cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Ylca on June 07, 2011, 05:56:38 am

Title: New Server Standard: 100% Team damage, 100% Reflect
Post by: Ylca on June 07, 2011, 05:56:38 am
The current standard seems to be 100% friendly fire, meaning if an swing wounds a member of your team they take all the damage.

Since teamwounding is supposed to be accidental, and there needs to be some sort of damage for teamswinging, why should the punished party be the one who did nothing?

100% reflect means that 100% of the damage of a teamwound is reflected to the teamwounder not the victim.

Turning on 100% reflect could end "lolteamwound" overnight. Would save admins a lot of listening to complaints, no one would care about teamwounding anymore because the people will just be hurting themselves.

Anyone have any points as to why this would be a bad idea or shouldn't be standard across all CRPG servers? Has it been tried before?

Title: Re: New Server Standard: 100% Team damage, 100% Reflect
Post by: Tears of Destiny on June 07, 2011, 06:01:06 am
The Texas_Battle server sometimes does this, other times 50% and other times no reflective damage.

End result of 100% is absolute hilarity, especially if new players or bad players or trolls (people deliberately getting in your way) do this.

Keep in mind that horse bumps don't seem to reflect damage... either that or massive glitches were happening that were preventing this.

I personally am all for 100% team damage and no reflective damage, though it is hilarious for 100% to be turned on (as in people from both teams laughing).
Title: Re: New Server Standard: 100% Team damage, 100% Reflect
Post by: Joseph on June 07, 2011, 06:12:24 am
I prefer to get swing at than seeying my brother in arm dying for something I did not request.


If such things would exist, you can be sure he can die and go to hell, I'll not help my brother this time.
Title: Re: New Server Standard: 100% Team damage, 100% Reflect
Post by: Ylca on June 07, 2011, 06:16:46 am
I prefer to get swing at than seeying my brother in arm dying for something I did not request.

That's fair, but quite a few other people tire of seeing their brothers in arms impose upon them damage they did not request either. No friendly fire isn't an option, so again- why should the victim be punished for someone else's actions? If your brother in arms doesn't want to die from a swing he should learn to control his swings.

e: I assumed you meant "I prefer to take the hit than to have my teammate die when i'm okay with him making a mistake"
Title: Re: New Server Standard: 100% Team damage, 100% Reflect
Post by: Joseph on June 07, 2011, 06:18:28 am
That's fair, but quite a few other people tire of seeing their brothers in arms impose upon them damage they did not request either. No friendly fire isn't an option, so again- why should the victim be punished for someone else's actions? If your brother in arms doesn't want to die from a swing he should learn to control his swings.

Take your D*** sword and put a end to his miseries.
Title: Re: New Server Standard: 100% Team damage, 100% Reflect
Post by: Ylca on June 07, 2011, 06:22:18 am
Take your D*** sword and put a end to his miseries.

Now i have no idea what you're talking about.  :|
Title: Re: New Server Standard: 100% Team damage, 100% Reflect
Post by: Joseph on June 07, 2011, 06:25:54 am
Now i have no idea what you're talking about.  :|

Accident happens in time of war,
GET RID OF HIM.

 :arrow: I hope it's not too hard to understand.
Title: Re: New Server Standard: 100% Team damage, 100% Reflect
Post by: Ylca on June 07, 2011, 06:36:53 am
Accident happens in time of war,
GET RID OF HIM.

 :arrow: I hope it's not too hard to understand.

So you're saying you want to keep teamwounding the way it is. Okay, what's your reasoning? Keep in mind "I don't mind getting teamwounded" doesn't even remotely apply to the entire community (nor would i think the vast majority).
Title: Re: New Server Standard: 100% Team damage, 100% Reflect
Post by: Ninja_Khorin on June 07, 2011, 07:22:53 am
2vs1 situation. 1 guy makes a mistake of teamhitting, both die. That's silly.
I'd rather give teamkills experience and gold penalties that increase if you teamkill multiple times a round/map.
Title: Re: New Server Standard: 100% Team damage, 100% Reflect
Post by: Joseph on June 07, 2011, 07:26:36 am
So you're saying you want to keep teamwounding the way it is. Okay, what's your reasoning? Keep in mind "I don't mind getting teamwounded" doesn't even remotely apply to the entire community (nor would i think the vast majority).

Quote
If such things would exist, you can be sure he can die and go to hell, I'll not help my brother this time.
Title: Re: New Server Standard: 100% Team damage, 100% Reflect
Post by: Digglez on June 07, 2011, 07:30:13 am
mirror dmg has no place in teamwork games and is a sign of lazy admins

the admin mods for HalfLife are stellar that you can punish or forgive TK's or TW'ing. 
You can also script shit like automatically booting/banning someone that shoots or TW's in spawn.
Title: Re: New Server Standard: 100% Team damage, 100% Reflect
Post by: Ylca on June 07, 2011, 07:32:48 am
mirror dmg has no place in teamwork games and is a sign of lazy admins

the admin mods for HalfLife are stellar that you can punish or forgive TK's or TW'ing. 
You can also script shit like automatically booting/banning someone that shoots or TW's in spawn.

Mirror damage is designed for games with teamwork. In what other game but a game designed around teamwork would reflective damage be even implementable? You can't reflect damage in a free-for-all.

Also you didn't touch on why the person who is causing the team wound shouldn't take the damage they are dealing out thoughtlessly, but the random passerby who is simply attempting to play the game should be punished simply for being on the same team as someone who can't control their swing.

Can someone make an honest argument as to the cons to this? I still really haven't heard any.
Title: Re: New Server Standard: 100% Team damage, 100% Reflect
Post by: Ylca on June 07, 2011, 07:36:10 am
2vs1 situation. 1 guy makes a mistake of teamhitting, both die. That's silly.
I'd rather give teamkills experience and gold penalties that increase if you teamkill multiple times a round/map.

Or, 2 v 1 situation- both know they can be team damaged so instead of swinging wildly (who cares if your teammate dies, right? Next to no consequences) they both actually attempt to, you know, strike at their intended target instead of anything within range.
Title: Re: New Server Standard: 100% Team damage, 100% Reflect
Post by: Joseph on June 07, 2011, 07:48:26 am
Or, 2 v 1 situation- both know they can be team damaged so instead of swinging wildly (who cares if your teammate dies, right? Next to no consequences) they both actually attempt to, you know, strike at their intended target instead of anything within range.

Never trust anyone is the first rule to ALL FPS (or alike)
Title: Re: New Server Standard: 100% Team damage, 100% Reflect
Post by: Matey on June 07, 2011, 08:22:34 am
the Fallen server had this for a while... i dont think it was 100% reflect... but either way, it was horrible and everyone hated it, so they turned it off.
Title: Re: New Server Standard: 100% Team damage, 100% Reflect
Post by: Cyclopsided on June 07, 2011, 09:26:57 am
50% damage to your friend, 50% damage to yourself.
I've always liked that setting.
if I make a mistake I should be punished for it.
Title: Re: New Server Standard: 100% Team damage, 100% Reflect
Post by: Paul on June 07, 2011, 09:29:01 am
No reflective damage. It is horrible.
Title: Re: New Server Standard: 100% Team damage, 100% Reflect
Post by: Malaclypse on June 07, 2011, 10:48:01 am
My issue with reflective damage is that it stuns you. It's bad enough that you've stunned or killed your teammate, but to have both of you stunned (and possibly both killed) from team damage, in the heat of combat, could leave what's left of either of you in a position to be more quickly dispatched by the enemy, which in turn goes on to hurt the rest of the team more a teamhit or kill already does in the current setup.
Title: Re: New Server Standard: 100% Team damage, 100% Reflect
Post by: Espu on June 07, 2011, 11:03:11 am
Discussed over 9000 times. Not gonna happen on official servers.
Title: Re: New Server Standard: 100% Team damage, 100% Reflect
Post by: Bulzur on June 07, 2011, 11:13:59 am
Discussed over 9000 times. Not gonna happen on official servers.

Glad to hear that.
Title: Re: New Server Standard: 100% Team damage, 100% Reflect
Post by: kinngrimm on June 07, 2011, 11:31:44 am
you don't get rid of intentional tks, you just adjust the method of deliverance.

Now one person kills another one, he gets -1 all know who did it

Then one person steps into a strike intentionaly of a team mate, same result but harder to spot. Same problem with less deflection, the troll just needs to step more often into strikes of teammates.

Another example, Ranged guy shoots, targets move, teammates move, results in tk and self inflicted death through exident. While our front guy has an arrow in his head surviving, the shooter just falls out of his shoes 300 yards away where no enemies are nearby, how realistic is that?
Title: Re: New Server Standard: 100% Team damage, 100% Reflect
Post by: MouthnHoof on June 07, 2011, 01:45:28 pm
Missile friendly damage should be reflective and least a small component of it. Melee friendly damage should be normal. The percentage can be argued.

The reason is that there is absolutely no excuse for ranged friendly damage. "He jumped infront of me" is just lame - do not shoot with friendlies too close to you and do not shoot into melee unless YOU take the risk. This cannot be said about melee friedly damage because you have the friendlies near you and attacking the same targets by definition. There it is much harder to avoid the agility stacked friendly jumping into your swing.

The vast majority of me being TK is from melee, but closely rivaling that is me being killed because of a friendly arrow in the back that interrupted me. I think that many friendly archers do not even notice they hit me.  Reflective damage is not so bad in this case (the archer is not under immediate threat and will be killed due to the stun) and even a low % is sufficient to be a "watch out!" reply to a friendly hit without insta-killing him.
Title: Re: New Server Standard: 100% Team damage, 100% Reflect
Post by: Ylca on June 07, 2011, 04:01:02 pm
Dev has spoken, so it's not going to happen.

Teamwounding and TKing will continue at their current rate, so back to the drawing board for other ideas.

I'm pretty surprised  at the mixed response. I guess people just don't see tking/wounding as that big of a deal.
Title: Re: New Server Standard: 100% Team damage, 100% Reflect
Post by: Kafein on June 07, 2011, 05:42:30 pm
Dev has spoken, so it's not going to happen.

Teamwounding and TKing will continue at their current rate, so back to the drawing board for other ideas.

I'm pretty surprised  at the mixed response. I guess people just don't see tking/wounding as that big of a deal.

It doesn't really affect the gameplay in a bad way.
Title: Re: New Server Standard: 100% Team damage, 100% Reflect
Post by: Digglez on June 07, 2011, 07:17:58 pm
Dev has spoken, so it's not going to happen.

Teamwounding and TKing will continue at their current rate, so back to the drawing board for other ideas.

I'm pretty surprised  at the mixed response. I guess people just don't see tking/wounding as that big of a deal.

its called watch where you are walking and not run circles around enemies that teammates are trying to kill or help you kill.  you learn very quickly where you shouldnt walk and also who is less careful with their swings.

and no, real servers running teamplay games dont run mirror dmg because its stupid.  only shitty pug servers with lazy admins run mirror damage because they are never there to admin the server and their playerbase are awful griefers.  its a shame you've not found well developed teamplay community servers in other games to be knowledgeable on this subject.

Here are 2 of my all time favorites
DoD: Source - 6th Ranger Battalion server
TF2 - ADK GoldRush/BadWater server
Title: Re: New Server Standard: 100% Team damage, 100% Reflect
Post by: Ylca on June 07, 2011, 08:32:19 pm
Yes, only terrible servers have multiple TKs every round. Which would, by logical progression mean that every CRPG server is a terrible server.
Title: Re: New Server Standard: 100% Team damage, 100% Reflect
Post by: DrKronic on June 08, 2011, 12:16:18 am
Reflect is horrible as it ruins gthe believability of combat and gives rise to abuse by griefers who purposely get in your way

If someone teamkills on purpose, they get dealt with, a lot of friendly fire occurs in war, if the average guy wasn't so greedy for a kill people would back off when five on ones occur, I know I do

This suggestion is horrible, detracts from the immersion and fun of the game or any game, 100 percent damage no reflect bring back monetary penalties for teamwounds and tks

Title: Re: New Server Standard: 100% Team damage, 100% Reflect
Post by: MouthnHoof on June 08, 2011, 10:08:21 am
The problem is that I do not know who team-wounded me. All I know is that there were only friendlies behind me and I got an arrow in the back. In melee, if I get hit be a team mate I know who he is and I can avoid him. I cannot avoid the ranged idiots who shoot me in the back.
Title: Re: New Server Standard: 100% Team damage, 100% Reflect
Post by: Classical on June 08, 2011, 10:57:13 am
Dev has spoken, so it's not going to happen.

Teamwounding and TKing will continue at their current rate, so back to the drawing board for other ideas.

I'm pretty surprised  at the mixed response. I guess people just don't see tking/wounding as that big of a deal.

It is a big deal, but everyone shouldn't be punished by the servers restrictions for people to learn team wounding and team killing is an element in the game to avoid. Often times people will juke around large crowds as they all side swing each other, because this is an element in the game. People need to learn to control their swings in order to win certain skirmishes, not have a mass hilarious genocide because reflection is on at fiftey percent.

You seem like you can't tell the difference between intentional team wounding and accidental (Also team killing, etc), that is enforced as a no, no, and people are usually kicked or warned when this happens. Don't turn on reflection to that extreme just to prevent intentional team wounding (Strip a way an entire element of some of the battles), this is a bad idea. Instead, try to come up with new ways to enforce an anti-intentional team wound, rather than punish everyone.

On a side note, the developer that spoke doesn't have any authority (As far as I know) over the server regulations (Other than don't exploit) of Ecko's unofficial servers, which are all the NA servers, minus TX_BATTLE and a couple others. This could easily be implemented if you make a better case for it, but apparently will not be implemented whatsoever on the EU servers (Official).
Title: Re: New Server Standard: 100% Team damage, 100% Reflect
Post by: Kafein on June 08, 2011, 11:03:19 am
The problem is that I do not know who team-wounded me. All I know is that there were only friendlies behind me and I got an arrow in the back. In melee, if I get hit be a team mate I know who he is and I can avoid him. I cannot avoid the ranged idiots who shoot me in the back.

This. A melee teamwounding or teamkilling is usually difficult to avoid (latency, high agi opponent...). But ranged teamwounding is both more dangerous (arrow stun = death in 90% of fights, melee teamwounding usually happens just after the enemy dies so it doesn't grief that much) and way easily avoided. Clever archers shoot somewhere else. Enemy archers, cav... troops that infantry usually can't reach before the enemy infantry is dead. Attacking infantry is usually a poor use of the range advantage, when there are other targets.
Title: Re: New Server Standard: 100% Team damage, 100% Reflect
Post by: HarunYahya on June 08, 2011, 11:09:11 am
So if you couch your teammate by accident,will you die on horse ?While he walks away ...
Capture this and put it on youtube .It will be one of the famous epic fail videos  :twisted:
Title: Re: New Server Standard: 100% Team damage, 100% Reflect
Post by: Tavuk_Bey on June 08, 2011, 11:21:21 am
yes
Title: Re: New Server Standard: 100% Team damage, 100% Reflect
Post by: Toffi on June 08, 2011, 01:21:45 pm
I guess it's because 100% is most realistic
Title: Re: New Server Standard: 100% Team damage, 100% Reflect
Post by: Momo on June 08, 2011, 01:49:00 pm
Horsebump should be reflective too, so you get the friendly bump dmg, but that dude gets it on his horse too  :twisted:.
Title: Re: New Server Standard: 100% Team damage, 100% Reflect
Post by: Peasant_Woman on June 08, 2011, 01:52:43 pm
Yes please. Too many times have I died because my team mate can't watch his swings or some archer fires carelessly into a tight melee. I miss the days where you lost gold for tk's, people were MUCH more careful back then.
Title: Re: New Server Standard: 100% Team damage, 100% Reflect
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on June 08, 2011, 02:36:33 pm
a big no from me. Reflective damage destroys the whole game experience and all the staggering and stumbling is just terrible. Like I said before, for me this would be a definite reason to stop playing this game.
Title: Re: New Server Standard: 100% Team damage, 100% Reflect
Post by: Gurnisson on June 08, 2011, 02:39:34 pm
Reflective damage is stupid and annoying. No from me.
Title: Re: New Server Standard: 100% Team damage, 100% Reflect
Post by: Momo on June 08, 2011, 02:40:11 pm
a big no from me. Reflective damage destroys the whole game experience and all the staggering and stumbling is just terrible. Like I said before, for me this would be a definite reason to stop playing this game.

You know, the friendly bumps, and a lots of fail cav/archer/2h/pole tks do the same. I don't mind if they destroy their own game experience, but leave mine alone.
Title: Re: New Server Standard: 100% Team damage, 100% Reflect
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on June 08, 2011, 02:52:37 pm
You know, the friendly bumps, and a lots of fail cav/archer/2h/pole tks do the same. I don't mind if they destroy their own game experience, but leave mine alone.
well, it is my experience that I talk of. I have to look at ten teammates dangling and wobling around (and dying without a weapon touching them) while trying to hit one enemy. I rather look upon ten teammates killing each other.

Title: Re: New Server Standard: 100% Team damage, 100% Reflect
Post by: Ylca on June 08, 2011, 03:34:20 pm
I'm not sure why this thread is still going, a dev has already said it's not going to happen. What's left to discuss?
Title: Re: New Server Standard: 100% Team damage, 100% Reflect
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on June 08, 2011, 03:47:39 pm
Discussed over 9000 times. Not gonna happen on official servers.
oh cool, didn't read it before. Good, one can rely on you, devs! :)
Title: Re: New Server Standard: 100% Team damage, 100% Reflect
Post by: Tears of Destiny on June 08, 2011, 08:06:59 pm
I'm not sure why this thread is still going, a dev has already said it's not going to happen. What's left to discuss?

OP can lock thread.
Title: Re: New Server Standard: 100% Team damage, 100% Reflect
Post by: DrKronic on June 08, 2011, 09:01:53 pm
Lets beat this faildea into the ground, btw reviewing my past weeks tks and especially teamwounds account for a good deal of my deaths

Even with that fact still this would suck, I remember a big reason I didn't play on that the fallen server was it had reflect
Title: Re: New Server Standard: 100% Team damage, 100% Reflect
Post by: Classical on June 09, 2011, 01:46:45 am
I'm not sure why this thread is still going, a dev has already said it's not going to happen. What's left to discuss?

On a side note, the developer that spoke doesn't have any authority (As far as I know) over the server regulations (Other than don't exploit) of Ecko's unofficial servers, which are all the NA servers, minus TX_BATTLE and a couple others. This could easily be implemented if you make a better case for it, but apparently will not be implemented whatsoever on the EU servers (Official).
Title: Re: New Server Standard: 100% Team damage, 100% Reflect
Post by: MouthnHoof on June 09, 2011, 10:15:34 am
Even with that fact still this would suck, I remember a big reason I didn't play on that the fallen server was it had reflect
a big no from me. Reflective damage destroys the whole game experience and all the staggering and stumbling is just terrible. Like I said before, for me this would be a definite reason to stop playing this game.
Staggering and stumbling happens just as much in reflective and non-reflective cases, the only difference is who is doing the staggering. So basically you say that you hit a lot of friendlies and if the damage was reflective this would ruin your game experience. Hmmm, interesting.
Title: Re: New Server Standard: 100% Team damage, 100% Reflect
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on June 09, 2011, 08:25:25 pm
Staggering and stumbling happens just as much in reflective and non-reflective cases, the only difference is who is doing the staggering. So basically you say that you hit a lot of friendlies and if the damage was reflective this would ruin your game experience. Hmmm, interesting.
if remember correctly both the hit and the hitting one staggers when reflective is on, no? could be wrong, though.
However to be honest I can't exactly remember and determine the reasons why reflective damage makes the game feel so horrible, but it does. I recently played on a native server with it, and it is just ... horrible. Maybe its only because I see people dying magically or people behave differently, dunno exactly.
Title: Re: New Server Standard: 100% Team damage, 100% Reflect
Post by: Armbrust_Schtze on June 10, 2011, 10:30:25 am
reflective fire sucks if u dont remember anymore.. -,-