cRPG

Strategus => Strategus General Discussion => Topic started by: Thomek on June 08, 2011, 03:49:34 pm

Title: Hexagonal map for Strategus and Ideas on how to (AB)USE it!
Post by: Thomek on June 08, 2011, 03:49:34 pm
Alright so heres the idea: (If some dev can come out and tell this is faaar out of what you have in mind, just let us know ;-)

In stead of having a completely open map where anyone can run where they want, I wanted to introduce the idea of controlling territory.. So I've stolen this idea from Panzer general..

(click to show/hide)

That way owning a city or a fort would actually mean something else than a production house, being able to decide what factions have free access in their territory i.ex. Some forts would have much more value if they have a strategic position.. and others again might gain value only in combination with other forts, creating a wall. Of course, factionless armies and players would not suffer from these constraints.

It should of course also not stop movement completely, only cut movement speed in half or so.

Such a system also opens up a whole lot of other opportunities, such as telling an AI caravan what route to take to the target. Owning some forts in the center of the map would contain huge risks, but you would also be able to extort taxes and offer protection to factions wiling to pay :-D

One faction could try to wall off a part of the map, controlling the enemy's ability to strike deep inside their territory.. Such an effort would, however be very risky, since not many other factions would like such a thing to happen freely.

Also, the grid i made on the map obviously have to big "masks", and a city or fort should not control such a large area. Of course the villages/forts cities should be adjusted to fit such a grid as well, so it makes more sense.

Also, the whole game of strategus would become far far more complex, and not just a game of having many players and many friends. In addition to the whole economical aspect, the strategic aspect would be of major importance. A location would have value in itself. A small guild in a very good location with an easily defendable fort, could buy itself security, cash, weapons or other favours based on giving access alone..

Perhaps the whole map should be redesigned by some genius, and perhaps every reset should contain a new map for us..

Just an idea..

(Also the green line there is just there to show that you could block off movement in mountain ranges, rivers, ocean etc..)

version with smaller hexes
(click to show/hide)

Map showing visibility and ZoC
(click to show/hide)

List of ideas on how to use the hexes:

1. Terrain types gives different movement bonuses and penalties.. Stacking with zone of control, thus a fort in a forest slows down an enemy much more
2. Terrain types can produce things.. Mountains can produce coal or minerals, wheat fields produce bread or cattle (food) Sea produce fish, like mentioned above..
3. You could give armies bonuses for surrounding an enemy.. Encirclement bonuses, give tactical advantage somehow. (Free tickets?)
4. Taxation of fiefs in your Zone of Control
5. Taxation of passing caravans
6. Programming advantages. ? (Dunno how it should be done, using the existing code to calculate what hex someone is in mathematically, or do a test against a matrix, what the hell, i dunno shit about programming :-D
7. Road building..
8. Contested Zones.. :-) Basically walking through no-mans land.. perhaps stuff that happens in no-mans land will not be recorded in any way by players, leading to my next point.
9. Information Gathering of passing players, armies and caravans.
10. Building of structures.
11. Pillaging of structures.
12. Visibility range. Let's say you build a spy-tower, giving you information about surrounding hexes and what players are doing there..
13. Easier coding of what terrain a player might expect if battling in a spesific hex. Next time a battle is there, the exact same terrain would appear, encouraging players to scout terrain and store information about it, so they can plan their next battle.. People could sell maps of areas to each other!
14. Fog of War. No-one will know how big, or how the world map looks like.. Everyone just know their little piece, making world-map and screenshot trading, faking of screenshots (!) etc it's own business! (Again encouraging spy-clans and spy-factions, delivering up-to date information about factions.. Bribing members etc etc.. hehe.
15.. Hidden movement. If you only travel with 1 soldier army, no-one can detect you..
16. Turn based movement: (Suggested by PhantomZero)
17. Taxable hexes (Suggested by Sir Henry)
18.  "I just want old strategus back" (Suggested by TheDashingRogue)
19. Armys under 20 ppl shoud be hidden.(Suggested by Gingerpussy)
20. Tydeus suggested implementing a Morale bonus (+1!) consisting of boosting stats to players controlling surrounding hexes.
21. Artillery from PG would be cool somehow.. But how exactly could it work? How could adjacent hexes defend an adjacent hex? Or attack PAST another hex?
22. Electro suggested having squares within squared.. didnt quite understand but see here:  http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,7804.msg120581.html#msg120581 (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,7804.msg120581.html#msg120581)
23. Monsterbrum was contemplating economical aspects:
"I'm allready thinking abaut the cool economical aspects that could be added this way
-Every ticket would need an spesific amaunt of suplies.
-spesific hexes grow spesific "suplies", like: hexes in green (grassy) lands are the only hexes that would grow wheath.
-than an faction needs more food, the faction is realy strong it declears war with another faction, wich isnt strong but has good land for growing wheath, than when the defenders pull back they burn the fields, so the enemy starves. Think abaut the hunderd years war, the french did it, napoleons invasion in russia etc..
-an harvest fails, but an faction was so smart to smart to save a bunch of it and thusford has a lot of power cause of the saved suplies they have.

I like putting in an mixtiure of strategic things like defending passes and stuff connected to economical things."
24. Building and destroying improvements. (Adding a cost of war.. and perhaps interesting strategies. Scorched Earth anyone? Perhaps a faction could self-destruct its own improvements if it doesn't feel it has a chance of getting it back in the near future. And perhaps armies in recently scorched hexes become more vulnerable to supply-lines)
25. Joseph suggested I become a dev. I'm sorry I'm almost never at irc, don't have the time etc.. But I do care about games. This game especially! But it soo much easier philosophizing loosely without having to actually develop anything, let alone balance it. This list is more of a pool of ideas, then the devs can choose and pick what they like. (Thats why you too should bring in ideas! You never know, because even a the crappiest idea can have some aspect that might be interesting in their minds.)
26. SUPPLY LINES Oh how I would love to see it done.. It would create a very deep perspective to the gameplay..
27. The hex idea goes hand in hand with Noctivagants idea of sea battles. A hex would provide an actual area of sea worth controlling and fighting for. For fish, or for travel.
28. Noctis superb map of the last status in strategus, Hexadecimally done!:
(click to show/hide)

 
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: Thomek on June 08, 2011, 04:09:47 pm
Reserved for later
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: ManOfWar on June 08, 2011, 04:52:21 pm
Hmmm interesting, but this will conflict with what the dev team were turning strat into correct?
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: Ecko on June 08, 2011, 05:01:36 pm
Cool. I like it.
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: Casimir on June 08, 2011, 05:09:06 pm
Looks cool, would definitely add a more strategic element to the map
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: Harald on June 08, 2011, 06:12:09 pm
I like this idea a lot. IMO it is not too far off since it would solve a few things in a nice way (routes, blocking, etc.). Right now our plan is just to bring back strategus like it was before, but within the new website and an improved code base (that is what i'm working on). There were some ideas for e.g. varying movement speed, but nothing specific planned afaik.
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: DarkFox on June 08, 2011, 06:42:55 pm
Quote
Right now our plan is just to bring back strategus like it was before, but within the new website and an improved code base
No any new gameplay features?  :o
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: Thovex on June 08, 2011, 06:46:52 pm
Hey Thomek, will I get gold for owning the sea?

Like a fisherman faction!
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: gazda on June 08, 2011, 07:20:00 pm
Quote from: DarkFox on June 08, 2011, 06:42:55 pm
No any new gameplay features?  :o

ill take it, as long as its up  :)
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: Panoply on June 08, 2011, 08:06:40 pm
Great idea! This would make Strategus more Strategus, and less Tacticus.
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: Thomek on June 08, 2011, 10:17:59 pm
(click to show/hide)

Moved to 1st post
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: Joseph on June 08, 2011, 10:34:14 pm
AWESOME, looks like civ mixed with Total war.
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: PhantomZero on June 08, 2011, 11:08:14 pm
This would also easily convert it into a turn based game, so people wouldn't have to constantly sit there and watch for invading armies, instead only checking every couple hours or so per turn.

Turns would also not resolve until all battle for that turn were done, thus preventing the use of the 10 man army to bog down 1000 men while the 990 man army runs right by them and  assaults the now undefended town.
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: Tears of Destiny on June 08, 2011, 11:32:58 pm
+1 for this!

I would love to see something like this implemented.
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: Thomek on June 08, 2011, 11:57:08 pm
About watching for invading armies, if crossing a tile normally took 2 hours, it would take perhaps 4 hours to cross a tile in Enemy Zone of Control. More if the tile was mountain or forest.. (6-8 hours) And if the range of visibility extended past the ZoC by one tile, you would have a warning of minimum 4+2, and maximum  4+4 Mountain+ZoC (50% slowdown) + Visibility tile of let's say forest 3 hours = 11 hours warning, if no allies or scouts already warned you.

So turn based would perhaps not be necessary.. I liked the around the clock dynamics of the previous installation, although it was sleep-depriving.. :-D

Heres a picture of what i see as visibility range. Perhas it should be less, perhaps it should be extendable by building watchtowers, perhaps watchtowers should extend it even more.

And I would of course request email-notification feature.. that way when a certain faction enters, or you get attacked, strategus sends you an email. That email you can then forward to all sorts of devices.. (and make sure you will have no life..)

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: Sir Henry on June 09, 2011, 12:11:45 am
I like it very much.  It would help with a lot i think. 
Would all tiles have a certain tax (say 50), then a village adds (say 25), then a castle adds (say 30), and town (100)?  So if you own an important hex like Dhirm Hex in the post above by Thomek you could have 205 gold from taxes a day (Base tax + Dhirm + Derechios Castle + Emerin).  It would help to add to strategic value of certain tiles.  I dont know, maybe its something to think about

EDIT: i think the smaller hex map would probably be better (that would mean the Dhirm tile didnt have everything though  :( )
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: Tavuk_Bey on June 09, 2011, 02:03:10 am
looks like hive cells
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: MountedRhader on June 09, 2011, 03:31:46 am
I just want the old strategus back
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: Gingerpussy on June 09, 2011, 01:45:08 pm
This is a very good idea. i allso like the invisible 1 man armys :)
At the end there was 2000 players roaming around and u see all of them.

Armys under 20 ppl shoud be hidden.

I wil however be very happy with the old strategus back aswel...

+1
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: ManOfWar on June 09, 2011, 02:06:49 pm
Quote from: Gingerpussy on June 09, 2011, 01:45:08 pm
This is a very good idea. i allso like the invisible 1 man armys :)
At the end there was 2000 players roaming around and u see all of them.

Armys under 20 ppl shoud be hidden.

I wil however be very happy with the old strategus back aswel...

+1

This
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: Tydeus on June 09, 2011, 02:53:27 pm
Quote from: Thomek on June 08, 2011, 10:17:59 pm
3. You could give armies bonuses for surrounding an enemy.. Encirclement bonuses, give tactical advantage somehow. (Free tickets?)

9. Information Gathering of passing players, armies and caravans.

14. Fog of War. No-one will know how big, or how the world map looks like.. Everyone just know their little piece, making world-map and screenshot trading, faking of screenshots (!) etc it's own business! (Again encouraging spy-clans and spy-factions, delivering up-to date information about factions.. Bribing members etc etc.. hehe.

15.. Hidden movement. If you only travel with 1 soldier army, no-one can detect you..
Maybe instead of free tickets the troops with the tactical advantage gain morale. Morale could do anything from simply adding wpf at low levels of morale to adding skill points (Higher PS/PD/Athletics etc...) at high levels of morale.

I'd like to see Fog of War but in a way where faction/clan leaders or Generals could gain the sight of all of the members in that faction, regardless of their position. Then also add the ability for factions to employ spies which would also have sight linked. Where they could tell you for example, how many troops enemy units have, as well as showing you the locations of units directly surrounding the spy.
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: Corwin on June 09, 2011, 03:12:56 pm
+1 for Thomek's idea.

And I also think PG was the greatest game ever!
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: Espu on June 09, 2011, 03:17:57 pm
Topic title is pretty misleading. You appear to be talking about hex-based map, but actually most of the ideas do not really require hexes but work just as well in freeform map (or square, 3d, whatever). Of course this doesn't make the ideas any less worthy of consideration though!

I like the hex map. Actually, all cool games use hex-based mechanics!
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: Corwin on June 09, 2011, 03:20:11 pm
So very true.
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: Dunecat on June 09, 2011, 03:27:17 pm
I like hexagonal maps, they remind me of good ol' tabletops.
And I also like some of new ideas.
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: Jarlek on June 09, 2011, 03:31:30 pm
This looks awesome! Only thing I don't like is that the hexagons is too big. Although I do think you mentioned this somewhere...
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: Thomek on June 09, 2011, 07:02:43 pm
Quote from: Vargas on June 09, 2011, 03:17:57 pm
Topic title is pretty misleading. You appear to be talking about hex-based map, but actually most of the ideas do not really require hexes but work just as well in freeform map (or square, 3d, whatever). Of course this doesn't make the ideas any less worthy of consideration though!

Well that is true.. I just think things become much clearer when thought in hexes. If you have units with clear sight radiuses, or pixel defined map areas producing whet i.e. it becomes kind of abusable and annoying. (Like hiding 1 pixel outside sightrange etc)

And the size of the hexes is something I'm not able to predict, decide, guess, recommend etc. That's up to more clever people than me, knowing something about amount of players and being able to do some qualified thinking. For sure they must be smaller than in the first map however. (It was a nice way to illustrate the idea)

Bring in some more ideas folks..  I was thinking about the artillery and entrenchment mechanics of PG, of course having artillery shoot past hexes would be silly in strategus, but perhaps entrenchment could give some kind of bonus of free siege shields, movable pike defenses or the like, depending on how long, and how big the army has been waiting in a hex.

Every hex could also be given clear stats that would say something about the terrain you can expect in a battle there. I.ex it is 40% mountainous 30% forested, contains a river etc. Basically simplified version of the factors that generate random maps. After the map has been played once, it get's saved and is never changed again.

And another idea.. a plague spreading? :-D (I'll leave that one to chadz as the ultimate trolling tool of the devs..)
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: Ninja_Khorin on June 10, 2011, 03:27:42 am
Hexagons are always awesome.
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: Tristan on June 10, 2011, 03:30:45 am
Thread signed.

+1
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: Torak on June 10, 2011, 03:36:25 am
Like it a lot +1
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: Reinhardt on June 10, 2011, 06:16:31 am
Quote from: DarkFox on June 08, 2011, 06:42:55 pm
No any new gameplay features?  :o
Sounds about right..
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: Gafgarion on June 10, 2011, 09:22:14 am
Never played the old strategus, but I can now image a war room (or a teamspeak server) where people move pieces around a giant map to plan strategies around armies, castles, towns, etc on the hex overworld battlefield.

Reminds me of a ton of games and this video (The focus is the chess board).
(click to show/hide)

Of course, any Strategus would do at this point. =)
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: Jarlek on June 10, 2011, 12:47:05 pm
Quote from: Gafgarion on June 10, 2011, 09:22:14 am
Never played the old strategus, but I can now image a war room (or a teamspeak server) where people move pieces around a giant map to plan strategies around armies, castles, towns, etc on the hex overworld battlefield.

Reminds me of a ton of games and this video (The focus is the chess board).
(click to show/hide)

Of course, any Strategus would do at this point. =)
OMG AGE OF EMPIRES II! I haven't seen that intro movie in ages! I'm wanna go play it now :D
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: Perceval on June 10, 2011, 05:29:43 pm
YEAH
+1
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: KaMiKaZe_JoE on June 11, 2011, 02:44:51 am
Idea of hexagonal (or octagonal, or penisgonal) map gets my support!
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: Sultan Eren on June 11, 2011, 04:47:16 am
We can model every hex to a map and we can actually have a battle on the ground which we see on the hex like Total War Series. Too much time doing it?
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: mandible/splinteryourjaw on June 11, 2011, 01:23:45 pm
This also worked well in Civil War Generals 1 & 2  where each hex had a terrain boost/decrease, morale gain/decrease, speed affect, etc.    These conditions were based on proximity, landscape, snipers range, woodlands, rivers, valleys, towns, hills, you get the point.  Some great ambushes came out of it also.

It was very strategic because you could move two hexes and be at a big disadvantage...you really had to plan your attack and approach.
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: Butan on June 12, 2011, 12:17:34 pm
Everything Thomek said +1
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: Electro on June 12, 2011, 01:47:10 pm
i agree with this but a new idea
 instead of hexagon you have a sqaure
the square will have 9 more sqaures in that square
so it would be like

789
456
123
and all those numbers would be in 1 square .

Electro

Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: Thomek on June 12, 2011, 02:24:45 pm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hex_map (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hex_map)

Nah, I think hex is better, it is more clear what tiles are adjacent, and it is the same distance to every adjacent tile like described in that article.
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: Amo_the_Grey on June 12, 2011, 06:35:33 pm
hexagonal map will add a really positive strategic aspect :) I like it.
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: monsterbrum on June 13, 2011, 03:55:24 pm
I'm allready thinking abaut the cool economical aspects that could be added this way
-Every ticket would need an spesific amaunt of suplies.
-spesific hexes grow spesific "suplies", like: hexes in green (grassy) lands are the only hexes that would grow wheath.
-than an faction needs more food, the faction is realy strong it declears war with another faction, wich isnt strong but has good land for growing wheath, than when the defenders pull back they burn the fields, so the enemy starves. Think abaut the hunderd years war, the french did it, napoleons invasion in russia etc..
-an harvest fails, but an faction was so smart to smart to save a bunch of it and thusford has a lot of power cause of the saved suplies they have.

I like putting in an mixtiure of strategic things like defending passes and stuff connected to economical things.
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: Thomek on June 13, 2011, 04:49:06 pm
Yeah.. burning the fields is a great idea..

Or the whole idea that the land starts out green and rich, but after being savaged by war becomes less and less attractive economically. If u could construct improvements on tiles..

Pillaging towns and villages, destroying those improvements etc. Could be interesting!
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: 3ABP on June 13, 2011, 05:58:57 pm
Too big "grid".
Vote - NO. In this case.

In case of smaller "grid" - may be.
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: Thomek on June 13, 2011, 06:57:32 pm
the first pic is of course to big grid. its merely illustration.
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: 3ABP on June 13, 2011, 08:12:25 pm
Quote from: Thomek on June 13, 2011, 06:57:32 pm
the first pic is of course to big grid. its merely illustration.
Thеn it looks like very interesting i (have a big potential)
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: Joseph on June 13, 2011, 08:14:28 pm
Quote from: Thomek on June 13, 2011, 06:57:32 pm
the first pic is of course to big grid. its merely illustration.

Make this guy a developper.
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: Spurdospera on June 14, 2011, 02:08:17 am
Quote from: monsterbrum on June 13, 2011, 03:55:24 pm
I'm allready thinking abaut the cool economical aspects that could be added this way
-Every ticket would need an spesific amaunt of suplies.
-spesific hexes grow spesific "suplies", like: hexes in green (grassy) lands are the only hexes that would grow wheath.
-than an faction needs more food, the faction is realy strong it declears war with another faction, wich isnt strong but has good land for growing wheath, than when the defenders pull back they burn the fields, so the enemy starves. Think abaut the hunderd years war, the french did it, napoleons invasion in russia etc..
-an harvest fails, but an faction was so smart to smart to save a bunch of it and thusford has a lot of power cause of the saved suplies they have.

I like putting in an mixtiure of strategic things like defending passes and stuff connected to economical things.
We already have game for this (civ5 anyone=?)
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: Sir_PedoBear on June 14, 2011, 05:38:47 am
Quote from: Spurdospera on June 14, 2011, 02:08:17 am
We already have game for this (civ5 anyone=?)
yeah but this is civ5 in a living world thats combined with the awesome mount and blade cRPG combat=awesome
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: ArchonAlarion on June 14, 2011, 07:33:37 pm
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
 (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/31/jakepic.png/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: Thomek on June 14, 2011, 07:41:38 pm
yes... but settlers is pure genious. Why not borrow a bit?
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: ArchonAlarion on June 14, 2011, 08:36:42 pm
Who said I am against the idea?  :P

When I get home, I'm gonna make a catan+expansions map of calradia lol
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: Joseph on June 14, 2011, 08:48:58 pm
Quote from: ArchonAlarion on June 14, 2011, 07:33:37 pm
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
 (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/31/jakepic.png/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

You forgot the weebo.  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: Kafein on June 14, 2011, 11:15:54 pm
Quote from: Spurdospera on June 14, 2011, 02:08:17 am
We already have game for this (civ5 anyone=?)

Civ 5 ? What an horrible reference for a videogame :? (Apart from the hex map btw)

Take Civ4 (or Civ2 btw) or a Paradox Interactive Grand Strategy Game like Victoria, Europa Universalis or Hearts Of Iron. Or ofc a wargame like panzer general, then you have a great game to inspire Strategus.

But I doubt our lazy chadz and his lazy dev team will ever remake such glorious monuments and melt them together to make a new Strategus.
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: Wookimonsta on June 14, 2011, 11:18:22 pm
I HAVE AN IDEA; LETS TURN STRATEGUS INTO CIV!
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: H4rdn3ssKill3r on June 14, 2011, 11:24:07 pm
Quote from: Wookimonsta on June 14, 2011, 11:18:22 pm
I HAVE AN IDEA; LETS TURN STRATEGUS INTO CIV!

OH RATHER!
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: Joseph on June 15, 2011, 02:28:35 am
Let's start with the old one and then we'll see.
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: Thomek on June 16, 2011, 03:13:54 am
Oh I got an idea..

What killed off most of the big invasions in history? Long supply lines..

What I mean is that a faction sending out an army.. well it may starve or start to "loose equipment" or such, if it is hanging out a certain amount of hexes from a friendly/allied town. Let's say an army is 5 hexes away from nearest town.. penalties start to apply to it.

Now.. if an enemy were to cut off the shortest way of supply by occupying hexes behind it. Either it gets cut off completely, and begins to really starve fast, or the shortest route to a friendly/allied town is now 10 hexes, and a larger penalty applies!

This is only realistic, and must be implemented!

(And it makes sense, and it would create more strategic depth, and armies would have an incentive to attack their neighbors before that small vulnerable faction on the other side of the map.. Such a venture is of course possible with allies though.)
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: Vovka on June 16, 2011, 09:36:27 am
 :? Hex?
If u want control territory just give army to active player )
If u want hex play in panzer general ))
I hope I never see it in strategus   :?
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: Peasant_Woman on June 16, 2011, 02:02:07 pm
You could use the Civ 5 worldbuilder tool to make a map of calraidia...I might try that actually.
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: Sultan Eren on June 16, 2011, 02:09:36 pm
Quote from: Peasant_Woman on June 16, 2011, 02:02:07 pm
You could use the Civ 5 worldbuilder tool to make a map of calraidia...I might try that actually.

Waiting for screens. :)
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: Peasant_Woman on June 16, 2011, 11:21:33 pm
Ok so I had a go at making Calraidia in Civ5.

(click to show/hide)

It isn't 100% accurate due to the limitations of hex's, but all the main rivers/forests/mountains/cities should be pretty damn close. I started doing resources too based on what I could remember from singleplayer (fish for nords, wine/velvet/silk for rhodoks, iron and bread/wheat/ale for swadia etc. but i'm not sure where some of them should go location wise.)
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: Thomek on June 17, 2011, 03:58:43 am
great! :-)

It proves the point. Although I think it could be done nicer with a painted map, and just a hex overlay.

Here's a screen from PG2

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: ManOfWar on June 17, 2011, 06:06:09 am
Quote from: Thomek on June 17, 2011, 03:58:43 am
great! :-)

It proves the point. Although I think it could be done nicer with a painted map, and just a hex overlay.

Here's a screen from PG2

(click to show/hide)

I dont know banok, you saw the screen shot they did, theyre putting the actual  singleplayer map into it, Im sure that will put some tactical crap into it
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: Gafgarion on June 17, 2011, 07:43:53 am
Quote from: Peasant_Woman on June 16, 2011, 11:21:33 pm
Ok so I had a go at making Calraidia in Civ5.

(click to show/hide)

It isn't 100% accurate due to the limitations of hex's, but all the main rivers/forests/mountains/cities should be pretty damn close. I started doing resources too based on what I could remember from singleplayer (fish for nords, wine/velvet/silk for rhodoks, iron and bread/wheat/ale for swadia etc. but i'm not sure where some of them should go location wise.)

That looks epic Ninja.. +1
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: Tears of Destiny on June 17, 2011, 06:20:42 pm
Quote from: ManOfWar on June 17, 2011, 06:06:09 am
I dont know banok, you saw the screen shot they did, theyre putting the actual  singleplayer map into it, Im sure that will put some tactical crap into it

The same screenshot that was posted on April Fool's?
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: chadz on June 17, 2011, 06:29:34 pm
not possible due to the scalability

at least not with the resources we have
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: ManOfWar on June 17, 2011, 06:37:54 pm
Quote from: Tears_of_Destiny on June 17, 2011, 06:20:42 pm
The same screenshot that was posted on April Fool's?

Ya that one, its gonna be awesomeee :D
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: Thomek on June 17, 2011, 08:09:34 pm
chadz, what is not possible, the hex or the screen?

:-)

Would be nice to know, so we could keep ideas flowing. Testing out Panzer General 2, Star General and Fantasy General for inspiration atm.

btw, here is the destiny of the guys that developed PG and started SSI (and published over a 100 games)

http://www.2by3games.com/ (http://www.2by3games.com/)

They make great games, but imo got too involved in wwii stuff and micromanagement..
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: Mulic on June 19, 2011, 04:21:42 pm
I like the idea.
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: Noctivagant on June 23, 2011, 12:34:48 pm
This map is designed to help players and factions to understand Strategus faction borders. Faction borders are reviewed to be more accurate. Old maps were showing some factions larger than they are due filling unnecessary landfill.

The map of Calradia divided into hexagonal cells. Players can view or hide factions on the map or edit their borders. Map shows the last borders of Strategus. Faction leaders can note Merc_Noctivagant on cRPG forum for updates or errors.

Download : http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=2982

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Map with the current borders

(click to show/hide)
Hide faction option (hide layer in Photoshop)

(click to show/hide)
Viewing single faction (hide all except selected layer alt+click visibility option)
Thank Thomek for the idea
http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,8870.0.html
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: [ptx] on June 23, 2011, 12:46:46 pm
Noc, you crazy, life-less turk. That looks sweet!
Also, hexes rule! How can you have anything without hexes!?
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: Noctivagant on June 23, 2011, 01:05:11 pm
Quote from: [ptx] on June 23, 2011, 12:46:46 pm
Noc, you crazy, life-less turk. That looks sweet!
Also, hexes rule! How can you have anything without hexes!?

I was studying the map for upcoming Strat and bumped into this topic. I said why not lets make it.
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: Thomek on June 23, 2011, 01:31:51 pm
Looks fantastic Nocti.

(the design is perhaps a bit futuristic but the point is clear!)

I think that for a final map, one would have to move villages and features to fit inside the hexes a bit more. Also I think you got a feel for the size of a hex relative to the map. It should not be too small and become insignificant strategically, but there should be many, as there will be many players on the map..

Also your map illustrates in a great way the potential of controlling territories etc.. I.ex if grey wanted to attack Mercs, they would have to have an agreement with Gardarike or one of the others.. (secret or not)

but why your sea-hexes so small?
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: Noctivagant on June 23, 2011, 01:52:05 pm
Quote from: Thomek on June 23, 2011, 01:31:51 pm
Looks fantastic Nocti.

(the design is perhaps a bit futuristic but the point is clear!)

I think that for a final map, one would have to move villages and features to fit inside the hexes a bit more. Also I think you got a feel for the size of a hex relative to the map. It should not be too small and become insignificant strategically, but there should be many, as there will be many players on the map..

Also your map illustrates in a great way the potential of controlling territories etc.. I.ex if grey wanted to attack Mercs, they would have to have an agreement with Gardarike or one of the others.. (secret or not)

but why your sea-hexes so small?

There is no naval battles thats why, I needed some contrast. If naval battles were the case, I'd work on it. I suggested it some time ago http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,3795.0.html I got shit loads of ship models waiting ready.
Well we need plains too for steppe battles or something like oasis. Although battles are quite useless in strategus, it would be useful of there were strategic resources to capture (mines, fields, rivers etc.)
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: Tears of Destiny on June 23, 2011, 04:04:31 pm
Goodness gracious that looks gorgeous! +1 to you!
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: Casimir on June 23, 2011, 05:03:35 pm
Nice work noc looking sweet, Im sure the donkey will come back and ruins dreams again however.
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: Sir Henry on June 23, 2011, 09:26:58 pm
Noctivagant you forgot the Farmers :D
We would own the hex that Mit Nun is in

nice work.  It looks really good, but i dont know if its possible to code.  I hope it works
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: Noctivagant on June 24, 2011, 12:43:39 am
Quote from: Sir Henry on June 23, 2011, 09:26:58 pm
Noctivagant you forgot the Farmers :D
We would own the hex that Mit Nun is in

nice work.  It looks really good, but i dont know if its possible to code.  I hope it works

Ah yeah I remember now I'll fix it asap
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: Sir Henry on June 24, 2011, 09:01:54 pm
Quote from: Noctivagant on June 24, 2011, 12:43:39 am
Ah yeah I remember now I'll fix it asap

Haha thanks, it really doesnt matter that much as we are puny and insignifigant.  Again, great work
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: LLJK_Korea1 on June 25, 2011, 05:55:43 pm
Supporting this
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: SchokoSchaf on June 25, 2011, 05:59:41 pm
Noctivagant, the River Pirates patch around Amashke turned Wolpergreen. Mind fixing that too?  :oops:
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: Dezilagel on June 25, 2011, 08:29:55 pm
Wow, this is amazing! O.O

Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: Thomek on June 25, 2011, 08:42:05 pm
I think that map is just an example boys.. Not something that will be used directly as-is in strategus.. (Who will perhaps start wiped waddayaknow)

So no need to burden nocti by fixing it! It's not a true diplomatic map.. Anyhow, if hexes were to be introduced in strategus, we would probably see villages and fiefs, mountains and rivers moved a little to fit inside the hexes.
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for some future version of strategus..
Post by: Jarlek on June 25, 2011, 10:22:48 pm
That being said, it is a sweet looking map :D
Title: Re: Hexagonal map for Strategus and Ideas on how to (AB)USE it!
Post by: Thomek on June 26, 2011, 01:20:12 am
Updated the 1st post with collections of ideas in this thread ++