cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: KaMiKaZe_JoE on June 09, 2011, 11:47:53 pm
-
This part of the forum is for discussing/bitching a bout various aspects of cRPG. Let us consider the subject of horsies...
As things stand, cavalry in cRPG is rather balanced when compared to the other playing styles. Within the framework of the game, it works--no more, no less. My reason for prompting this discussion is that, I feel, the current way in which horses work is not the best way. Or rather, since "best" is so relative a term, I might say that "there is a better way of doing things". I am not arguing for the sake of perfection, or for change for its own sake, for despite the fact that cavalry is balanced within the context of cRPG, the way in which this balance comes about is rather fucked up.
The most effective horses in cRPG--the ones you see the high-scoring (see, me) players use--are the fastest or the most maneuverable horses. The best cav players generally use speed, suprise, and a lance longer than their ensmy's primary weapon to get kills. The long lance's effectiveness is increased by high maneuverability, which allows skillful cavalrymen to trot just out of reach, and strike with perfect timing, indeed, I find that I can even feint using my horse. The longer lance also allows the cavalry player to strike sooner than if he was using a shorter lance, thus decreasing the likelihood of bieng heard/detected by a small margine. Alas, to balance this ninja-ness out, these faster horses also have low HP, charge, and armor.
The horses with lots of HP and armor, on the other hand, are so costly that using them is very, very silly, and they kinda suck anyway. Why use a tank-horse that's ludicrously expensive when I can use a rocket-horse that's more effective? These tank horses also aren't particularly survivable, despite the fact that they appear to be made out of metal. My experience with high-tier horses is limited to those I can steal ingame, however I notice that though they are resistant to arrows, melee players (particularly two-handers) slice through their armor without too much trouble. It takes a few hits, yes, but when a horse is unable to move because a man weighing a whopping 180 pounds is standing infront of it, the surrounding infantry have little trouble hitting home.
I think something is wrong with this.
I very much dislike having to use speed and suprise to kill my enemies, stabbing them in the back without them even HEARING ME. I also dislike having to resort to expensive metal horses in order to close with and kill my virtual enemies fair and square (or try to, given their softness). I dislike the idea that the best horsemen use the heavy lance, ride the courser, and have to fight like absolute pussies. I dislike not being able to charge into the flank of an enemy gaggle-fuck with my comrades in arms and cut bitches. I also really (really) dislike my horse dieing in three or four arrow hits--perhaps alot "realistically", but not in the world of cRPG.
I has a suggestion in mind to fix this, but I lets discussion happen first. Please avoid realism arguements. Please avoid derpin' and a-herpin'.
-
I do just fine with a rouncey or my champion destrier using 1h, but its a completely different type of play though...its close infantry support. I'm like an A10 Warthog of cav players, providing cover and bombing runs on enemies close my ground'n'pounders. I steer clear of enemy cav (pretty easy to avoid up to 3 enemy lancers if you are aware) but will capitalize on mistakes they make (running into walls or getting reared).
So many bad infantry like Gorath PxC who would rather 1v1 duel enemies than to let friendly cav give the enemy a bump or distract them so you get a free kill. There are also oblivious infantry that run in circles around enemies so I end up bumping them and getting them killed instead of the enemy...or they move right into my in progress swing.
You'd see alot more armor horses if shit like loljumpslash was taken out of the game, so a legitimate overhead or pike thrust was how you killed enemy cav RIDERS that got in close.
-
So true Digglez.
-
i'd say it depends on your playstyle... like backstabbing enemies? get a courser.
Like to be able to kill players who are aware of your presence and do good in cav vs cav.? get arabian warhorse
Want to bump, stay cose to enemies and be good infantry support? get a heavy horse
-
The horses in game are too weak. They should have higher armor and/or hps.
No, I don't play cav.
-
I bloody well agree with the loljumpslashing. It looks so unrealistic..
I also support a buff for the higher tier armored horses, but not the Pcharger. The cav that do play are light lancers going with the nomad or saranid style. I just wish I saw more heavy knights on real warhorses.
+1 for you
-
I bloody well agree with the loljumpslashing. It looks so unrealistic..
I also support a buff for the higher tier armored horses, but not the Pcharger. The cav that do play are light lancers going with the nomad or saranid style. I just wish I saw more heavy knights on real warhorses.
+1 for you
then you would need to remove upkeep... back in the pre-upkeep days, people complained that ONLY heavy hroses were used... the devs fixed that, now they get complaints about the exact opposite :o
-
then you would need to remove upkeep... back in the pre-upkeep days, people complained that ONLY heavy hroses were used... the devs fixed that, now they get complaints about the exact opposite :o
I - No one wants everyone running around on elephants. I just want a buff to heavier horses that were completely destroyed by the devs.
-
TBH Cav is the strongest class ingame and if i wanted too i could print screenshots all day long proving that the top tiers on the scoreboard are mostly always cav players on their Formula 1 loomed race courser or Arab warhorse.
I use the Arabian Warhorse myself and i find it way too easy to score kills with it simply because it has such and insane manoeuvre and mine is not even loomed.
If anything should be done to horses it should be a nerf to the Arabian Warhorse and Desert Horse and Steppe horse the manoeuvre is so high that it simply takes the fun out in goin up against infantry with your heavy lance they don't stand a chance once you gotten used to just slightly turn to the left of the poor sob on the ground and finish your death poke it gets old fast atleast for me thats why i gone back to playing with my main.
Offcourse this is also the reason why everyone use only the courser and arab warhorse using Armored horses means you be broke in sec or dehorsed by the 1004324 player with hes loomed courser...
The only infantry you have to fear is the pikemen that's bout it and most of the current pikemen on the ground are more busy with thrusting trough teammates for ninja kills and hunting 2h/pole users busy in figthen.
Digglez thats a nice way to play cav your kind is rare :wink:
I always wait 1-2 min for everyone to be busy fighten and then go in like the vulture i am and go on rampage.. KDR whoring like most other vulture cav out there. :lol:
I - No one wants everyone running around on elephants. I just want a buff to heavier horses that were completely destroyed by the devs.
Thats upkeep and you can simply get way more kills on a fast courser or arab warhorse they arent rly that weak as every cav lobbyist claim they are..
-
yeah horses does pretty fast
-
yeah horses does pretty fast
Are you mocking him? First, the poor guy's horse dies too fast and then you get on the forums and bloody well mock him.... well, i never
Next thing you know you will be beating his dead horse with an irony stick.
-
i loath the fast "horses" i ride the Destrier(x1) and a champion charger named hank, my destriers names lyla btw. i find i do quite well on my "slow" tank horses, i often run down rouncys on hank, and kill and or maim them. As for those fast horses, its more the fact of not being aware they are there, we need to increase the sound of horses, at least the fast ass ones need to, hanks quite as a mouse.
-
It's funny how everyone screams 'nerf sarranid' while 70% of cav rides champ courser...
Anyways, buffing amored horses would hardly help as cav players, who play shitloads of upkeep all the time, would have to pay an even bigger shitload of upkeep for the armored horse - and they simply cant afford it.
-
So perhaps decrease tank-horse upkeep. Certainly make horses louder, if possible. Perhaps nerf the faster horses' maneuverability. Need to boost armor/hp to compensate (charge?).
Several complaints regarding 'loljumpslash'.
-
It is common knowledge that tank horses are underused. Yes, everyone uses a courser (or arabian) these days, I amongst them. And I have to agree with OP completely.
Chasing backstabs and easy kills like the worst pussy in the world is getting boring.
Also K/D doesn't say shit. It's usually lancers topping the boards, but it's not because cavalry is OP, but because people haven't learned to watch their backs.
Hell, I'd rather have less kills and a better armored horse to survive longer and help my team (with same upkeep), rather than lurking around for afk people and then getting my horse 2 shotted.
-
Yep it's kinda sad only light cavalry is viable in cRPG.
-
but it's not because cavalry is OP, but because people haven't learned to watch their backs.
Yea, just like when you kill someone in melee if only he had learn to block better and have better timing, in fact everything is balanced it's just people refusing to learn , duh !!! :mrgreen:
-
Learning to block properly and watching your back is a completely different thing.
-
So perhaps decrease tank-horse upkeep. Certainly make horses louder, if possible. Perhaps nerf the faster horses' maneuverability. Need to boost armor/hp to compensate (charge?).
Several complaints regarding 'loljumpslash'.
All of this. As it stands the "loljumpslashing" is nearly the only mean of defense against "lolracecarlancers", and it has still a very poor chance of success.
Also K/D doesn't say shit. It's usually lancers topping the boards, but it's not because cavalry is OP, but because people haven't learned to watch their backs.
I agree with what you said, but this is a bit like saying "those people should learn to avoid all arrows without a shield or to block three attack directions at the same time". Cav has the power of hitting exactly when their enemies are occupied, so the claim that people should learn to block it has little sense.
I'm also concerned about the state of internal cav balance. God, even BlueGreen was corrupted by those lancers and stopped doing 1h cav. It's both harder and more gold consuming (you need an expensive weapon, a better armor and ofc. a heavier horsie) to get the same effectiveness. Furthermore, 1h = defenseless against lancers. Only very good cav players can play that half-successfully.
-
So perhaps decrease tank-horse upkeep. Certainly make horses louder, if possible. Perhaps nerf the faster horses' maneuverability. Need to boost armor/hp to compensate (charge?).
Several complaints regarding 'loljumpslash'.
You sum the dispute up quite well I think.
-
i enjoy running straight into the enemy and see the fear in their eyes as i don't turn away, i do get to lance a guys in the back here n there but most of my enemies know I'm riding towards them, if they don't its cause their an archer. Also i tend to do ok 1h cav vs a guy on the ground, mostly because the shield force blocks even the horse, which is a little op but that tends to be where the ground peasants aim. That is one thing i don't get how some people cry cav are pussies yet when i fight you 1h on horse back all they try to do is kill my horse then kill me before i can get up,and let me explain how i mean 1h on horseback, most of the time its standing still with a bit of turning my horse, while fighting some foolish peasant. Which is hard on William(plafrey) because he cant take many hits and then they get 28 attacks on me before i can get up, with Lyla(destrier) i can do a little more horse to peasant combat but even she cant survive 2-3 2h swings(every ones 2h). My only true option to being able to get into the thick of the melee and still be on a horse is Hank(Champion Charger) or CC for short, he can get into a melee and ignore the weaker swing while still allowing me to stay mounted even against 2-4 2h swings, sometimes i even ride out of the melee mosh pit on Hank, most of the time i walk out, and a few times only Hank escapes the carnage.
-
All of this. As it stands the "loljumpslashing" is nearly the only mean of defense against "lolracecarlancers", and it has still a very poor chance of success.
actually loljumpslashing is much more dangerous to slower moving tank horses because its easier to time/prepare than the racecarlancers
-
actually loljumpslashing is much more dangerous to slower moving tank horses because its easier to time/prepare than the racecarlancers
This.
I'm also sick of people calling cav pussies when I fight said people and they kill my horse then me like Tankmen said.
-
This.
I'm also sick of people calling cav pussies when I fight said people and they kill my horse then me like Tankmen said.
I've learned the hard way, sometimes in the initial charge to block and not even attempt an attack against any 2h sword user. Assume they will loljumpslash. This way they will think you're going to try and run them over on the 2nd pass, so wait to swing/chamber as long as you can.
-
I've learned the hard way, sometimes in the initial charge to block and not even attempt an attack against any 2h sword user. Assume they will loljumpslash. This way they will think you're going to try and run them over on the 2nd pass, so wait to swing/chamber as long as you can.
Thanks for the tip! :)
I'll try to test it later today
Cheers
-
I'm also concerned about the state of internal cav balance. God, even BlueGreen was corrupted by those lancers and stopped doing 1h cav. It's both harder and more gold consuming (you need an expensive weapon, a better armor and ofc. a heavier horsie) to get the same effectiveness. Furthermore, 1h = defenseless against lancers. Only very good cav players can play that half-successfully.
Really? What happened to "block down" :o
-
You can't block a couched lance.
-
I've seen 1 nomad lancer take down 1hand footmen/infantry with ease
All you have to do is crash into them and stab them. Even if they try to block with their only defensive capability besides normal blocking (which doesn't work either), you just crash into them and stab/slash or circle lance them until they get distracted or attacked, and then stab them.
-
You can't block a couched lance.
A couched lance leaves the rider pretty exposed, and unlike other attacks from horseback, it requires several seconds to setup properly, giving the enemy plenty of time to prepare/find cover.
-
A couched lance leaves the rider pretty exposed, and unlike other attacks from horseback, it requires several seconds to setup properly, giving the enemy plenty of time to prepare/find cover.
I agree, as I am only a couching lancer.
-
i'd say it depends on your playstyle... like backstabbing enemies? get a courser.
Like to be able to kill players who are aware of your presence and do good in cav vs cav.? get arabian warhorse
Want to bump, stay cose to enemies and be good infantry support? get a heavy horse
Like mario brothers, 2 m jumping , anti gravity movements , whine topics abaout cav , machine-guns , and spam macros play infantry :mrgreen: