder with as much or more AGi than STR.  But I tried a STR heavy build and its just worlds better than any agi or 'balanced' based shield builds.  I live so much longer and get so many more kills its utterly stupid.  AGI is worthless.

With STR I can now 2shot lightly armored (not naked) people and typically no more than 5 hits on a tincan to bring them down...compared to 5-10 with a balanced or agi build.

I'm able to wear heavy armor (20+ lbs) and take tons of hits while still being able to fall back to my shield when I need it.



HOPLITE CAV 1H SHIELDER BUILD
·   Strength: 24
·   Agility: 12
·   Hit points: 75
·   Skills to attributes: 2
·   Ironflesh: 5
·   Power Strike: 8
·   Shield: 4
·   Athletics: 3
·   Riding: 4
·   Horse Archery: 0
·   Power Draw: 0
·   Power Throw: 0
·   Weapon Master: 4
One Handed: 139
Title: Re: Traditional shielder VS non-traditional. How much wpf?
Post by: Cyclopsided on July 04, 2011, 04:59:55 am

HOPLITE CAV 1H SHIELDER BUILD
·   Strength: 24
·   Agility: 12
·   Hit points: 75
·   Skills to attributes: 2
·   Ironflesh: 5
·   Power Strike: 8
·   Shield: 4
·   Athletics: 3
·   Riding: 4
·   Horse Archery: 0
·   Power Draw: 0
·   Power Throw: 0
·   Weapon Master: 4
One Handed: 139
do 4 ath 4 IF, not 3 ath 5 if. You get agility largely for the athletics. that bit of run speed is better than that 2 HP on that build.
Title: Re: Traditional shielder VS non-traditional. How much wpf?
Post by: Mala on July 04, 2011, 05:29:18 am
Spending time with -cRPG, I have noticed that the basic build is an 18/18 one with a few tweaks for shielders. You can modify from there, add STR for more striking power, or add AGIL for amazing shield stuff, but for the most part a suggested "newbie" build seems to be the following and decently popular(Not that I did it with Fallen_Akilina).
...

So, here is one build that I was toying with, whatcha think?

(click to show/hide)

Some people say that wpf is a massively important skill, while others say that it barely effects weapon speed.
What is your take on that subject?

The only weapon that I say absolutely requires wpf are bows and throwing (due to the 14 and 13 wpf per X thingy, as well as that reticule), and crossbows too.
Currently i have a similar build.
After some fun and test builds i came to the conclusion, that i am fast enough with athletics 6 (especially with light amour).
The same with wpf,  after a specific point you have to invest too much for a too small effect.
Title: Re: Traditional shielder VS non-traditional. How much wpf?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on July 04, 2011, 07:05:25 am
For a shielder insisting on wearing heraldric chain (the top one with 42 armor, 13.5 weight I think), and wanting to fight even with transitional on, what wpf would be required? Curious if 6 athletics would be good with transitional, or if 4 or 5 would be better at that point and go for the better PS. A 24/12 or 27/12 build sounds interesting for a pure footman.
Title: Re: Traditional shielder VS non-traditional. How much wpf?
Post by: Vibe on July 04, 2011, 07:43:22 am
139 wpf is way enough in terms of damage and speed, as most of the 1h are lightning fast already anyway. Not sure how 0 IF would work though, I always have some, other than that the build is fine.
Title: Re: Traditional shielder VS non-traditional. How much wpf?
Post by: Cyclopsided on July 04, 2011, 08:48:51 am
For a shielder insisting on wearing heraldric chain (the top one with 42 armor, 13.5 weight I think), and wanting to fight even with transitional on, what wpf would be required? Curious if 6 athletics would be good with transitional, or if 4 or 5 would be better at that point and go for the better PS. A 24/12 or 27/12 build sounds interesting for a pure footman.
you'll need at least 130 wpf for transitional. so, just get the 4 wm of the 12 agi. You can't skip WM if you want heavy armor.


This thread just caused me to make a 27/15 1h Shielder. Oh holy fuck. 9 PS/ 5 Ath/ 3 Shield. Gambseon + Military Cleaver + Kite shield = ??????? insane damage + solid shield + being the same speed as a normal shielder? LOL
why don't people do builds like that more. It was amazingly effective the 5 minutes i played on it with instant 30. Stupidly good.
Title: Re: Traditional shielder VS non-traditional. How much wpf?
Post by: Vibe on July 04, 2011, 09:10:06 am
you'll need at least 130 wpf for transitional. so, just get the 4 wm of the 12 agi. You can't skip WM if you want heavy armor.


This thread just caused me to make a 27/15 1h Shielder. Oh holy fuck. 9 PS/ 5 Ath/ 3 Shield. Gambseon + Military Cleaver + Kite shield = ??????? insane damage + solid shield + being the same speed as a normal shielder? LOL
why don't people do builds like that more. It was amazingly effective the 5 minutes i played on it with instant 30. Stupidly good.

You didn't feel slow at all, or shield braking too fast?
Title: Re: Traditional shielder VS non-traditional. How much wpf?
Post by: Cyclopsided on July 04, 2011, 09:19:39 am
You didn't feel slow at all, or shield braking too fast?
1) 5 athletics is not slow, you can catch any back peddler in melee with 5 athletics unless they have 9+ athletics. In which case, let them run away or lure them to you.
2) Kite shield is very resilient, check it out man. only needs 3 shield skill too. The shield is pretty fast too. You could alternatively use a heater or norman shield.
3) 111 WPF which you get from No weapon master is about the normal amount people put in 1h as a hybrid when being a lancer, and they never have any trouble. You aren't slow at all with your swings with 111 wpf...

Yeah, It is surprisingly good. Anyone who has an instant level 30 should go try it out.
Title: Re: Traditional shielder VS non-traditional. How much wpf?
Post by: Spawny on July 04, 2011, 09:42:48 am
you'll need at least 130 wpf for transitional. so, just get the 4 wm of the 12 agi. You can't skip WM if you want heavy armor.


This thread just caused me to make a 27/15 1h Shielder. Oh holy fuck. 9 PS/ 5 Ath/ 3 Shield. Gambseon + Military Cleaver + Kite shield = ??????? insane damage + solid shield + being the same speed as a normal shielder? LOL
why don't people do builds like that more. It was amazingly effective the 5 minutes i played on it with instant 30. Stupidly good.

It is. Best part being, if you get to level 31 and don't plan on retiring you get 3 more skillpoints.
Kite shield is good, but with 4 shield skill you can use the faster knightly heater shield.

Combine that build with a MW Nieueieweneweewieieidao for 100+ speed and 36 cut damage.
Hell, a scimitar, langes messer, the longer swords. They will all hurt like hell.

I'd advise against using a pick though, they're a bit short. You won't glance with 9 PS anyway.

My personal favourite is still my the trusty 21/15 build with lordly mail (49 defense) and reinforced mail gauntlets (10 defense).
Goldwise, you can upkeep Mail gauntlets, transitional, cased greaves and a great helmet. Pair it with a knightly heater and a 6-7k gold sword and presto. Totals up to 70 defense (same heirlooms on armours if I traded for them) with 70 or so hp. It's just a tad bit too slow imo, it's hard fighting 18/21 2h's with greatswords.
In sieges it's pretty damn powerful though.
Title: Re: Traditional shielder VS non-traditional. How much wpf?
Post by: Cyclopsided on July 04, 2011, 10:00:41 am
I just remade it as 33/9 as soon as i realized that was possible. 11 PS 3 shield 3 ath. Went to duel server, stomped.
Brown heater shield + Scimitar. soooooo good. People complained as I one hit them "ONESHOT WITH A SCIMI? THIS IS STUPID!" - A random balanced build before GTXting.

Don't know how it does in battle though, but it is beast 1 v 1.
Title: Re: Traditional shielder VS non-traditional. How much wpf?
Post by: Spawny on July 04, 2011, 11:13:20 am
I just remade it as 33/9 as soon as i realized that was possible. 11 PS 3 shield 3 ath. Went to duel server, stomped.
Brown heater shield + Scimitar. soooooo good. People complained as I one hit them "ONESHOT WITH A SCIMI? THIS IS STUPID!" - A random balanced build before GTXting.

Don't know how it does in battle though, but it is beast 1 v 1.

Oohhh.... Gonna try that tonight. In light armour, 3 ath is fast enough. I just retired to try xbow for fun so I've been running around with little athletics.


Just made it:
Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)
Strength: 33
Agility: 9
Hit points: 68
Skills to attributes: 14
Ironflesh: 0
Power Strike: 11
Shield: 3
Athletics: 3
Riding: 0
Horse Archery: 0
Power Draw: 0
Power Throw: 0
Weapon Master: 0
One Handed: 113
Two Handed: 1
Polearm: 1
Archery: 1
Crossbow: 1
Throwing: 1

GOD DAMN! That's going to 1 or 2 hit most people.
Title: Re: Traditional shielder VS non-traditional. How much wpf?
Post by: Vibe on July 04, 2011, 01:40:52 pm
Are you certain that 10->11 PS works properly though?
Title: Re: Traditional shielder VS non-traditional. How much wpf?
Post by: Spawny on July 04, 2011, 02:34:38 pm
Are you certain that 10->11 PS works properly though?

Nope.

Was fixed, but some people reported it wasn't working anymore.
Title: Re: Traditional shielder VS non-traditional. How much wpf?
Post by: Bulzur on July 04, 2011, 02:51:37 pm
9 PS is enough, imo. 2 hits most people, while you can have 5 athletics with 3 wm. Love the speed.
Title: Re: Traditional shielder VS non-traditional. How much wpf?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on July 04, 2011, 04:16:46 pm
Are you certain that 10->11 PS works properly though?

Due to a glitch, it was supposed to work up to 15 but it did not, so the devs did a quick fix that has it working again on official EU servers....


So the answer is kinda, until the next patch comes out.

Anywho, I think I shall experiemnt with this for a bit the next time I am bored of my main.

Level 30

Strength: 27
Agility: 12
Hit points: 66
Skills to attributes: 8

Ironflesh: 2
Power Strike: 9
Shield: 4
Athletics: 4
Weapon Master: 4
One Handed: 139

Thank you all for the interesting replies!
Title: Re: Traditional shielder VS non-traditional. How much wpf?
Post by: Spawny on July 05, 2011, 12:12:31 pm
I've been playing with the 33/9 build proposed by marathon and it's... damn powerfull.

Wearing nordic noble man outfit, straw hat and blue hose with a Nieuweueuueueweuidao and a heater shield (the brown one) I got a 2:1 kdratio pretty consistently on both battle and siege servers.
I don't notice a speed difference when fighting others, I don't feel slower than what I'm used to.

I'm saving goldies on my "Skip the fun" character now, so I can try using the build with my standard armour:
Kettle helmet
Heraldic mail with tabard
Mail Gauntlets
Mail Chauses

I wonder how much all that weight will slow me down in both movementspeed and swingspeed.
Title: Re: Traditional shielder VS non-traditional. How much wpf?
Post by: El_Infante on July 05, 2011, 12:37:10 pm
Due to a glitch, it was supposed to work up to 15 but it did not, so the devs did a quick fix that has it working again on official EU servers....


So the answer is kinda, until the next patch comes out.

Anywho, I think I shall experiemnt with this for a bit the next time I am bored of my main.

Level 30

Strength: 27
Agility: 12
Hit points: 66
Skills to attributes: 8

Ironflesh: 2
Power Strike: 9
Shield: 4
Athletics: 4
Weapon Master: 4
One Handed: 139

Thank you all for the interesting replies!


This is my next shielder build. I think Agi 4 is enough for not be a turtle. Tier 4 shields are good shield and it's not much difference from tier 5. Heavy board shield, and norman shields. PS 9 with a MW one handed rocks.
Title: Re: Traditional shielder VS non-traditional. How much wpf?
Post by: karasu on July 05, 2011, 07:34:03 pm
I'm using this build on my shielder alt and I still find it quite Balanced:

    * Strength: 21
    * Agility: 15
    * Hit points: 70
    * Converted: 2
    * Ironflesh: 7
    * Power Strike: 7
    * Shield: 5
    * Athletics: 5
    * Weapon Master: 5
    * One Handed: 148

Using huscarl or knightly kite shield and a Niuweidao or Elit Spamitar with a One Handed Battle Axe for turtle combat.
Don't underestimate the need for athletics.

Cheers.
Title: Re: Traditional shielder VS non-traditional. How much wpf?
Post by: Cyclopsided on July 05, 2011, 10:10:09 pm
I'm using this build on my shielder alt and I still find it quite Balanced:

    * Strength: 21
    * Agility: 15
    * Hit points: 70
    * Converted: 2
    * Ironflesh: 7
    * Power Strike: 7
    * Shield: 5
    * Athletics: 5
    * Weapon Master: 5
    * One Handed: 148

Using huscarl or knightly kite shield and a Niuweidao or Elit Spamitar with a One Handed Battle Axe for turtle combat.
Don't underestimate the need for athletics.

Cheers.
That is the best 1h build In my opinion, I'm just exploring tons of different ways of doing things that are maybe just as effective or more effective for different playstyles.
Title: Re: Traditional shielder VS non-traditional. How much wpf?
Post by: Cyclopsided on July 05, 2011, 10:11:58 pm
I've been playing with the 33/9 build proposed by marathon and it's... damn powerfull.

[....]
I think the 27/15 build is better since you can close on people faster and can't be backpeddled. the 33/9 gets back peddled fairly easily if you chase. If you play smartly with the 33/9 though, hahahahaha oh god. The scimitar/elite scimitar kills just rack up.

*Accidental double post, meant to edit my post above. I can't delete this one or merge them together so lolololol forums.
Title: Re: Traditional shielder VS non-traditional. How much wpf?
Post by: Spawny on July 06, 2011, 12:01:14 pm
I think the 27/15 build is better since you can close on people faster and can't be backpeddled. the 33/9 gets back peddled fairly easily if you chase. If you play smartly with the 33/9 though, hahahahaha oh god. The scimitar/elite scimitar kills just rack up.

*Accidental double post, meant to edit my post above. I can't delete this one or merge them together so lolololol forums.

It requires a different playstyle yes. Gonna try the build with a steel pick as soon as I have enough gold :)
I've tried loads of builds now and it doesn't really matter which build I use, my kd ratios are usually about 2:1 or slightly higher. Some rounds you kill 5-10 people and the next 3 rounds you get shot/lanced/tked without making a kill.
Title: Re: Traditional shielder VS non-traditional. How much wpf?
Post by: Zoidberg on July 07, 2011, 12:45:53 pm
dunno if this is the right place to post but what do you guys think about this build:
Strength    27
Agility    12   

One Handed    125

Skills

Power Strike    9
Shield    4
Athletics 4   
Weapon Master    2
Riding 4
with MW arabian cavalry sword and light armour
Title: Re: Traditional shielder VS non-traditional. How much wpf?
Post by: Spawny on July 07, 2011, 02:50:21 pm
dunno if this is the right place to post but what do you guys think about this build:
Strength    27
Agility    12   

One Handed    125

Skills

Power Strike    9
Shield    4
Athletics 4   
Weapon Master    2
Riding 4
with MW arabian cavalry sword and light armour

You're going to kill the people you hit for sure.
My only worry is that 4 riding will make you easy pickings for every other cav around. Both lancers and HA's usually have 6 riding or even more, which will make them faster and more manouverable.

If you can stay out of trouble though, it could work just fine.

PS
Regarding the 33/9 build with a steel pick: It tears people apart. Best used in sieges though, less space for the enemy to jump around in.
It's just sad that when I did a 33/9 build with a bec de corbin I had more reach and I could 1 hit everything in less than 30 armour and would need 3 hits tops for 60-70 armour.
Title: Re: Traditional shielder VS non-traditional. How much wpf?
Post by: ManOfWar on July 07, 2011, 04:05:53 pm
Im using the 24-15 build atm,

Im level 31 and I have about 3 iron flesh,

Im just gonna keep grinding and gaining IF slowly,


I am not sure if there is a big difference between a ps of 8 and 7