cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Miley on June 01, 2011, 01:07:34 am
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So, most of you hate horse archers, right? And not many people use War Bow, right (partly because of the skin)? I think one of the factors that caused a massive increase in horse archers is that the War Bow (changed look) and was changed to two slots.
The War Bow does more damage than the Strong Bow, and it's slower and less accurate (due to the increased requirement of Power Draw). Since people may want a melee weapon that's not a hatchet or a hammer, they went with Strong Bow. BUT, "Hey I have a Strong Bow, hmm... I could go HORSE ARCHER."
Sorry, I'm bad at explaining things, but I really think it would be a fair and balanced idea to move the War Bow back to taking one slot only. It does cut damage just like the other bows, and Long Bow does pierce.
What do you guys think?
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I agree that the 1 slot strong bow is a strong reason why we have so many HA, but I think you're going about reducing the influx of HA the wrong way.
Make Khergit and Strong bow both 2 slots, and increase the damage on the warbow by 2. Foot bowmen become more attractive, mounted ones become less attractive.
Alternatively, a new 1 slot bow that cannot be used on horseback could be another option.
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I agree that the 1 slot strong bow is a strong reason why we have so many HA, but I think you're going about reducing the influx of HA the wrong way.
Make Khergit and Strong bow both 2 slots, and increase the damage on the warbow by 2. Foot bowmen become more attractive, mounted ones become less attractive.
Alternatively, a new 1 slot bow that cannot be used on horseback could be another option.
That would be changing two bows that wouldn't ever have taken two slots each to two slots. My idea only changes an arguably two slot bow into just one slot.
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Is this because of the epic horde of HA's earlier today? If so, there really isn't a problem. I'm sure it was more a matter of "Hey, there are two HA's on my team, and I have a HA alt... Let's make this lulzy!" That's certainly what I was thinking, when I switched to my HA alt and began making my enemies rage.
Otherwise I really don't see any sort of HA problem. Perhaps I do not play enough.
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The easiest solution is to CD key ban and delete the characters of all those who place points in HA skill or have done in the past.
Thoughts/Suggestions welcome.
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Is this because of the epic horde of HA's earlier today? If so, there really isn't a problem. I'm sure it was more a matter of "Hey, there are two HA's on my team, and I have a HA alt... Let's make this lulzy!" That's certainly what I was thinking, when I switched to my HA alt and began making my enemies rage.
Otherwise I really don't see any sort of HA problem. Perhaps I do not play enough.
I don't have a problem with horse archers, but a lot of other people do. It's not beacuse of hordes of them that I made this suggestion. I just want to use a weapon when I use my War Bow, and I thought it would be fair if it was one slot.
I actually don't mind the increasing numbers of horse archers, because most of them suck. But a lot of other people would appreciate it if they'd decrease in numbers, and they'd stop (less) QQing.
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Seriously? An influx of HA? :lol:
99.9% of the time there's rarely more than 2HA on a team. Often there's only 1 per team.
However, I am for the Warbow taking 1 slot. Either that or change it to pierce damage. Personally I don't think 4 extra cut damage is enough to mean it's two slots, especially when it is slower over all.
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I think that what you said has nothing to do with the amount of HAs...Horse archery is a hard proffesion, very hard, most people suck at it...a lot of HA are more of mounted archers (move -> stop -> shoot -> move -> stop -> shoot --and so on) and in my opinion, this are very easy targets for other ranged player, so let them come :D
As for the warbow, you get 1+ accuracy and +2 missile speed. +2 missile speed makes a big difference imo...
If anything I would increase cut to 30 - that way you can give up a longbow for faster kills for low-mid tier players
The good thing (also bad in a way - lack of choice lookswise) about archery is that the top three bows can be effective as foot archers, you dont have to have longbow if you dont like warbow, you can still have PD6, have a strongbow, do more damage and hold your crosshair for longer...
P.S: Why wouldnt you want to have that lovely pierce damage from a longbow anyway???
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Seriously? An influx of HA? :lol:
99.9% of the time there's rarely more than 2HA on a team. Often there's only 1 per team.
Overdriven has said it all. Once there were 3 HAs for two teams. Some ground pounder immediately started complaining about the increase in HAs. It was ridiculous. I almost never see more than 2 HAs per team, but for 2 handers who refuse to bring a shield, 3 HA for 2 teams (total of60-70 people in server) is apparently 3 HA too many. I do keep track of number of HA, since a HA is a priority target. Why don't anyone complain about the massive numbers of 2 hands and polearms? Obviously because they are the polearms/2 handers.
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You guys make conspirations about Horse Archers that Göbbels would beg for the recipe of these ideas x)
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The easiest solution is to CD key ban and delete the characters of all those who place points in HA skill or have done in the past.
Thoughts/Suggestions welcome.
This is the most straightforward solution and would obviously increase the overall happiness of players :mrgreen:
Overdriven has said it all. Once there were 3 HAs for two teams. Some ground pounder immediately started complaining about the increase in HAs. It was ridiculous. I almost never see more than 2 HAs per team, but for 2 handers who refuse to bring a shield, 3 HA for 2 teams (total of60-70 people in server) is apparently 3 HA too many. I do keep track of number of HA, since a HA is a priority target. Why don't anyone complain about the massive numbers of 2 hands and polearms? Obviously because they are the polearms/2 handers.
Well, that's exactly why it's evident there's a problem with HA's, people wouldn't complain about it otherwise, einstein.
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I think that what you said has nothing to do with the amount of HAs...Horse archery is a hard proffesion, very hard, most people suck at it...a lot of HA are more of mounted archers (move -> stop -> shoot -> move -> stop -> shoot --and so on) and in my opinion, this are very easy targets for other ranged player, so let them come :D
As for the warbow, you get 1+ accuracy and +2 missile speed. +2 missile speed makes a big difference imo...
If anything I would increase cut to 30 - that way you can give up a longbow for faster kills for low-mid tier players
The good thing (also bad in a way - lack of choice lookswise) about archery is that the top three bows can be effective as foot archers, you dont have to have longbow if you dont like warbow, you can still have PD6, have a strongbow, do more damage and hold your crosshair for longer...
P.S: Why wouldnt you want to have that lovely pierce damage from a longbow anyway???
You obviously didn't read what I have previously posted.
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The easiest solution is to CD key ban and delete the characters of all those who place points in HA skill or have done in the past.
Thoughts/Suggestions welcome.
I can agree to that, it seems a totally fair, balanced and agreeable solution
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Have you guys ever played as an HA? I guess not. Maybe go try it before you condemn it.
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Have you guys ever played as an HA? I guess not. Maybe go try it before you condemn it.
Yes. I was half horse archer pre pre pre patch (the one without this new exp system). I also have a horse archer now.
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I need a new CD key to try all this crap out
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A player running around with a warbow is more of a threat than 90% of the horse archers out there. I kind of like the horse archers riding around, it gives me something to aim at because most of them ride directly towards you to try and bump shoot you and you just jump and release, nice clean kill.
But anyway, the war bow is much more of a threat to me, even unskilled enemies whether or not they trot around on a horse or not, a foot archer is more of a threat to me due to the higher damage and generally more erratic movement style than someone who has to control a horse and has lower damage.
I am fully against this, i'd rather Horse Archers than foot archers, and if you make the warbow 1 slow, make the longbow 1 slot, i'm not about to allow myself to get slaughtered by someone with a longsword/katana just to reduce the number of Horse Archers...
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i think HA's are the biggest treat to cav. because HA's can have a courser or arab to keep up with the cav and it may take 10 arrows but the HA will get you even if he is a really bad aimer. that is what couses my hate towards HA's. if your infanterie you can take a shield or have your friends cover you. but as a cav, you can't run, you can't hide, and you can try to take him out but i usually get de-horsed anyway.
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remove all bows, and then the problem will be solved 8-)
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make strongbow 2 slot instead :mrgreen:
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A player running around with a warbow is more of a threat than 90% of the horse archers out there. I kind of like the horse archers riding around, it gives me something to aim at because most of them ride directly towards you to try and bump shoot you and you just jump and release, nice clean kill.
But anyway, the war bow is much more of a threat to me, even unskilled enemies whether or not they trot around on a horse or not, a foot archer is more of a threat to me due to the higher damage and generally more erratic movement style than someone who has to control a horse and has lower damage.
I am fully against this, i'd rather Horse Archers than foot archers, and if you make the warbow 1 slow, make the longbow 1 slot, i'm not about to allow myself to get slaughtered by someone with a longsword/katana just to reduce the number of Horse Archers...
I said make the War Bow one slot, not the Long Bow.
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you can hierloom strongbow and it is same as warbow but half the slots. make warbow 1 slot imo.
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you can hierloom strongbow and it is same as warbow but half the slots. make warbow 1 slot imo.
but than tha longbow should get a buff imo
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I think that what you said has nothing to do with the amount of HAs...Horse archery is a hard proffesion, very hard, most people suck at it...
This is true ur not a good HA before u reach lvl 28-30 depends what ur aiming for, if ur going for 5 Pd and 4 Ha u need to get to lvl 30 to get a decent HA build!
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The problem with HA's is that all classes that lack a ranged weapon are not able at all to kill the HA. However, all other classes are able to kill eachother, its only a matter of skill. With the HA its not. If you lack a ranged weapon, you can never kill the HA. Never. It is impossible. Completely impossible.
Did everyone understand that now? If one team has 10 people without ranged weapons, and the other one is just one HA, the HA will win if he has enugh arrows. And that brings us to the weakness of the HA. HA's can be taken down by archers, other HA's and the lack of arrows. Most HA's use strongbow and 3 quivers of arrows. If the strongbow and khergit bow was increased in slot to 2, it would make the HA's a lot easier to kill, since then one only has to dodge 2 quivers of arrows before you can kill him/her. (still a LOT of dodging just to be able to kill someone though) and then the HA can still keep dumping you with his horse untill you die, I've seen it, they are truly that dishonourable)
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i think HA's are the biggest treat to cav. because HA's can have a courser or arab to keep up with the cav and it may take 10 arrows but the HA will get you even if he is a really bad aimer. that is what couses my hate towards HA's. if your infanterie you can take a shield or have your friends cover you. but as a cav, you can't run, you can't hide, and you can try to take him out but i usually get de-horsed anyway.
1 on 1, a horse archer will almost always beat melee cav, or at least will lose their horse to his arrows. And that is exactly how it should be. HAs are the natural counter to melee cavalry. It should be noted that HAs are susceptible, like all classes, to teamwork and coordination. Two melee cav can trap a HA to his death fairly easily given proper teamwork and awareness, which, really, is what this game is about.
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1 on 1, a horse archer will almost always beat melee cav, or at least will lose their horse to his arrows. And that is exactly how it should be. HAs are the natural counter to melee cavalry. It should be noted that HAs are susceptible, like all classes, to teamwork and coordination. Two melee cav can trap a HA to his death fairly easily given proper teamwork and awareness, which, really, is what this game is about.
untrue except when your in TS with eachother and bothe have horses that can take more than 4 arrows and can keep up with the HA, not
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If the Strong Bow would get 2 slots then with the rest 30-34 ( 15-17) arrows the Horse Archers would do the same.
I usually shoot all lancers or their horses out and I still have 10- 12 arrows in the end.
So it would not change a lot.
Greetings,
GK_HentziTHeHUn
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If the Strong Bow would get 2 slots then with the rest 30-34 ( 15-17) arrows the Horse Archers would do the same.
I usually shoot all lancers or their horses out and I still have 10- 12 arrows in the end.
So it would not change a lot.
Greetings,
GK_HentziTHeHUn
what is your HA skill?!
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HA's are fine because....
You need to invest a lot of skills to shoot the bow accurately (4 Horse Archery - 24 Agility)
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Dedicated range can easily kill them.
A longbowmen can 1-2 shot a HA's horse, then they become a light archer.
This remains true to historical weaknesses of horse archers and remains true in the game.
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I don't care about the war bow, it gives a bad feeling. If you've got 6 PD, just go for longbow.
What i mourn everyday, is that foot archers with 5 PD (agi build) are less interesting than HA build or 6 PD build.
I would really appreciate seing a 5 PD bow, with better stats than strongbow AND Not usable on horseback
or make the strongbow not usable on horseback and add another 5 PD weaker than the strongbow but available on horseback.
The way it is, it really forces archers to go either HA or Longbow. I understand that none uses the hunting bow, but what's the point of having a warbow, and what's the point of making a footarcher with 5 PD.
And all thoses people saying "it's easy to kill an ha horse and then kill the archer" really should consider what they call easy. It's certainly as "easy" as headshotting in close-mid distance an aware ninja. It happens, you need at least 6 arrows for it. But against HA, you ALSO need to move not to die. Specially when both you and he have the same MW strongbow.
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HA's are fine because....
You need to invest a lot of skills to shoot the bow accurately (4 Horse Archery - 24 Agility)
AND
Dedicated range can easily kill them.
A longbowmen can 1-2 shot a HA's horse, then they become a light archer.
This remains true to historical weaknesses of horse archers and remains true in the game.
but a decent HA avoids ranged warriors and so getting his horse killid while he kills every freaking horse in the game :evil: :evil: :evil:!!!!!
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but a decent HA avoids ranged warriors and so getting his horse killid while he kills every freaking horse in the game :evil: :evil: :evil:!!!!!
And a decent cav will avoid HA's or at least lure them into range of his teams ranged units.
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And a decent cav will avoid HA's or at least lure them into range of his teams ranged units.
"his teams ranged units" usually seem not able to shoot the HA, or simply don't care. That's not their problem, afterall. Really, that's a bit stupid to have a class that can only be followed and killed by... another char of that same class :rolleyes:
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Sigh...making the strongbow 2 slots is simply silly. It's a weak bow.
HA's are designed to take down enemy cavalry. It's a hell of a lot harder to shoot infantry, so enemy cavalry is the natural choice. Besides, it takes a pure dedicated HA build to actually sucessfully be HA. That's a lot of dedicated points that means you're pretty crap in any other capacity.
If cavalry goes off and charges on it's own (say towards afk players at spawn), then you are going to get shot down because HA will hunt you. If cav was sensible and supported your infantry, rather than being lone heroes, then it wouldn't happen. If you want to go off on your own and hunt people, you've got to deal with the consequences if you see HA around.
HA don't get points for shooting horses down. We do it because enemy cav are rather effective at reducing a teams chance to win...therefore it's our impreative to shoot down your horse (plus there's a sadistic pleasure in shooting down lancers horses...you can almost hear the screams of rage :twisted:). Unfortunately for you, horse archers are kinda there to be annoying. It takes a lot of dedication, arrows and skill to get a high amount of kills. So instead, it is far easier to simply be a nuisance and take out enemy horses because they are the ones doing a lot of killing. It's one of the reasons I support some kind of assist system.
Horses however, are easy to hit regardless. Making the strongbow 2 slots wouldn't make a difference to horses being shot down. 15 arrows (if bodkin). It takes a maximum of 4 arrows. Horses are big targets. You do the math.
Besides...because HA is such a dedicated build, you rarely see them as it is. There's no point changing a bow just to try and nerf a few guys who actually play it. When you do see them, maybe you should change tactics to increase your surviveability (rather than trying to charge off as cav on your own).
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If cavalry goes off and charges on it's own (say towards afk players at spawn), then you are going to get shot down because HA will hunt you. If cav was sensible and supported your infantry, rather than being lone heroes, then it wouldn't happen. If you want to go off on your own and hunt people, you've got to deal with the consequences if you see HA around.
This is what I'm saying, man. +1
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And a decent cav will avoid HA's or at least lure them into range of his teams ranged units.
i always try that but: the HA can keep up with me and, the HA kills my horse before i reach my friends and if i would, they'd still have to aim, shoot and hit, so not really a good tactic, unless you don't have any other anti-HA tactics...
can you guys name some anti-HA tactics? just for everyone who isn't HA and then the HA's can say what they would do against it :)
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Make the strong bow unusable on horseback. Foot archers get their 5 pd 1 slot bow and agi-accuracy build. Horse archers are slightly less attractive when left to use the khergit bow. Problem solved? I haven't been an archer in a long time so I'm not certain how fair this would be.
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Make the Strong Bow unusable on horseback? You want to make this mod even more unrealistic?
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Make the Strong Bow unusable on horseback? You want to make this mod even more unrealistic?
Realistic ? How will that make it unrealistic, and since when do we care so much about realism ?
Anyway, PD 5 is a viable build for HA, so two possibilities :
-Add a 5 PD bow unusable on horseback, with slighty better stats than the strongbow, so that footarchers build at 5 PD arn't forced to go HA, or go 6 PD.
-Add a 5 PD bow usable on horseback, with slightly less interesting stats than strongbow, and make strongbow unusable on horseback.
The way it is, every 5 PD archer build is more effective with 3 less PS and Ath, and 3 more riding and horse archery. Makes all foot archers go 6 PD and use a longbow (since it's better to kill everything).
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i always try that but: the HA can keep up with me and, the HA kills my horse before i reach my friends and if i would, they'd still have to aim, shoot and hit, so not really a good tactic, unless you don't have any other anti-HA tactics...
can you guys name some anti-HA tactics? just for everyone who isn't HA and then the HA's can say what they would do against it :)
I don't know if you noticed or not, but you SPAWN with your friends. You are conveniently leaving out the part where you are trying to spawn rush the afk'ers for easy kills. :lol:
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I'm saying having a small bow such as the Strong Bow take two slots is unrealistic.
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I said make the War Bow one slot, not the Long Bow.
Read the post properly. I was talking about the war bow and merely stated that if you make the war bow one slot, make the longbow one slot too, although I said slow the first time round. Please read more carefully about what I wrote...
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DO NOT MESS with the bows anymore, especially with Strong Bow, leave it 1 slot please
I have an alt: Foot Archer + Two handed + Thrower
I use to happily play equiping:
strong bow
bodkin arrow
two handed sword
javelins
then the slot system came in and had to choose between being an archer or being a swordsman with javelins and you people messed with the javelins too, made them 2 slots and only 3 ammo count now I'm fine with that, I adapted to the main 3 scenarios with those limitations, bow + 2h sword, bow + javelins, 2h sword + javelins
It's sad how lolpoles affect the course of cRPG, whose crpg experience and gameplay is all about running, swinging and hacking away dressed in plated armour without even blocking and don't wanting to deal with archers or any other ranged units