Traditional shielder VS non-traditional. How much wpf?

[Tears of Destiny]

Spending time with -cRPG, I have noticed that the basic build is an 18/18 one with a few tweaks for shielders. You can modify from there, add STR for more striking power, or add AGIL for amazing shield stuff, but for the most part a suggested "newbie" build seems to be the following and decently popular(Not that I did it with Fallen_Akilina).

(click to show/hide)

Level 30

Strength: 18
Agility: 18
Hit points: 63
Skills to attributes: 2

Ironflesh: 5
Power Strike: 6
Shield: 6
Athletics: 6
Weapon Master: 6
One Handed: 156

I was wondering though, how much wpf would you need minimum to be a proper shielder? I am of the opinion that for a main weapon you need a bare minimum of 100 wpf, though 0 WM will still grant 111, though obviously you may need more then that.

So, here is one build that I was toying with, whatcha think?

(click to show/hide)

Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)

Strength: 21
Agility: 18
Hit points: 56
Skills to attributes: 8

Power Strike: 7
Shield: 6
Athletics: 6
Weapon Master: 4
One Handed: 139

Some people say that wpf is a massively important skill, while others say that it barely effects weapon speed.
What is your take on that subject?

The only weapon that I say absolutely requires wpf are bows and throwing (due to the 14 and 13 wpf per X thingy, as well as that reticule), and crossbows too.

[Cyclopsided]

Oh wow that is a sweet build. Except no IF which I don't like too much.

I have 117 wpf in 1h and 105 in pole arms on my 1h shield/Lancer cavalry. I always put 105 since you really only need 100 but I like to wear medium armor. I love it and have no complaints on swing speed, I in fact double-swing people all the time with 100 wpf. Wpf hardly does anything to your swing speed past effective 100 unless you compare it to say, 200+ wpf. 130+ wpf is ideal because then you can rock out heavy armor
But WM is in no means necessary on a non-hybrid. I'm toying around with a couple interesting builds that are outside normal stat distributions like 24/18 with 8 PS/6Ath/3 Shield for a 1hander&shield . It would be interesting even if 21-15 is better.

[El_Infante]

I think 18/18 is a weak build for a shielder. You have two options:
- Going for an agi shielder. (15/21, 12/24, 9/27)
- Going for a str shielder. (21/15, 24/15)

If you go for a agi shielder.. you're forced to take blunt/pierce weapons. Otherwise, you will glance a lot and will need a lot of hits to kill a armored guy. Str shielders must have a long range weapon, like long eslavona, elite scimitar, scimitar, or knightly/nordic. 140wpf for a shielder is more than enough. Unexperienced shielders shouldn't go for an agi build because you will pay for your mistakes so hard. Agi builds allow a shielder to fight multiple oponents, but lack of hitpoints. 21/15 with 7 ironflesh is the easiest way to start. 5 points in shield skill is enough. Breaking a huscarl is not an easy task. You have to avoid weapons with bonus vs shields.

I think 21/15 with heirloomed gloves/armor is the best build, or at least, the most balanced one. 70 armored hit points let you survive in a battle, and surviving mean that you will make a lot of kills (guaranteed). 24/15 is a awesome build if you know how to play. Just get medium armor and a high dmg/reach 1h weapon.

Another suggestion for shielders. You MUST have an axe as sidearm to fight another shielders. One handed axe is enough (cheap). If your shield is broke, you're dead.
Each player have his own style, but shielders even more that other classes, need powerstrike unless you're going for a steel pick shielder.

[Digglez]

WPP also contributes to weapon damage, so unless you are going to be a hybrid, I wouldnt even bother putting points into something else.  You can still shotgun people with xbows at close & medium-close range and pull out a spear/pike to keep horses away.

I've always been a shielder with as much or more AGi than STR.  But I tried a STR heavy build and its just worlds better than any agi or 'balanced' based shield builds.  I live so much longer and get so many more kills its utterly stupid.  AGI is worthless.

With STR I can now 2shot lightly armored (not naked) people and typically no more than 5 hits on a tincan to bring them down...compared to 5-10 with a balanced or agi build.

I'm able to wear heavy armor (20+ lbs) and take tons of hits while still being able to fall back to my shield when I need it.



HOPLITE CAV 1H SHIELDER BUILD
·   Strength: 24
·   Agility: 12
·   Hit points: 75
·   Skills to attributes: 2
·   Ironflesh: 5
·   Power Strike: 8
·   Shield: 4
·   Athletics: 3
·   Riding: 4
·   Horse Archery: 0
·   Power Draw: 0
·   Power Throw: 0
·   Weapon Master: 4
One Handed: 139

[Cyclopsided]

HOPLITE CAV 1H SHIELDER BUILD
·   Strength: 24
·   Agility: 12
·   Hit points: 75
·   Skills to attributes: 2
·   Ironflesh: 5
·   Power Strike: 8
·   Shield: 4
·   Athletics: 3
·   Riding: 4
·   Horse Archery: 0
·   Power Draw: 0
·   Power Throw: 0
·   Weapon Master: 4
One Handed: 139

do 4 ath 4 IF, not 3 ath 5 if. You get agility largely for the athletics. that bit of run speed is better than that 2 HP on that build.

[Mala]

Spending time with -cRPG, I have noticed that the basic build is an 18/18 one with a few tweaks for shielders. You can modify from there, add STR for more striking power, or add AGIL for amazing shield stuff, but for the most part a suggested "newbie" build seems to be the following and decently popular(Not that I did it with Fallen_Akilina).
...

So, here is one build that I was toying with, whatcha think?

(click to show/hide)

Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)

Strength: 21
Agility: 18
Hit points: 56
Skills to attributes: 8

Power Strike: 7
Shield: 6
Athletics: 6
Weapon Master: 4
One Handed: 139

Some people say that wpf is a massively important skill, while others say that it barely effects weapon speed.
What is your take on that subject?

The only weapon that I say absolutely requires wpf are bows and throwing (due to the 14 and 13 wpf per X thingy, as well as that reticule), and crossbows too.

Currently i have a similar build.
After some fun and test builds i came to the conclusion, that i am fast enough with athletics 6 (especially with light amour).
The same with wpf,  after a specific point you have to invest too much for a too small effect.

[Tears of Destiny]

For a shielder insisting on wearing heraldric chain (the top one with 42 armor, 13.5 weight I think), and wanting to fight even with transitional on, what wpf would be required? Curious if 6 athletics would be good with transitional, or if 4 or 5 would be better at that point and go for the better PS. A 24/12 or 27/12 build sounds interesting for a pure footman.

[Vibe]

139 wpf is way enough in terms of damage and speed, as most of the 1h are lightning fast already anyway. Not sure how 0 IF would work though, I always have some, other than that the build is fine.

[Cyclopsided]

For a shielder insisting on wearing heraldric chain (the top one with 42 armor, 13.5 weight I think), and wanting to fight even with transitional on, what wpf would be required? Curious if 6 athletics would be good with transitional, or if 4 or 5 would be better at that point and go for the better PS. A 24/12 or 27/12 build sounds interesting for a pure footman.

you'll need at least 130 wpf for transitional. so, just get the 4 wm of the 12 agi. You can't skip WM if you want heavy armor.


This thread just caused me to make a 27/15 1h Shielder. Oh holy fuck. 9 PS/ 5 Ath/ 3 Shield. Gambseon + Military Cleaver + Kite shield = ??????? insane damage + solid shield + being the same speed as a normal shielder? LOL
why don't people do builds like that more. It was amazingly effective the 5 minutes i played on it with instant 30. Stupidly good.

[Vibe]

you'll need at least 130 wpf for transitional. so, just get the 4 wm of the 12 agi. You can't skip WM if you want heavy armor.


This thread just caused me to make a 27/15 1h Shielder. Oh holy fuck. 9 PS/ 5 Ath/ 3 Shield. Gambseon + Military Cleaver + Kite shield = ??????? insane damage + solid shield + being the same speed as a normal shielder? LOL
why don't people do builds like that more. It was amazingly effective the 5 minutes i played on it with instant 30. Stupidly good.

You didn't feel slow at all, or shield braking too fast?

[Cyclopsided]

You didn't feel slow at all, or shield braking too fast?

1) 5 athletics is not slow, you can catch any back peddler in melee with 5 athletics unless they have 9+ athletics. In which case, let them run away or lure them to you.
2) Kite shield is very resilient, check it out man. only needs 3 shield skill too. The shield is pretty fast too. You could alternatively use a heater or norman shield.
3) 111 WPF which you get from No weapon master is about the normal amount people put in 1h as a hybrid when being a lancer, and they never have any trouble. You aren't slow at all with your swings with 111 wpf...

Yeah, It is surprisingly good. Anyone who has an instant level 30 should go try it out.

[Spawny]

you'll need at least 130 wpf for transitional. so, just get the 4 wm of the 12 agi. You can't skip WM if you want heavy armor.


This thread just caused me to make a 27/15 1h Shielder. Oh holy fuck. 9 PS/ 5 Ath/ 3 Shield. Gambseon + Military Cleaver + Kite shield = ??????? insane damage + solid shield + being the same speed as a normal shielder? LOL
why don't people do builds like that more. It was amazingly effective the 5 minutes i played on it with instant 30. Stupidly good.

It is. Best part being, if you get to level 31 and don't plan on retiring you get 3 more skillpoints.
Kite shield is good, but with 4 shield skill you can use the faster knightly heater shield.

Combine that build with a MW Nieueieweneweewieieidao for 100+ speed and 36 cut damage.
Hell, a scimitar, langes messer, the longer swords. They will all hurt like hell.

I'd advise against using a pick though, they're a bit short. You won't glance with 9 PS anyway.

My personal favourite is still my the trusty 21/15 build with lordly mail (49 defense) and reinforced mail gauntlets (10 defense).
Goldwise, you can upkeep Mail gauntlets, transitional, cased greaves and a great helmet. Pair it with a knightly heater and a 6-7k gold sword and presto. Totals up to 70 defense (same heirlooms on armours if I traded for them) with 70 or so hp. It's just a tad bit too slow imo, it's hard fighting 18/21 2h's with greatswords.
In sieges it's pretty damn powerful though.

[Cyclopsided]

I just remade it as 33/9 as soon as i realized that was possible. 11 PS 3 shield 3 ath. Went to duel server, stomped.
Brown heater shield + Scimitar. soooooo good. People complained as I one hit them "ONESHOT WITH A SCIMI? THIS IS STUPID!" - A random balanced build before GTXting.

Don't know how it does in battle though, but it is beast 1 v 1.

[Spawny]

I just remade it as 33/9 as soon as i realized that was possible. 11 PS 3 shield 3 ath. Went to duel server, stomped.
Brown heater shield + Scimitar. soooooo good. People complained as I one hit them "ONESHOT WITH A SCIMI? THIS IS STUPID!" - A random balanced build before GTXting.

Don't know how it does in battle though, but it is beast 1 v 1.

Oohhh.... Gonna try that tonight. In light armour, 3 ath is fast enough. I just retired to try xbow for fun so I've been running around with little athletics.


Just made it:
Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)
Strength: 33
Agility: 9
Hit points: 68
Skills to attributes: 14
Ironflesh: 0
Power Strike: 11
Shield: 3
Athletics: 3
Riding: 0
Horse Archery: 0
Power Draw: 0
Power Throw: 0
Weapon Master: 0
One Handed: 113
Two Handed: 1
Polearm: 1
Archery: 1
Crossbow: 1
Throwing: 1

GOD DAMN! That's going to 1 or 2 hit most people.

[Vibe]

Are you certain that 10->11 PS works properly though?