cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Spa_geh_tea on June 24, 2011, 12:50:22 am

Title: Egyptian Sickle Sword?
Post by: Spa_geh_tea on June 24, 2011, 12:50:22 am
yeah?

100 speed
32 cut
20 pierce
70 length
8 difficulty

thrust is like the polearm thrust with shield
Title: Re: Egyptian Sickle Sword?
Post by: Spa_geh_tea on June 24, 2011, 01:04:21 am
bump this is too awesome, people comment with thumbs up!
Title: Re: Egyptian Sickle Sword?
Post by: Seawied on June 24, 2011, 02:52:12 am
Cut damage is a bit high... especially for a difficulty 8 weapon Sickle swords were weeded out from history for a reason  :?
Title: Re: Egyptian Sickle Sword?
Post by: Wildling on June 24, 2011, 04:06:37 am
You mean the Kopesh. A perfect weapon imo, good for slashing and thrusting.
Title: Re: Egyptian Sickle Sword?
Post by: Sammael on June 24, 2011, 05:11:59 am
Cut damage is a bit high... especially for a difficulty 8 weapon Sickle swords were weeded out from history for a reason  :?

Balance wise 32 cut isn't too bad. Compared to other short weapons, such as the Italian Falchion, it is reasonable
Title: Re: Egyptian Sickle Sword?
Post by: Digglez on June 24, 2011, 05:13:31 am
no reason to add this in before roman/greek armors.

and a khopesh is one of the lighter swords, so it wouldnt be anywhere near the top dmg 1h'ers.

and you're smoking crack if you think it does pierce dmg.  You cant stab with a sword thats got a rounded end.  its a backwards sabre and cuts like a razor, not an axe...meaning its quick and light dmg.  Like a super light version of the Niuweidao

these are much better stats

105 speed
27 cut
60 length
7 difficulty
Title: Re: Egyptian Sickle Sword?
Post by: Seawied on June 24, 2011, 05:21:49 am
105 speed would make it spammable. No weapon should have that high speed.
Title: Re: Egyptian Sickle Sword?
Post by: Digglez on June 24, 2011, 06:50:25 am
105 speed would make it spammable. No weapon should have that high speed.

it would also glance off heavy armor. its designed to kill unarmored opponents. it'd only be .5 - .75 weight.
Title: Re: Egyptian Sickle Sword?
Post by: Seawied on June 24, 2011, 09:06:48 am
You can still stun with 27c quite easily. Speed of 105 would be a very bad idea. I say 99 tops.
Title: Re: Egyptian Sickle Sword?
Post by: Digglez on June 24, 2011, 10:29:44 am
You can still stun with 27c quite easily. Speed of 105 would be a very bad idea. I say 99 tops.

Khopesh is as light and shorter than a short sword

Quote
Short Sword
weapon length: 81
weight: 1
difficulty: 6
speed rating: 102
weapon length: 81
thrust damage: 24 pierce
swing damage: 26 cut
slots: 1

It should be faster than a shortsword, because its shorter.  103-104 speed.
Title: Re: Egyptian Sickle Sword?
Post by: MountedRhader on June 24, 2011, 12:01:52 pm
no reason to add this in before roman/greek armors.

and a khopesh is one of the lighter swords, so it wouldnt be anywhere near the top dmg 1h'ers.

and you're smoking crack if you think it does pierce dmg.  You cant stab with a sword thats got a rounded end.  its a backwards sabre and cuts like a razor, not an axe...meaning its quick and light dmg.  Like a super light version of the Niuweidao

these are much better stats

105 speed
27 cut
60 length
7 difficulty
I believe there were many variations of the Kopesh sword:
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Also I think there might be a model out there already.
Title: Re: Egyptian Sickle Sword?
Post by: Elmetiacos on June 24, 2011, 12:29:02 pm
The xpš of the Egyptian Old Kingdom was a great big heavy thing made of bronze. There's a frieze with a load of soldiers armed with them, but I can't find it online. It isn't the same thing as the Greek kopis, which was a short, curved cutting sword.
Title: Re: Egyptian Sickle Sword?
Post by: Diomedes on June 24, 2011, 05:41:05 pm
This looks cool.  For ease of implementation I'd go with:

100 speed
77 length
30 cut
21 pierce
1 slot

It would be a good weapon, for sure, but mainly just a more versatile take on the military sickle.  It would not be a horseman's weapon, or an anti-armour weapon, but it would take down medium armour folk effectively.  It may also work well for archers as an off-hand weapon because its speed is so nice.
Title: Re: Egyptian Sickle Sword?
Post by: IR_Kuoin on June 24, 2011, 05:42:13 pm
yeah?

100 speed
32 cut
20 pierce
70 length
8 difficulty

thrust is like the polearm thrust with shield

Why make your own sword that is OP and req. 8 str?!
Title: Re: Egyptian Sickle Sword?
Post by: Erathsmus on June 24, 2011, 09:01:35 pm
Alright, I guess our only solution to this speed problem, is test the egytian sickle sword, and a katana in rl. I recommend that we go to a retirement home, and say that thereare young people outside protesting medicare. Whichever weapon takes out the most coffin dodgers is deemed with the higher speed rating.

Edit: Nvm that is illegal. Come up with something similair.
Title: Re: Egyptian Sickle Sword?
Post by: Spa_geh_tea on June 25, 2011, 03:59:04 am
First of all......OP compared to what? Its ridiculously short, and last time i checked polearms and twohanders have weapons that are equaly fast three times the length and do on average 10 points of damage more......so piss off

also this is the sword i was thinking of, which is perfectly capable of a nasty thrust using the polearm thrust animation.

I believe there were many variations of the Kopesh sword:
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Also I think there might be a model out there already:
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


Title: Re: Egyptian Sickle Sword?
Post by: Huey Newton on June 25, 2011, 04:29:53 am
I think its a good idea as long as the model doesn't have the same ghost reach problem the rest of the curved weapons do in this game. Otherwise that 70 length could actually be 75ish without people evne knowing. And with that speed and damage, a masterwork one would become the next trendy weapon
Title: Re: Egyptian Sickle Sword?
Post by: zagibu on June 25, 2011, 12:46:42 pm
This thread is worthless without a model and textures.
Title: Re: Egyptian Sickle Sword?
Post by: MountedRhader on June 25, 2011, 12:49:19 pm
This thread is worthless without a model and textures.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

???
Title: Re: Egyptian Sickle Sword?
Post by: Chaos on June 25, 2011, 02:42:16 pm
Sounds like a shorter, faster, spammier spammitar. Won't be too much of a problem overall methinks if the weapon is iinternally balanced in the 1h section. And model looks so damn cool, I can't not support this
Title: Re: Egyptian Sickle Sword?
Post by: Armbrust_Schtze on June 25, 2011, 07:46:29 pm
lol that thing would be pretty OP ...and guys dont forget: you need a model to implement it ;)

u cant just demand from the devs to model knew swords for you, they have enough to do with balancing n stuff ya knoow?
Title: Re: Egyptian Sickle Sword?
Post by: Armbrust_Schtze on June 25, 2011, 07:47:43 pm
oh there is a model posted already sorry im little..umm lets say 'drunk'. well the model isnt that good what do you guys think?
Title: Re: Egyptian Sickle Sword?
Post by: Erathsmus on June 25, 2011, 08:46:47 pm
+1 I enjoy variety in the game, and like to see unique content. Most low length 1hander swords do not have any balancing problems, so I see no harm done from implementing it.

A quick question as well, would this weapon have an X feature?
Title: Re: Egyptian Sickle Sword?
Post by: Huey Newton on June 25, 2011, 09:20:30 pm
ya'know just a thought, but wouldnt it make sense for this particular sword to do cut damage on the thrust. The tip obv isn't designed to penetrate anything, and I think the stab would deal cut damage more than pertruding damage. Though I may be wrong
Title: Re: Egyptian Sickle Sword?
Post by: Diomedes on June 25, 2011, 09:40:34 pm
I'd be up for Huey's suggestion.  It would certainly relegate the weapon to anti-light armour tactics but it'd be pretty good for its niche.  Also, DashingRogue, nice model  :D

lol that thing would be pretty OP ...and guys dont forget: you need a model to implement it ;)

u cant just demand from the devs to model knew swords for you, they have enough to do with balancing n stuff ya knoow?

Stop being useless.  If you're going to claim that something is OP you need to give a solid argument for it - not an emoticon.  The weapon would be weak against armour, not very practical from horseback, and would not have invisible reach.  I don't see why it would be OP.

Question for the thread:  If the price were significantly increased (10k?) could the weapon be made into a feasible 0 slot weapon?  This would 1) make it the primary archer off-hand weapon 2) provide a much-needed gold sink for bowmen 3) give archers a more practical off-hand weapon while still keeping them vulnerable to cav/armoured folks.
Title: Re: Egyptian Sickle Sword?
Post by: Erathsmus on June 25, 2011, 10:55:04 pm
Diomedes "Stop being useless."

Best thing I heard all day. +1 4u

But yah, main two questions I want to see answered. Will it have an x function? (Diomedes)-How many slots will it use?
Title: Re: Egyptian Sickle Sword?
Post by: Rhygar666 on June 25, 2011, 10:57:10 pm
Question for the thread:  If the price were significantly increased (10k?) could the weapon be made into a feasible 0 slot weapon?  This would 1) make it the primary archer off-hand weapon 2) provide a much-needed gold sink for bowmen 3) give archers a more practical off-hand weapon while still keeping them vulnerable to cav/armoured folks.
luuulz
as 0 slot

with these stats:

100 speed
77 length
30 cut
21 pierce

and your telling others to stop being useless? its op so fucking op i wont discuss it with you.
Title: Re: Egyptian Sickle Sword?
Post by: Diomedes on June 26, 2011, 03:29:04 am
luuulz
as 0 slot

with these stats:

100 speed
77 length
30 cut
21 pierce

and your telling others to stop being useless? its op so fucking op i wont discuss it with you.

Thanks for the argument.  Here's my devil's advocate:

(click to show/hide)

As I said I'm playing devil's advocate here.  I'm new to slot mechanics, as I mostly play with a simple 1h+shield build, so I'm open to all non-useless discussions on the issue of the ESS being a 0 slot weapon.
Title: Re: Egyptian Sickle Sword?
Post by: Rhygar666 on June 26, 2011, 08:10:32 am
.
i dont quote your whole post cuz its just pointless.
well, compare it to the other 0slot items you get about 18-21 damage, blunt or cut doesnt matter, you want another 0slot weapon with about 30 cut, thats about 8-10 damage more and dont call it op, then you look at the other 0 slot weapons lenght, its a long dagger and hammer with an maximum of 55 reach and you want a weapon with 77 and dont call i op. you can talk it as good as you want its still fucking op and wont be implented like this if you want it as 0 slot weapon, then reduce the stats you want dramatically like:

96 Speed
70 Length
20 Cut
18 Pierce

or something like this. and even then its OP Compared to other 0 Slot weapons, just forget that 0slot thing, it fucks this weapon up anyway...
and we dont need an OP archer weapon, the slot system is there so archer cant equip a flamberge and wreak havoc, if you want meelee you gotta take less arrows or a weaker bow.
Title: Re: Egyptian Sickle Sword?
Post by: MountedRhader on June 26, 2011, 05:46:31 pm
This weapon is large enough to be considered a 1 slot weapon. The average kopesh was 20 to 24 inches, and is equal or just a few inches away from the size of an average medieval shortsword, which takes up 1 slot in itself.
Title: Re: Egyptian Sickle Sword?
Post by: Diomedes on June 26, 2011, 06:03:24 pm
Quote
well, compare it to the other 0slot items you get about 18-21 damage, blunt or cut doesnt matter,

Against medium armour (45) the ESS (using an average archer build of 18 STR, 6 PS, and 1 1h wpf) deals an average of 10.5 damage.  Against heavy armour (60) it deals an average of 6 damage.  These are exactly the same average damages that the hammer deals in the same circumstances.  As I already said, against heavy armour the ESS would not be very strong, especially considering the hammer has knockdown and the ESS does not.

Quote
then you look at the other 0 slot weapons lenght, its a long dagger and hammer with an maximum of 55 reach and you want a weapon with 77 and dont call i op
Quote
or something like this. and even then its OP Compared to other 0 Slot weapons, just forget that 0slot thing
Weapons can be overpowered relative to their niche within a class, to the class in general, or to all weapons generally.  The ESS would have the best weapon stats of all the 0 slot weapons.  It would not, though, have very good stats compared to many other 1h weapons, and it would certainly not have very good stats compared to all other weapons taken as a whole.  The main condition for a weapon being among the best of a niche group is that it be really expensive, like the Plated Charger is for heavy cavalry or like the flamberge is for 2handers.  The ESS fits these criteria exactly.

the slot system is there so archer cant equip a flamberge and wreak havoc, if you want meelee you gotta take less arrows or a weaker bow.
The Egyptian Sickle Sword is far from being a flamberge.  To be effective the archer would (1) need to put points into PS, whereas the hammer doesn't need PS to knockdown (2) spend more money since the ESS is really bloody expensive... so I guess it's like the flamberge in that respect (3) use exceptional tactics since the ESS can't take down horses, the main hunters of archers, with even nearly the same ease as the flamberge.  The point of 0 slot weapons is to encourage archers not to run away and to make a more distinct and balanced class of "dedicated archer."  Strong at range, quick on foot, and weak in melee.  This is a far more balanced and sensible than strong at range, quick on foot, and helpless in melee.

This weapon is large enough to be considered a 1 slot weapon. The average kopesh was 20 to 24 inches, and is equal or just a few inches away from the size of an average medieval shortsword, which takes up 1 slot in itself.
That's interesting, and I hadn't thought of that.  When considering this do you think we should be looking at weight or size more?  The longest 0 slot weapon is 63 length and 1 weight and knockdown.  If the ESS were 0.3-0.5 weight, 75ish length, and had no knockdown would it balance?  As I said I'm new to the whole slot balancing system  :)
Title: Re: Egyptian Sickle Sword?
Post by: Rogue_Eagle on June 27, 2011, 08:24:37 am
+1 for kopesh. I'm thinking it should be like the agi sword of choice.

Maybe make it light enough for massive stun if it gets hit by another weapon while blocking so it encourages avoiding hits rather than blocking style of play.
Title: Re: Egyptian Sickle Sword?
Post by: Spa_geh_tea on June 28, 2011, 03:26:28 am
Please stop changing the stats from the original posted. I took careful consideration in the values depicted in order to create a solid fast and short uppermid tier cut weapon. It is far from OP considering the calibur of other sword in its class. I'm comparing to the nieudao, scottish, broad short sword, italian falcion, and gross messer to develop these numbers. If you want we can up difficulty to 9 which is comparable to all these swords. Compare the stats I gave to the sword listed and then come back and bitch with solid data.

Eqyptian Kopesh
100 speed
70length
32 cut
20 pierce
9 diff

Italian falcion
101speed
70length
34 cut
19 pierce
11 diff

If anything at all I should improve the Kopesh stats if were going to throw it into such a higher tier.
100 speed
77 length
33 cut
22 pierce
11 diff
Title: Re: Egyptian Sickle Sword?
Post by: Socrates on June 28, 2011, 11:01:27 am
Saw a documentary on this weapon, nasty stuff. +1 for it. Only if the shield dismantling was implemented with this weapon hehe.