cRPG
cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: PieParadox on July 03, 2011, 06:35:48 am
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So how important is shield SPEED? What exactly does it do? What speed is considered "too slow" to duel?
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How fast you can go from an attack to a block, as far as I can see.
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How fast you can go from an attack to a block, as far as I can see.
My testing -at least before the last patch- has proved that to be false. Someone on the regular Taleworlds forums thinks it's a measure of how much it affects your run speed.
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My testing -at least before the last patch- has proved that to be false. Someone on the regular Taleworlds forums thinks it's a measure of how much it affects your run speed.
That kinda makes sense, explains why the Knightly Kite Shield allows me to run much faster then the Huscarl does.
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Knightly Kite shield weighs much less than Huscarl, 3 less. Now 3 doesn't seem like a lot but I think shield weight effects speed much more than an equal amount of armor weight. Same with polearms.
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Shield speed modifies run speed? Doubt it. I have a feeling it's the speed of raising and lowering shield.
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I think that is just an internal variable.
If you before you press the right mouse button your shield is penetrable to meele attacks. Shield speed indicates how long it takes before your shield is ready to block the incomming attack.
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Shield speed modifies run speed? Doubt it. I have a feeling it's the speed of raising and lowering shield.
My testing before the patch showed that shields raised and lowered at the exact same speed. One interesting thing though, your shield raises faster if you have your weapon raised.
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I think that is just an internal variable.
If you before you press the right mouse button your shield is penetrable to meele attacks. Shield speed indicates how long it takes before your shield is ready to block the incomming attack.
I'm pretty sure it's this.
When i'm facing an archer, i like to lower my shield when he just shot my shield, to run faster.
The moment i right click to block, there's a small delay before my shield can actually stop the arrows. This delay depends of the shield speed. That's why sometimes, you're sure you've blocked it, but the arrow still went right through your shield.
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I'm pretty sure it's this.
When i'm facing an archer, i like to lower my shield when he just shot my shield, to run faster.
The moment i right click to block, there's a small delay before my shield can actually stop the arrows. This delay depends of the shield speed. That's why sometimes, you're sure you've blocked it, but the arrow still went right through your shield.
Your shield raises more slowly if you're running, but they still all raise at the same speed. Also, your shield doesn't need to be up to block arrows. It only needs to be facing the archer. That's why when I run past archers I run with them on my left. Their arrows almost always hit my shield.
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Your shield raises more slowly if you're running, but they still all raise at the same speed. Also, your shield doesn't need to be up to block arrows. It only needs to be facing the archer. That's why when I run past archers I run with them on my left. Their arrows almost always hit my shield.
It's because of this "almost" that i like to raise my shield. Who cares about 1 extra second running time, when you can be headshotted. Depends of the archer, ofc, but all these shielders thinking the shield on their side will still stop arrows thanks to forcefield are really taking risks.
What is funny though, is how forcefield (wich is suppose to represent the shielders awareness, to move a bit his shield in the right direction) still works on cav who have just been dismounted. Awesome shield.^^
Back to topic, they raise at the same speed, alright, but that's because it's the same animation. What i'm speaking about is a sort of delay of "im protected" AFTER the shield animation is finished, or in process. And that depends on the shield skill.
Anyway, as an archer or shielder, i'll be delighted to help see what this shield speed is, in a duel server or whatever. It really doesn't seem that important if rustyspoon is right. :S
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It's because of this "almost" that i like to raise my shield. Who cares about 1 extra second running time, when you can be headshotted. Depends of the archer, ofc, but all these shielders thinking the shield on their side will still stop arrows thanks to forcefield are really taking risks.
What is funny though, is how forcefield (wich is suppose to represent the shielders awareness, to move a bit his shield in the right direction) still works on cav who have just been dismounted. Awesome shield.^^
Back to topic, they raise at the same speed, alright, but that's because it's the same animation. What i'm speaking about is a sort of delay of "im protected" AFTER the shield animation is finished, or in process. And that depends on the shield skill.
Anyway, as an archer or shielder, i'll be delighted to help see what this shield speed is, in a duel server or whatever. It really doesn't seem that important if rustyspoon is right. :S
That's the whole problem, that it's impossible to test.
I honestly don't care one way or another, I would just like to know. If shield speed actually did anything worthwhile, I would switch to a knightly heater in a second.
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Maybe only the shield raising animation speed is unaffected, but the time to when the shields actually block arrows/attacks is affected.
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Maybe only the shield raising animation speed is unaffected, but the time to when the shields actually block arrows/attacks is affected.
It's certainly possible, but I haven't noticed it in practice. Even using slower shields I've never had an attack go through my shield or anything.
My reasoning for it not being the case is actually Native. Since this game is based on Native and I bet the mechanic itself is hard-coded. Since in native everything is supposed to be "balanced" they wouldn't want certain shields raising and lowering before others did. If that was the case, using something like a Heavy Board Shield would be pointless. I just wish we knew just how this mechanic worked. : /
I actually asked the devs that question in the Q&A, but it didn't get submitted 'cause no one else asked any item-based questions. XD
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I have made some running tests with shields of the same weight but different shield speed and there was no difference in running speed.
And no surprise i was faster with a lighter shield, if i have made the same tests with it.
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That's the whole problem, that it's impossible to test.
Use a slow shield like steel/plate covered then try a fast one like knightly heater, you will notice the slow ones get you killed alot because you cant bring them up in time, especially if you are tap blocking.
Speed of the shield determines your type of playstyle. Do you quickly counter attack using a fast shield or turtle up and wait for enemy to make a mistake and start 1h spamming them.
Also I wouldnt recommend using a slow weapon with a slow shield, it leaves you too open for counterattacks.
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Use a slow shield like steel/plate covered then try a fast one like knightly heater, you will notice the slow ones get you killed alot because you cant bring them up in time, especially if you are tap blocking.
Speed of the shield determines your type of playstyle. Do you quickly counter attack using a fast shield or turtle up and wait for enemy to make a mistake and start 1h spamming them.
Also I wouldnt recommend using a slow weapon with a slow shield, it leaves you too open for counterattacks.
Honestly never had a problem bringing a shield up fast enough even with a heavy board shield. My testing before the last patch had them all coming up in exactly the same amount of time.
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Honestly never had a problem bringing a shield up fast enough even with a heavy board shield. My testing before the last patch had them all coming up in exactly the same amount of time.
just like the other posters said, even if you looks 'up' doesnt mean its going to block.
try out a steel shield and get back to us
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When I was still pole a lot of my attacks just went through the enemy shield. IIRC mostly on slower shields.
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Yes, speed rating affects how soon a raised shield can block melee hits.
Easy test: set a shield speed rating to 1, watch how melee hits go straight through it even if it looks fully raised.
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When I was using a huscarl, I was getting annoyed of getting hit, especially when attempting to twitch block.
It may only be a few frames faster, but the high speed shields are somewhat noticeable for me.
So if I get this right, the animation to bring up the block looks identical, but whether it's actually blocking or not is determined by the shield speed?
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Anyway, even with a fast shield i still have a lot of "what the hell i have blocked this" moments.
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So if I get this right, the animation to bring up the block looks identical, but whether it's actually blocking or not is determined by the shield speed?
Yes.
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Yes, speed rating affects how soon a raised shield can block melee hits.
Easy test: set a shield speed rating to 1, watch how melee hits go straight through it even if it looks fully raised.
Finally a good answer on this. I'm guessing that like weapon speed, the difference in shield speed is just milliseconds. So, in practice the difference shouldn't be that noticeable especially with a decent shield skill.
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Shield speed affects the "raising the shield" animation speed. That's a fact.
Don't know if it comes into account on the formulas regarding the speed of recovery from shield stun (which weight and height(:rolleyes:) are know for actually affecting it).
Cheers.
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Shield speed affects the "raising the shield" animation speed. That's a fact.
Don't know if it comes into account on the formulas regarding the speed of recovery from shield stun (which weight and height(:rolleyes:) are know for actually affecting it).
Cheers.
It doesn't affect the animation speed. However, it DOES affect the amount of time needed after you hit the block button to actually block. See above.
So, a 100 speed shield blocks pretty much instantaneously even if it isn't actually up. Slower shields may not block even IF they are all the way up.
Just tested it by modifying the shield speed values. I was pretty excited to finally have an answer on this.
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If shield and weapon speeds are the same, does one feint as fast as without shield?
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If shield and weapon speeds are the same, does one feint as fast as without shield?
Having a shield or not has no effect on feinting whatsoever since you're not actually blocking when you feint. If you notice, your shield also moves faster when your weapon is raised. It again doesn't have any blocking effect, I think it's just to smooth out the animations.
So, whenever you begin to "attack" you automatically go into the attack animation and your shield instantly drops. So, with or without a shield you feint at the same speed.
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I know shield speed affects how fast you raise the shield (and are "covered" when you raise the shield).
Does it also effect how fast your melee weapon swings when you have the shield equipped in your off hand? I was told it does, but nobody has addressed that in this thread.
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I don't think so. There are even vids somewhere that show that shields don't affect swing speed in general.
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yeah I have never noticed any difference with or without a shield regarding swing speed. I think it's just placebo effect that people think you swing faster with your shield on your back.
The benefit to taking the shield off and blocking manually is:
-manual block is immediate unlike shields (dependent on shield speed). If you are dueling and a good manual blocker this might be preferable
-you can block after a failed kick, whereas you have a brief period of vulnerability if you miss a kick as a shielder
New question that I've wondered about: Does shield skill > 100 have any effect? I'm guessing the answer is no, but I've seen that loomed shields can sometimes go over 100 and I was unsure if that has any use.
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New question that I've wondered about: Does shield skill > 100 have any effect? I'm guessing the answer is no, but I've seen that loomed shields can sometimes go over 100 and I was unsure if that has any use.
My guess is no. WAY back when I was testing shield speeds by editing the in-game values it wouldn't even run if you put a shield speed over 100. My guess is that 100 speed = manual block speed.
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I did a couple gens with a +3 Heavy Round Shield (87 speed), then switched to a Brown Lion Heater (96 speed, mine is +2 now, so 98 speed).
The difference, as far as I can tell, is that with the 87 speed shield, if I fall for a feint, I can't recover fast enough to block. Whereas with the 98 speed shield, if I fall for a feint and drop my block, it's no big deal, I just block again before they hit me.
The devs should add more shields in the 94-96 speed range (like the Brown Lion). They loom into being near max speed, but don't pay a hitpoint premium for their speed like the Knightly/Elite Cav.
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Maybe only the shield raising animation speed is unaffected, but the time to when the shields actually block arrows/attacks is affected.
proof?
Meh... works in my mind, works pragmatically... Board sheild is slow as fuck and i can never block. I like to block right when the swing is coming, rather than RMB my life away...
I noticed, very easily, that the faster shields are faster to block.
Dont think the animation is effected, but the time at which u can block..
Similar to my idea about WPF and swing animations... Dont think WPF increase the number of swings you can do in x time too much, but it does increase the "Speed" of the swinging... like the blade through the air... not the rate at which you can attack again.