but this is barely evidence towards it being OP.
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again, that doesn't work. also it should be "acquire a blocking device AND spend some skill points on shield skill"; which is basically saying "don't play the class you'd like to, change to the only one that is a viable counter (it's not really) to ranged, then enjoy the game :) the way we think you should"
Several shields were made 0 difficulty. I got one myself I quite like it.
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Several shields were made 0 difficulty. I got one myself I quite like it.
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I might stop 1 arrow
the only one that is a viable counter (it's not really) to ranged
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Normal people reaction: "damn, that guy is good"
Haters reaction: "nerf ranged"
I have said it plenty of times, the problem with ranged is their numbers, not their power.
2 archers can be dealt with, 5 on the other hand, not.
I honestly don't think range is OP currently. There I said it.
What is OP, however, is the number of people that utilize it.
look here nerds. i genuinely think that the issue is NOT the MAP or the amount of RANGED on a single team OR the OPness of archers as much as it is about the PURE QUANTITY OF RANGED PLAYERS.
Honestly the real problem EU has with ranged isn't that a single archer or xbower is over powered, it's that half of the EU player base chooses to be ranged.
Honestly the real problem EU has with ranged isn't that a single archer or xbower is over powered, it's that half of the EU player base chooses to be ranged. We have the exact same weapons here in NA but lack this epidemic of ranged players, so the real question becomes "what makes the NA players mindset and moral character so superior to the average europer".(click to show/hide)
Incidentally we really need a working hack detection system back, as currently any chump as wants to can download any amount of skill they desire.
i disgrace myself with this photoYou bastard.(click to show/hide)
My char is 1h/shield AND xbow.
As a shield user, a shield is absolutely helpful against ranged. Almost OP. It, like, blocks the arrow.
As a ranged user, shields absolutely block my shit. Seeing one makes me choose a different target, or waste my bolt shooting a piece of wood.
If you can afford IF in your build, you can afford a decent shield in your build.
If you don't put IF or shield skill in your build, you're asking to die regardless.
firstly, fuck you for playing ranged. secondly, by saying that seeing a shield makes you decide to focusson ur playing on NA, toping and surviving on this server is so ez even with monitor off, playing with legs, faping with one hand and smoking weed in other :) plz stahp with your golden advices
U LIEK THAT LOGIC???
https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,373023.0.html (https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,373023.0.html) :mrgreen:
son ur playing on NA, toping and surviving on this server is so ez even with monitor off, playing with legs, faping with one hand and smoking weed in other :) plz stahp with your golden advices
visitors can't see pics , please register or loginhah good one but now its more like this:(click to show/hide)
Several shields were made 0 difficulty. I got one myself I quite like it.
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Wouldve been nice to see what kind of situation they were in to get headshot so easily. It doesnt mean much if they were unshielded in the open, or completely unaware of the archer.
hah good one but now its more like this:
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yes, but from my experience as a longtime shielder is that if you have no block skill you will def get hit around it.Literally never seen u play a shielder. Fake news.
Remove ranged, remove cav, remove melee combat. Perfect game. Let us rejoice and play peaceful resource gathering RPG.
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by all the current hysteria I wonder how a patch would turn out where all ranged weapons were just nerfed into oblivion
just to see if the mod is more enjoyable without any ranged at all
You know how people say, ranged - get shield?
They don't say, cavalry - get pike? Because literally anything can kill horses, including mid-combat. It is easy for an agi 2h to deject from the fight they're in, to stab a horse coming from their rear / block down.
Cav is not hard countered by infantry unless infantry completely bunkers up. I'm fairly certain if there are statistics on class effectiveness, cav would have quite a higher average k/d and damage deal than any other class. Not to mention how much a bump changes a fight.
You would not have say this if you played cav on different warband mods.
On cRPG, bumpslash damages are heavily reduced, while it isn't on other multiplayer mods ; lance can only be used to attack towards the front direction, while on other mods you can turn 180° while attacking. In addition to that, the high number of ranged of all types doesn't help when it comes to support the team and do some kills in general, because the horse armor value doesn't follow the huge amount of damages delivered by arrows/bolts/throwing weapons (it's true on Strategus battles, it is even more true on EU1, it only requires 5 bodkin arrows to take down my +3 plated charger, bs imo).
About bump effectiveness, it can be temperated if we consider that cRPG is the only warband multiplayer mod to give footman players the ability to make a roll on left/right so you don't get ganked if you pay attention to the game.
So please, don't tell me cavalry cannot be countered easily on cRPG, if it was that good, you would be able to see way more players actually playing that class. From my own warband experience I can tell that cav is way more stronger on ALL other mods, and it doesn't really bother the players.
What percentage of the overall kills would be acceptable for ranged to have? 15%? 20%?
What is the perceived percentage of ranged kills at the moment?
~10%. I rarely see ranged doing anywhere near as well as melee
Pretty good guess. I think it's 11% now.
In order to play cRPG people must first be forced to play 500 hours of native. People will then learn that shields are capable of blocking arrows. People will then understand that shields are useful. People will then stop crying about ranged, every 2 seconds.
0 difficulty: Throwing daggers, snowflakes, shurikans
i put this exact suggestino in suggestion corner stop ripping me off. Just like i said buff shields and when panos says it u all upvote him iw ant recogntiitontiotnotn
just read your post didn't see it before. perhaps try a more constructive tone in your threads to gain traction :P
I didn't post to try to gain credit for a suggestion, you can have all the recognition and glory? you want if they make the changes ^^ I am sure you will feel warm and fuzzy inside
See you on monday cikel
problem with that is people want to try things that are not role playing native inf.
big differences though, native inf can carry shields and throwing weapons without being gimped in melee, if you build a char that can throw at archers, stop cav and block arrows in crpg you are going to get rekt by everyone else, thats if you can even catch a crossbower :p and native cav have the tools to take on archers, crpg cav cant really bump slash/stab very well and cant circle and stab at archers.
Archers can be a problem because of the numbers of them, and the numbers can be a problem due to inf/cav inability to deal with them easily. Archers can camp on a roof (which a lot of maps have perfect camp spots) and your average inf has little to no way to really do much to them.
The shield skill reduction is very nice and will work once people figure out they have to aim their shields up or down (i assume you can still do that in crpg ^^) The next step is some simple throwing or to un nerf cav :D
My Suggestion
The 0 skill throwing lances are great for a first volly or anti cav but i would like to see one of or all of the following reduced to 0 difficulty: Darts, War Darts, Throwing daggers, snowflakes, shurikans, With no power throw and no wpf they will be pretty inaccurate and deal limited damage to archers who are high str and a little more damage maybe to agi xbowers.
This wont make throwing OP as most of these hits would be at most annoying and probably bounce off high armour inf but it will help move archers from encamped positions, instead of 5-10 inf walking slowly with or without shields there may be 5-10 inf walking and throwing low damage projectiles that can stun, this will force archers away from stupid open spots like rooftops where they can fire with ease and into firing spots that are better for lower numbers of ranged. Towers and doorways etc give archers spots that are just as good but you cant put 5 of them up there firing at the same time like with a roof.
tl:dr with pew pew! problem is mainly the maps and most maps having easily reached from one side pew pew spots that end up with lots of pew pew on. melee having baby pew pew will make bigger pew pew spread out a little bit so the pew pew will be more pew pew and less pew pew pew pew pew pew with massed spots
Do you have server statistics? I remember cmp posting them before, and they were quite interesting to analyze
problem with that is people want to try things that are not role playing native inf.
big differences though, native inf can carry shields and throwing weapons without being gimped in melee, if you build a char that can throw at archers, stop cav and block arrows in crpg you are going to get rekt by everyone else, thats if you can even catch a crossbower :p and native cav have the tools to take on archers, crpg cav cant really bump slash/stab very well and cant circle and stab at archers.
Archers can be a problem because of the numbers of them, and the numbers can be a problem due to inf/cav inability to deal with them easily. Archers can camp on a roof (which a lot of maps have perfect camp spots) and your average inf has little to no way to really do much to them.
The shield skill reduction is very nice and will work once people figure out they have to aim their shields up or down (i assume you can still do that in crpg ^^) The next step is some simple throwing or to un nerf cav :D
My Suggestion
The 0 skill throwing lances are great for a first volly or anti cav but i would like to see one of or all of the following reduced to 0 difficulty: Darts, War Darts, Throwing daggers, snowflakes, shurikans, With no power throw and no wpf they will be pretty inaccurate and deal limited damage to archers who are high str and a little more damage maybe to agi xbowers.
This wont make throwing OP as most of these hits would be at most annoying and probably bounce off high armour inf but it will help move archers from encamped positions, instead of 5-10 inf walking slowly with or without shields there may be 5-10 inf walking and throwing low damage projectiles that can stun, this will force archers away from stupid open spots like rooftops where they can fire with ease and into firing spots that are better for lower numbers of ranged. Towers and doorways etc give archers spots that are just as good but you cant put 5 of them up there firing at the same time like with a roof.
tl:dr with pew pew! problem is mainly the maps and most maps having easily reached from one side pew pew spots that end up with lots of pew pew on. melee having baby pew pew will make bigger pew pew spread out a little bit so the pew pew will be more pew pew and less pew pew pew pew pew pew with massed spots
you try to melee them off of horseback and they just circle your horse and stay in your melee "blind spots" where you can't hit them. the turn rate on horses is atrocious. a fully stopped horse should be able to turn very quickly. horses should only be affected by their maneuver statistic at higher speeds. it just makes no sense that an archer can outcircle your horses turnrate
So what you are saying is we need a horse rear hoof kick that knocks down people behind the horse and deals damage.
So what you are saying is we need a horse rear hoof kick that knocks down people behind the horse and deals damage.
i agree with a lot of that and something particular was how you mentioned cav's inability to deal with archers
--- cavs inability to deal with archers --- like really? cavalry in pretty much all medieval video games is used to attack light infantry and archers. while i know cRPG isn't total war attila or whatever, the point remains that archers have far to much power over cavalry
specifics: my +3 destrier can easily get 1 shot by str archers and heavyxbow/arbs if im charging them. it's really ridiculous how weak and non-durable all horses apart from like the plated charger really are. as if cavalry doesn't have enough trouble dealing with any infantryman with half a brain on how to counter cav, they can't even pick of the enemies holding bows and crossbows.
secondly, when you close the distance on an archer while charging them and you miss your swing or get shot/interrupted, you have two choices: keep riding past and hope they dont shoot you and finish you/your horse off, or you can stop your horse and try to melee them/dismount. if you dismount, they run away. you can't catch them since you probably don't have much athletics. you try to melee them off of horseback and they just circle your horse and stay in your melee "blind spots" where you can't hit them. the turn rate on horses is atrocious. a fully stopped horse should be able to turn very quickly. horses should only be affected by their maneuver statistic at higher speeds. it just makes no sense that an archer can outcircle your horses turnrate
Tbh the ability to twirl and change direction with an arrow drawn makes it difficult for even cav to take out a decent archer, ducking, changing direction, twirling, all while drawing and firing arrows. Even worse when any kind of object is present for the archer to twirl around firing arrows, cav stand little chance at taking out what should be their easiest targets in many scenarios, it's only bad unaware archers that get back stabbed without reaction. Sadly that is something that extends to the engine and game itself, it would be difficult to balance without butchering archers.
if people at least would have the dignity to not play ranged when there's 10- people on the serverAnd if people would also not play cav on a 10 or lower people server
that'd be great and wouldn't kill the mod
Do people really quit crpg when there is alot of ranged to go play pubg? Do they get mad about ranged and go play an all range game? Why wouldn't they just play range here then?
Mainly because if they wanted to play a shooting game, they go play a game that is pretty much strictly shooting. I think most people play CRPG for a decent mix of classes and not just having half of each team as archers/xbows.
Mainly because if they wanted to play a shooting game, they go play a game that is pretty much strictly shooting. I think most people play CRPG for a decent mix of classes and not just having half of each team as archers/xbows.
Isnt a 50/50 divide a decent mix?
Doubt I've ever seen above 40% ranged
Not when you then factor in throwers and it starts feeling like 3 out of 4 players have some kind of ranged weapon at times lol. Even 2 out of 3 is enough to create a cancerous atmosphere on a lot of the maps.
I can guarantee that in the past two weeks I have seen it above even 60% several times if you include throwers too. Some people come on, play one round as Melee and GTFO because they can't be fucked to deal with that shit. So the server struggles to hold a melee pop, while the ranged stays. I even respecced away from HA to try reduce the amount of ranged, but tbh the amount of ranged playing some times, just makes me want to respec back to HA just so I can fucking shoot them.
I just don't think that's correct, i usually see more 2h alone than ranged, nvm melee in general
You can think what you like, but like I said there were several times in the past two weeks where I joined EU1 and over half the players were ranged builds, I didn't just "think" that, I saw it. I am not saying that this is happening all of the time, but I am saying it's happening more than it should and people aren't bothering to even come and look any more because they're tired of being shot from 4 different directions where "git a shield" doesn't make a difference.
me:no plz dont come back the last thing we need is yet another archer to infest and ruin c-rpg
comes back to have a look at the forums after 2 years, nostalghia much.
Sees still the exact same whining going on. :rolleyes:
ROFL
Good to see you old farts are still at it, guess I have to re-install and dust off that ancient longbow of mine... :mrgreen:
Doubt I've ever seen above 40% ranged
me:
comes back to have a look at the forums after 2 years, nostalghia much.
Sees still the exact same whining going on. :rolleyes:
ROFL
Good to see you old farts are still at it, guess I have to re-install and dust off that ancient longbow of mine... :mrgreen:
People have a right to play ranged, others have the right not to play at all.top meme
Have fun ranged guys in the 10 vs 10 not very good first person shooter game.
me:
comes back to have a look at the forums after 2 years, nostalghia much.
Sees still the exact same whining going on. :rolleyes:
ROFL
Good to see you old farts are still at it, guess I have to re-install and dust off that ancient longbow of mine... :mrgreen:
You can think what you like, but like I said there were several times in the past two weeks where I joined EU1 and over half the players were ranged builds, I didn't just "think" that, I saw it. I am not saying that this is happening all of the time, but I am saying it's happening more than it should and people aren't bothering to even come and look any more because they're tired of being shot from 4 different directions where "git a shield" doesn't make a difference.
Get a shield only makes a difference if you know how to use it
Shield is a good counter to Archers, but not to Xbow.
Archers have to sacrifice melee and movement to do ranged damage, which in the end still ends up to be less dmg than xbows.
Xbow can flank and kite you with 9 athletics, and still be proficient and deadly in melee while doing the highest range damage in the game. They can even wear heavy armor and 1 shot snipe you across the map. There are no drawbacks with this OP class.
We all know why Xbowers won't get nerfed because that's all the balancers play. If it wasn't OP people wouldn't be playing it as much as they do now, it's that simple.
tl;dr - nerf archery and throwing, crossbow has been nerfed enough.
I hardly see any throwers, it would be absolutely dumb to nerf them. Archery already has severe drawbacks of no mobility or melee capability. Xbow Damage is still way higher than any of them despite being able to kite and do very good melee damage. 2H cut has been nerfed and armor soak changed again so Xbow is still the highest damage, and has the least amount of drawbacks. It's stronger than old Agi Archers ever were .
Get a shield only makes a difference if you know how to use it
Xbows do more damage on a per shot basis, but archery can do more damage in a second. Most builds let you get ~3 shots off with a high str archery build which will end up outputing more damage than an arb. I don't have exact numbers off the top of my head but I could probably get them if I want, they are in one of the other thousand range rage thread. Dispell this retarded notion of "xbows do more damage than bows and throwing" because its only true if you refuse to look at the whole picture
And it doesn't matter how well you use it, if you're being shot at from more than one direction by any decent archer or xbow player ( yes not just some random nub who don't time their shots well ), they stand a good chance at hitting you. I mean honestly mate barely anyone is playing again now, the most I have seen is 20-30 which was last week and a ton of those were ranged, which just puts some people off as soon as they join the server and see that it's a ranged fest, I see people write it in chat and they just leave. Can I deal with it personally? yeah sure, I even play without a shield on my Horse and I get hard ons when I backstab ranged players, but when I look at EU1 and it's pretty much dead 24/7, I can't even be bothered to join knowing half or more of the few players are probably just playing medieval counter strike.
Sounds like the main problem with the game is that the cRPG community doesn't like cRPG/is too stubborn to counter ranged and RQ instead
I get shot from 2 directions all the time, and i rarely die from ranged compared to deaths in melee. Missile travel time is so slow in cRPG that you can just look behind you and catch his arrow on your shield when he shoots
Just add the muskets and guns at this point, it's better than some poor soul believing the "just get a shield" meme and getting kited by horse archers and marathon runner arb players and rage quitting.
I actually go to napoleonic wars mod now if I want a good melee fight, I actually get killed by range less there and EVERYONE has a fucking gun.
arbalest is not the most damaging weapon in the game. With 5 ps most mid to high tier melee weapons will out damage arbalest. High tier throwing out damages arbalest and 10 pd archers are just slightly less damaging. A 9 pd archer can also sport 5 wm 5 ath and go upwards of 9 ps with a side arm of their Choosing.
I havent seen you nor be an archer in like a year lol. And archers can definitely kite, ive seen you oyourself just turn around and run away from me and i cant do shitThe last several times I have seen Salad_Fork on he was rocking a bow wearing short tunic that has 8 body armor 2 leg armor.
How's internet in those God forsaken woods of yours? Have ISPs from Paraguay started selling better wifi or 4g internet to households outside big cities?
We were hoping the jungle got you by now. Where's bloody scorpions, snakes & spiders when you need 'em.
arbalest is not the most damaging weapon in the game. With 5 ps most mid to high tier melee weapons will out damage arbalest. High tier throwing out damages arbalest and 10 pd archers are just slightly less damaging. A 9 pd archer can also sport 5 wm 5 ath and go upwards of 9 ps with a side arm of their Choosing.
Sorry but no. I've never been one hit with a melee weapon on a 36/3 10 IF account before whereas on the arbalest I have. Your comments about melee weapons SOMEHOW magically outdamaging the arbalest are completely and utterly wrong.lul reading a Yeldurs post with sense and truth, no bullshit, just pure picture how wrong things went in all this 'range' mess :|
I doubted anything could 1 hit me as I've been hit in the head with basically everything until I got hit with an arbalest and instantly dropped.
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