cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Dupre on February 08, 2017, 10:11:43 pm

Title: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: Dupre on February 08, 2017, 10:11:43 pm
I've been digging into crpg stuff past couple weeks and came up with some ideas that i'd like feedback on. I've also been making minor changes that will be patched in the next coming weeks.

-Increased item exchange showing up more frequently , should show up more often in the auction house.
-New player package adjustment, make it more sexy for new players. More gold, better items etc
-Strat rooster changed back to 50
-Patcher is being worked on and banners should be fix at the same time.


Already Implemented but will patch once patcher is fixed:

chychy: Price per discount updated to 6% from 5% per PP
chychy: Change time & merc scaling for battles
chychy: Cancel attack if attacker as less than 100 troups or low armour
chychy: Max battle duration update to 70 minutes from 60
chychy: Update troop number for /3 rule to 900 from 1000
Nashringa: Ladders enabled(hopefully)
Nashringa: increased bots per wave 2 > 5
Nashringa: DTV bot AI adjusted(more aggressive bots)
Nashringa: Vivi stat increase + new weapon



Ideas:


Changing the amount of weapon points you receive when spending 1 stat point on AGI(15 WP per 1 AGI) and the amount of Weapons points you receive when gaining a level which is at 20+55.

Reason for this change: Weapon points will finally match up to the last XP formula change that happen OCT 2014 and allow players to reach higher levels that have never been reached by allowing more xp gain and possibly adjusting required XP in the higher levels. A change in Loompoints received when retiring would also be adjusted in this change. Right now Retiring amount is:
(click to show/hide)

Tested: Yes and No. I've tested what a level 38 with all points spent in AGI and WP can do. It's not healthy for the game or servers once that much WP is reached. I haven't tested the new idea. BTW everyone would receive a free skill and state respec if these changes were to be implemented.



Server lag issues
: I've been on this since day one and finally think i've made some progress. I have recently found some bad "open loops", basically open scripts that are ongoing calling between the server client for data nonstop. I believe team balancing changes back in 2014-2015 may be the problem. I'll keep everyone updated if I make some adjustments.


I'll keep posting and updating this topic with new ideas and changes.


Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: Asheram on February 08, 2017, 10:51:17 pm
I probably would agree on the amount of points a lvl 38 gets if they are all spent on one thing only. But if you start cutting you start killing hybrid builds. I have never put all my points in one class at lvl 37 nor will I if I ever make it to 38, which if I do make it will probably retire for the title and never retire again on him after that.
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: Dupre on February 08, 2017, 11:04:58 pm
I probably would agree on the amount of points a lvl 38 gets if they are all spent on one thing only. But if you start cutting you start killing hybrid builds. I have never put all my points in one class at lvl 37 nor will I if I ever make it to 38, which if I do make it will probably retire for the title and never retire again on him after that.


You would still be able to play hybrid builds but would just have less points just like everyone else. These changes are meant to slow the game down so that the database, engine, and client have a better sync which then would give everyone a better playing experience especially people at 60+ ping. And the idea is to make level 40 obtainable which should allow players to make better hybrid builds. These changes to 14 wp per agi and 55+20 were made in 2013, before that they were 55+16 and 15 WP 1 AGI. Changes were never made to accommodate the new XP formula and over and over we tried with balancing items, but we all know that didn't pan out to well for the past couple years..
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: Dupre on February 08, 2017, 11:15:59 pm
imo

Now the problem I see with high level is that all it does is inflate the standard builds, hybrids sort of stay at the same disadvantage they were previously at. Maybe I'm just nostalgic for the days of 24/15
can make minor changes to boost up hybrids, possibly increase IF  or even create some hybrid build specific weapons that only certain stats you can use. I'm trying to match the days before xp formula. I thought those were the best days with the best builds and crpg combat had no delay at all, very fluid. I'm trying to match up to that era with out changing back the xp formula. Thats a change that I would need help to implement back. FYI Harald took care of all the xp formula changes

interesting note, according to the data, as of yesterday we have 823 strength builds, 734 balancing builds, and 451 agility builds
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: Asheram on February 08, 2017, 11:18:24 pm
Can you make hx viable again?
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: Dupre on February 08, 2017, 11:25:08 pm
Can you make hx viable again?

Whats the issue?
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: Asheram on February 09, 2017, 12:00:35 am
Whats the issue?
I think they changed something to do with bolt speed and mount speed bonus that made them suck now.
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: Gurgumul on February 09, 2017, 12:14:30 am
Make getting lower levels slower than now, and higher levels faster than now. Requirement for 35 stays the same, you just spend more time in between the levels, rather than being stuck on a single level. It gets tedious once you reach 34 because it takes ages to level up. After retiring you get the first twenty-something levels in a single match, and that's just waste of potential for fun. If you want exact values for levels, I can bring up a few examples. I have some graphs and stuff in my room. And puppets. You like puppets?

Also I have this idea for financial masochists like me. The problem is, I don't like getting a shitload of money really fast in games, I'd rather slowly grind for items than have them all practically from the start. But decreasing gold per tick would only ruin the game for new players, since vets already have milliunz of golds. So the idea is a "bank" where you put your gold, or set it to automatically take a percentage of your income. So if for example I set the bank to take 80% of my gold, I only get 20% of gold per tick, and the rest goes to my "bank account". There is of course a little interest rate, but should probably get smaller with amount of gold you have in bank, so that you can't just buy all the looms if you're super rich. The trick is that you can only withdraw gold once a week or so, similar to how you get respecs. With this "bank", people can choose to have fun slowly unlocking gear on alts.

btw release multiplier from its x5 shackles

Also combine battle and siege servers, so that there is a single server with both modes in map rotation. Dividing the already scarce population into two servers makes mod more dead than it is.

Also add wacky new weapons and ammo, like triple arrows so that you can shoot three arrows at once, but with low accuracy. It will liven up the community by screwing up the balance.
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: axel on February 09, 2017, 01:25:18 am
I agree on all but the stupid 3 arrows at the same time... yo dawg.. wtf
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: Dupre on February 09, 2017, 02:03:24 am
Make getting lower levels slower than now, and higher levels faster than now. Requirement for 35 stays the same, you just spend more time in between the levels, rather than being stuck on a single level. It gets tedious once you reach 34 because it takes ages to level up. After retiring you get the first twenty-something levels in a single match, and that's just waste of potential for fun. If you want exact values for levels, I can bring up a few examples. I have some graphs and stuff in my room. And puppets. You like puppets?

Also I have this idea for financial masochists like me. The problem is, I don't like getting a shitload of money really fast in games, I'd rather slowly grind for items than have them all practically from the start. But decreasing gold per tick would only ruin the game for new players, since vets already have milliunz of golds. So the idea is a "bank" where you put your gold, or set it to automatically take a percentage of your income. So if for example I set the bank to take 80% of my gold, I only get 20% of gold per tick, and the rest goes to my "bank account". There is of course a little interest rate, but should probably get smaller with amount of gold you have in bank, so that you can't just buy all the looms if you're super rich. The trick is that you can only withdraw gold once a week or so, similar to how you get respecs. With this "bank", people can choose to have fun slowly unlocking gear on alts.

btw release multiplier from its x5 shackles

Also combine battle and siege servers, so that there is a single server with both modes in map rotation. Dividing the already scarce population into two servers makes mod more dead than it is.

Also add wacky new weapons and ammo, like triple arrows so that you can shoot three arrows at once, but with low accuracy. It will liven up the community by screwing up the balance.

1. Would need to adjust current XP formula. It can be done but like I said in a earlier post, i'll need help from chadz or harald. Harald is the one who made the changes back in 2014

2. I really like your idea. I'm not sure if its something I can create though. Harald would of been the developer to take on something like this.
     -another idea that is similar and could possibly be implemented is adding another currency similar to silver in Strat. Ways of obtaining new currency would be through using gold(would be a high price to exchange), winning battles in strat(promote players to play strat battles), and some kind of way to obtain in DTV(maybe kills?). We could add some new weapons and armor under the new currency to motivate players to grind a little bit more + give new players a fair chance to catch up.

3. i'm not opposed to going further than 5x but it;s something I haven't looked into and not sure if its possible. I'd like to adjust levels or xp formula before looking into releasing 5x and,  I could always adjust xp gain on each tick if needed.

4. 50/50 on this, community always goes back and fourth on this idea.  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: Gurgumul on February 09, 2017, 02:23:54 am
I agree on all but the stupid 3 arrows at the same time... yo dawg.. wtf
you found the bingus. gj
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: Molly on February 09, 2017, 08:21:19 am
I'd like to see a fully operational version of crpg and only after that implementing new stuff.
I am kinda conservative that way... :)
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: Patoson on February 09, 2017, 08:56:15 am
I'd first fix the floating hats/caps. You can see them on the first rounds of DTV, among peasants and bandits. It doesn't look very good.
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: the real god emperor on February 09, 2017, 03:58:38 pm
IMO, bows/arrows should be buffed, especially non-loomed ones. New players are usually enthusiastic with the bow and in current state where STR is OP and everyone has heavy armor, so bows are quite useless, if you're not a lvl 39 archer beast ofc.
However, the extra damage horses receive from ranged should be removed. Because light cav is literally obsolete right now. Sneaking behind is most of the time out of question and 1-2 lucky arrows are enough to take down your horse. Cavalry can't head to head any infantry class anyway, it should have it's countering aspect back to the table.
Also another major problem is the hitboxes of ranged weapons. They are nearly impossible to miss in most people's hands and there is literally no counterplay, since their melee modes are OP too, speaking especially for throwing lance.
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: Jona on February 09, 2017, 04:17:18 pm
No one in their right mind would ever make a majority-agi level 38 build, as that would be such a waste of a grind. As it stands it takes quite a while to reach such a high level, so I don't think we need to balance the game around the possibilities of mostly all str or all agi at such a level, since those have always been one trick pony troll builds that get real boring after a while. No one seems to think that agi is OP/annoying currently (at least not compared to when it was legitimately broken), so as they say, if it ain't broken, don't fix it. As your stats showed, str was the majority of builds, and if anything people are of the opinion that
STR is OP and everyone has heavy armor

I'm not saying str builds should be kept in check (I personally think str should always be a tad stronger than agi, since balancing them perfectly seems to always remain a pipe dream), I'm just saying I think that there are far more glaring issues than "agi breaking the servers" such as broken items, banners, etc. Slowing down the pace of gameplay, even if it could make for slightly smoother combat, would just ruin the feel of this game for all us vets. It's always been fast, and fast combat requires more skill. If we slow it all down it'll have less of that crpg feel and be more similar to boring old native. Especially at a time where all us nerds can block 98% of swings, we need to keep it fast so that duels don't go on literally forever. Toying with the combat too much at this stage could easily have the reverse of the intended effect. Despite any perceived balance issues, people have been playing this version of crpg for years, and recently starting playing again. I don't think that we should go rushing straight towards making a utopian crpg so soon after its revival, as even when we had a decent population major balance changes always made half the servers RQ since their build got nerfed.
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: Dupre on February 09, 2017, 04:37:29 pm
No one in their right mind would ever make a majority-agi level 38 build, as that would be such a waste of a grind. As it stands it takes quite a while to reach such a high level, so I don't think we need to balance the game around the possibilities of mostly all str or all agi at such a level, since those have always been one trick pony troll builds that get real boring after a while. No one seems to think that agi is OP/annoying currently (at least not compared to when it was legitimately broken), so as they say, if it ain't broken, don't fix it. As your stats showed, str was the majority of builds, and if anything people are of the opinion that
I'm not saying str builds should be kept in check (I personally think str should always be a tad stronger than agi, since balancing them perfectly seems to always remain a pipe dream), I'm just saying I think that there are far more glaring issues than "agi breaking the servers" such as broken items, banners, etc. Slowing down the pace of gameplay, even if it could make for slightly smoother combat, would just ruin the feel of this game for all us vets. It's always been fast, and fast combat requires more skill. If we slow it all down it'll have less of that crpg feel and be more similar to boring old native. Especially at a time where all us nerds can block 98% of swings, we need to keep it fast so that duels don't go on literally forever.

You guys can adapt, you're vets, builds shouldn't matter too much. The idea behind changes is to fix the sync problems when fighting. Anything past 200 wp pretty much has a good chance of ghost swinging or causing some kind of sync problem when fighting, especially when there are good amount of players in game(noticing alot more at 50-60) and you have 50+ ping. The more fluid combat, the faster it will be. Most of my blocking comes from knowing the other players moves from fighting them in the past, a lot of the time animations won't fully complete on my screen.

Another idea could be adjusting WP max points to 200. You can only spend 200 in weapon skill.
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: Molly on February 09, 2017, 04:57:13 pm
[...]I'm just saying I think that there are far more glaring issues than "agi breaking the servers" such as broken items, banners, etc. [...]
This.
I beg you, please, as many bug fixing as possible before adding/changing things. Should be way easier to add/change from a solid working base onwards too.
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: Dupre on February 09, 2017, 05:11:39 pm
This.
I beg you, please, as many bug fixing as possible before adding/changing things. Should be way easier to add/change from a solid working base onwards too.

Well what bugs? what items are broken? I already told you guys banners are being fixed. Give some real feedback please.
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: Jona on February 09, 2017, 05:18:13 pm
Another idea could be adjusting WP max points to 200. You can only spend 200 in weapon skill.

This would be far more preferable as it doesn't simultaneously punish anyone with a less extreme build. I'd really like to know how many people even have over 200 wpf anyways...

what items are broken?

For starters:

I'd first fix the floating hats/caps. You can see them on the first rounds of DTV, among peasants and bandits. It doesn't look very good.
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: Gurgumul on February 09, 2017, 08:15:54 pm
Another idea could be adjusting WP max points to 200. You can only spend 200 in weapon skill.

Please no, one of the reasons I'm playing cRPG and not mercs for example is that there is such great variety of builds and no hard limits. In mercs there is a limit to how much wpf you can have in a weapon type, which forces hybrid builds and makes me throw up. And if you limited WP to max 200, it would subconsciously be the goal of most players. If something is forbidden or limited, then it must be good, right? And so, most players would aim to have 200 WP in a weapon type, instead of optimizing the right balance between agi and str.
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: Dupre on February 09, 2017, 08:23:06 pm
This would be far more preferable as it doesn't simultaneously punish anyone with a less extreme build. I'd really like to know how many people even have over 200 wpf anyways...

For starters:

Jona, your character has over 200 polearm right now lol.

Peasants/Round 1, checked all 3 waves, no floating hats or bugs.
(click to show/hide)

Bandits/Round 2 , checked all 3 waves, no floating hats or bugs.(did get headshot death twice in a row though, might lower their accuracy lol)
(click to show/hide)

For Patoson: most likely the cause for this is the patcher not downloading all the files to your computer. If you have played mods recently or reinstalled crpg after patcher broke, most likely you'll have issues like this.


Jona and others, again please post some real feedback and stick to the topic. Post some relevant shit, counter my ideas with other ideas, think big picture,  create a good argument, etc etc. I know whats broken 80% of the time, I do still play. If something is broken and needs to be fixed asap, hit me up on discord https://discord.gg/tEbRJ (https://discord.gg/tEbRJ) or steam


Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: Dupre on February 09, 2017, 08:32:04 pm
Please no, one of the reasons I'm playing cRPG and not mercs for example is that there is such great variety of builds and no hard limits. In mercs there is a limit to how much wpf you can have in a weapon type, which forces hybrid builds and makes me throw up. And if you limited WP to max 200, it would subconsciously be the goal of most players. If something is forbidden or limited, then it must be good, right? And so, most players would aim to have 200 WP in a weapon type, instead of optimizing the right balance between agi and str.

I wouldn't change the max WP you receive, it would be 200 is the max WP you can spend in 1 weapon skill so it doesn't go over 200 WP and have lightning fast swings.

So say right now you're level 38, your stats are:

Strength: 16 -
Agility: 31 -
Weapon points: 9
One Handed: 36 +
Two Handed: 211 -
Polearm: 36 +
Throwing: 1 +
Crossbow: 1 +
Archery: 1 +
Skill points: 2
Weapon Master: 10 -
Athletics: 7 + -
Riding: 0 +
Iron Flesh: 6 -
Shield: 0 +
Horse Archery: 0 +
Power Strike: 6 -
Power Draw: 0 +
Power Throw: 0 +

After the proposed change, you would probably aim for something like this since now you can only spend 200 in on weapon skill:


Attribute points: 0
Strength: 16 -
Agility: 31 -
Weapon points: 1
One Handed: 34
Two Handed: 200 -
Polearm: 34
Throwing: 76 -
Crossbow: 1
Archery: 1
Skill points: 2
Weapon Master: 10 -
Athletics: 7 + -
Riding: 0 +
Iron Flesh: 6 -
Shield: 0 +
Horse Archery: 0 +
Power Strike: 6 -
Power Draw: 0 +
Power Throw: 0 +


Now thats only level 38, imagine if i open the door for level 40 and beyond.
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: Jona on February 09, 2017, 09:22:07 pm
Jona, your character has over 200 polearm right now lol.

If you say so...

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


Keep in mind that after the recent str requirement changes that opting for less than 21 str and higher agi at such a high level limits you to only half the available weapons/armors, which of course means you're missing out on half the fun. That's why I don't foresee high level dedicated str-agi builds being such an issue. I'd argue that my build is on the more extreme side as is, since IF is actually useful nowadays (don't forget that while I have 198 wpf, the effective wpf is far far lower when I'm wearing any armor, due to the IF requirement that I'm obviously not meeting).


Now thats only level 38, imagine if i open the door for level 40 and beyond.

Here's any idea... don't. People disliked the high level change after the patch of destiny way back in 2014, do you think it's a bright idea to up the levels even more? Having a "soft" cap at 38 is bad enough, no need to let the vets have an even greater advantage over newcomers or recently retired characters.
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: Gurgumul on February 09, 2017, 09:52:22 pm
Having a "soft" cap at 38 is bad enough, no need to let the vets have an even greater advantage over newcomers or recently retired characters.
Surely lvl 38 has a bit more advantage over let's say 34 than 40 over 36. If we put it to extremes, lvl 8 has twice as much levels than lvl 4, but lvl 50 only has near 9% level advantage over 46. So the higher the soft cap, the better it is for "lower" levels, assuming the "lower" levels also become higher.
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: Dupre on February 09, 2017, 09:59:49 pm
If you say so...

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


Keep in mind that after the recent str requirement changes that opting for less than 21 str and higher agi at such a high level limits you to only half the available weapons/armors, which of course means you're missing out on half the fun. That's why I don't foresee high level dedicated str-agi builds being such an issue. I'd argue that my build is on the more extreme side as is, since IF is actually useful nowadays (don't forget that while I have 198 wpf, the effective wpf is far far lower when I'm wearing any armor, due to the IF requirement that I'm obviously not meeting).


Here's any idea... don't. People disliked the high level change after the patch of destiny way back in 2014, do you think it's a bright idea to up the levels even more? Having a "soft" cap at 38 is bad enough, no need to let the vets have an even greater advantage over newcomers or recently retired characters.

Those strength changes were reverted. I changed back most stats cause of actual item issues but ended up reverting most of those strength changes. It will be pushed through once patcher is fixed, just didn't mention it on patch notes. And again, those strength changes were implemented to counteract with the high levels.

Patch of destiny was never finished, only adjustments made were to the levels and some increase and stat points, after that it was never adjusted. There were no balance, item or any other change implemented to the patch of destiny to counteract with the level increase.  So right now we are basically playing one small part of patch of destiny which has been in for 2 years so I understand that people have already adapted to it and will be upset if anything changes, but something has to change cause new players don't tend to stick around cause to them, the game feels broken. don't forget I also reverted 6 months worth of crpg development when I first joined up. I might actually cut back a little more on past development cause now im seeing a lot of bugs. The more I learn about the mod and scripts in place the more I see how broken it really is.

here is data on new accounts signed up past 2 weeks:
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: Arjay on February 09, 2017, 10:16:12 pm
I like everything up til you talk about higher level caps. No.
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: Dupre on February 09, 2017, 10:22:24 pm
I like everything up til you talk about higher level caps. No.

Would be alot more changes that go with it than just level caps. Since it seems players are interested and its kind of 50/50, i'll create a doc of what I would do in one patch including opening doors to level 40 and share with everyone.
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: Man of Steel on February 09, 2017, 10:36:21 pm
Please be carefully with buffing the DTV bots, dont make them too stronk.  In my opionion it would be a good Start to go from 2 up to 4 bots. Might be enough for the start
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: Porthos on February 10, 2017, 07:07:44 am
I strongly dislike idea of upping the level cap, as to me it seems that "The Destiny Patch" was a major mistake. Since then everyone became way too overpowered (weekly respecs helped this too) with the additional +4 (from lvl 31 to lvl 35 being a current retirement mark) point boost in stats. The light armor has become absolutely no use. Currently I'm dying from 1 hits almost everytime while playing in my usual light armor set (padded heraldic tabard+light strange gloves) even though now I use 6 if, and before the "Destiny Patch" I used 0-2 if and yet I was dying from 2-3 hits usually. My main complaint is that whatever boost you've chosen, everyone became deadlier on the battlefield. If you have boosted your str (ps/if) - you naturally became stronger, with more melee damage. And if you have boosted your agi (ath/wpf) - then your swing also became deadlier because of extra speed bonus (both characters movement speed and weapon speed increased). The Destiny Patch has made the game more challenging, so most of tryhards adapted and would not complain, but honestly the game now is way too fast and tiring to play (in comparison with pre-destiny patch era), and it has become even harder for newcomers/medium skilled guys, after every single one of us being so much overbuffed on the battlefield.
---sry if i didnt explained it thoroughly, im sleepy as fuck atm
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: HappyPhantom on February 10, 2017, 07:08:11 am
Revert DTV to pre-Fips shenaniganary.
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: Gurgumul on February 10, 2017, 01:07:01 pm
Why not simply buff all armor then? Light armors are practically useless because you die in one hit anyway. Might as well save yourself the encumbrance and run around naked. Alternatively, here's a better idea: tweak damage types so that cutting damage drops much faster with armor values. The reason why 2h heroes love their e-peen extension swords is that they can just spam and look cool, and it works. Cutting weapons should only be a viable choice against very light armor, damage should drastically drop around the point where armors get mail. Combat is fast because agiwhores run around with 2h swords, which are too fast to begin with imo. Another thing, but much harder to do is poise, kinda like in Dark Souls. The more poise you have, the harder hits you can take without staggering you and without interrupting your attacks.
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: njames89 on February 10, 2017, 01:19:29 pm
Can we get a huge increase to strategus XP as a way to get people back into it.
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: Dupre on February 10, 2017, 05:45:25 pm
I strongly dislike idea of upping the level cap, as to me it seems that "The Destiny Patch" was a major mistake. Since then everyone became way too overpowered (weekly respecs helped this too) with the additional +4 (from lvl 31 to lvl 35 being a current retirement mark) point boost in stats. The light armor has become absolutely no use. Currently I'm dying from 1 hits almost everytime while playing in my usual light armor set (padded heraldic tabard+light strange gloves) even though now I use 6 if, and before the "Destiny Patch" I used 0-2 if and yet I was dying from 2-3 hits usually. My main complaint is that whatever boost you've chosen, everyone became deadlier on the battlefield. If you have boosted your str (ps/if) - you naturally became stronger, with more melee damage. And if you have boosted your agi (ath/wpf) - then your swing also became deadlier because of extra speed bonus (both characters movement speed and weapon speed increased). The Destiny Patch has made the game more challenging, so most of tryhards adapted and would not complain, but honestly the game now is way too fast and tiring to play (in comparison with pre-destiny patch era), and it has become even harder for newcomers/medium skilled guys, after every single one of us being so much overbuffed on the battlefield.
---sry if i didnt explained it thoroughly, im sleepy as fuck atm

You explained it well. We understand  :mrgreen:

I agree with you although I don't think patch of destiny was a big mistake. The idea was good but execution wasn't there, and the devs that were involved pretty much stopped working on crpg after the patch. I believe the design was to extend crpg by giving players opportunities to reach those higher levels and try to make it a little more fair for new players.

I'd love to go back to the old level cap but that honestly doesn't make sense. So the idea is to basically adjust and make changes to counteract with the high levels. We can replicate the crpg era before 2014 by adjusting some small game mechanics that are already created and easy to adjust. We just might run into a couple patches where it will feel wonky, but i'll be around to actually readjust changes. I think these adjustments would impact the game in a better way than just trying to balance items.
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: McKli_PL on February 10, 2017, 06:08:16 pm
I strongly dislike idea of upping the level cap, as to me it seems that "The Destiny Patch" was a major mistake. Since then everyone became way too overpowered (weekly respecs helped this too) with the additional +4 (from lvl 31 to lvl 35 being a current retirement mark) point boost in stats. The light armor has become absolutely no use. Currently I'm dying from 1 hits almost everytime while playing in my usual light armor set (padded heraldic tabard+light strange gloves) even though now I use 6 if, and before the "Destiny Patch" I used 0-2 if and yet I was dying from 2-3 hits usually. My main complaint is that whatever boost you've chosen, everyone became deadlier on the battlefield. If you have boosted your str (ps/if) - you naturally became stronger, with more melee damage. And if you have boosted your agi (ath/wpf) - then your swing also became deadlier because of extra speed bonus (both characters movement speed and weapon speed increased). The Destiny Patch has made the game more challenging, so most of tryhards adapted and would not complain, but honestly the game now is way too fast and tiring to play (in comparison with pre-destiny patch era), and it has become even harder for newcomers/medium skilled guys, after every single one of us being so much overbuffed on the battlefield.
---sry if i didnt explained it thoroughly, im sleepy as fuck atm
solid post mate but i don't agree with same as Dupre mentioned - Destiny Patch - was great not only for tryhards (they will tryhard anyway) but for new players.
Pre patch for eg. on siege tons of players played with low levels just to hit first level of looming 30 lvl. never ever going for higher end builds and those poor players fought vs 35/36 lvl tincans who freaking never ever hit respect button, so the spread between level was huge not to mention about personal skill, just for raw math numbers 7 or even more level was fucking huge.
Now even if the 'new' player is somehow on low level(with current exp going for 36 level is 1or2 weeks) u can just use Skip the fun on level 35! so spread will be 1 or 2 levels max so hurray for admins for this but it's always but we reached nerd era like some1 mentioned on forrum, can't do anything - char wipe - tryhards will once more reach high levels and looms faster than other players etc.
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: Rest_in_Peace on February 10, 2017, 09:23:00 pm
Remove miaodao from game ty
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: Penitent on February 13, 2017, 09:01:36 pm
Quote
here is data on new accounts signed up past 2 weeks:

There are new accounts!?   :shock:
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: Tristan_of_Erzoth on February 13, 2017, 09:17:07 pm
Can we get a huge increase to strategus XP as a way to get people back into it.
Yeah, it'd need I think about a triple increase to be on par with a x5 in NA1 right now. Since NA1 is double double xp from regular and i believe Strat with good gear was about equal to having a x6 or x7 that should be good.
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: njames89 on February 13, 2017, 09:30:13 pm
Yeah, it'd need I think about a triple increase to be on par with a x5 in NA1 right now. Since NA1 is double double xp from regular and i believe Strat with good gear was about equal to having a x6 or x7 that should be good.

This is the best path to make strategus (the best part of crpg) relevant again
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: Godfredus on February 14, 2017, 12:04:48 pm
More frequent heirloom exchange auctions.
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: Ikarus on February 14, 2017, 12:19:29 pm
I saw a new player yesterday. Explained him a bit of the stuff and warned him that he´s gonna have a harder time than in Dark Souls to which he responded "Oh god."

Yet he kept fighting a hopeless fight against some old players, he has my respect.
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: njames89 on February 14, 2017, 02:10:06 pm
Seeing some new players in NA recently too. Welcoming them and offering to help with gold/an armoury. Pretty rough to be starting at this point.

I think making the game easier on 1st gen characters is a good idea.
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: POOPHAMMER on February 14, 2017, 04:35:19 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgqMnNJzHrI
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: Ikarus on February 14, 2017, 10:21:01 pm
hmm, looking at the video, we COULD add ladders again to battle, since we got flags anyways now
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: POOPHAMMER on February 15, 2017, 09:44:04 am
give me ladders or give me death
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: Algarn on February 15, 2017, 11:56:52 pm
give me ladders or give me death

You're just gonna die crushed by a ladder, true story. Also, are people playing actively again ?

Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: Fips on February 16, 2017, 02:57:35 am
Revert DTV to pre-Fips shenaniganary.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: Penitent on February 16, 2017, 03:48:36 am
You're just gonna die crushed by a ladder, true story. Also, are people playing actively again ?


Come, see for yourself.
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: the real god emperor on February 17, 2017, 05:55:14 am
D E P L O Y  L A D D E R S
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: Grumbs on February 17, 2017, 07:45:00 am
Here's any idea... don't. People disliked the high level change after the patch of destiny way back in 2014, do you think it's a bright idea to up the levels even more? Having a "soft" cap at 38 is bad enough, no need to let the vets have an even greater advantage over newcomers or recently retired characters.

Not that I play atm, but I certainly wouldn't play with even more levels than now. I agree the upping of levels was one of the things that led to the downfall of cRPG. You want everyone to be a mix of ranged and melee? Low level players getting destroyed so no one retires? People sprinting around everywhere and dodgy 1 trick builds? I know the patch of destiny improved the XP curve for lower levels, but the other things it brought to the table made sure no one ever retired again anyway

If anything revert the patch of destiny and give some incentives to retiring. Thats one of the main things that keeps people in the game - the need for XP so they can retire so they can get looms. Give some purpose for looms and make free weekly respec more like once every 2 months. No one needs loom points anymore, they reach satiation point and the benefits to retiring are non-existent compared to simply respecing.

I much preferred the gameplay before patch of destiny when people had less agi. More tactical, less spammy, healthier economy, more people selling looms etc. I doubt you have any modellers or coders atm who can do it, but some +4 equipment might boost the economy and get people retiring
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: Larvae on February 17, 2017, 09:02:26 pm
remove the stupid slot system and let me play like i played 5 years ago...give me the rus bow and longsword and let me be able to take 2 bags of arrows....
also bring back ladders
and i still like the idea of an entire wipe to make everything interesting again...so many ppl crying here to not have a wipe,but to be honest,where are u guys on eu1?if u would atleast play very often,then okay,but most are just forum active^^ (cant tell for NA players´- those are excluded)
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: Umbra on February 18, 2017, 01:01:58 pm
Return cross dressing and you will see 100+ players on EU1
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: Thryn on February 18, 2017, 05:16:26 pm
ban Sexy_Furry


na saved
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: Jarold on February 19, 2017, 06:06:16 am
Is the revival happening?
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: the real god emperor on February 19, 2017, 01:23:51 pm
hopefully
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: Kato on February 19, 2017, 11:38:42 pm
- wipe
- return to pre-high level patch - where 30-32 level is standard, 34-36 max
- remove slot restrictions
- one day a week allow to use ladders
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: Sexy_Furry_of_the_KE on February 20, 2017, 12:07:50 am
ban Sexy_Furry


na saved
I personally think this is a good idea.
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: Grumbs on February 20, 2017, 07:55:23 am
Why remove slot restrictions? Ask for different balance maybe, but the slot system ensures people don't all use the best gear or have things like Arbalasts as well as a Greatsword and infinite ammo
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: Ikarus on February 20, 2017, 12:57:06 pm
Why remove slot restrictions? Ask for different balance maybe, but the slot system ensures people don't all use the best gear or have things like Arbalasts as well as a Greatsword and infinite ammo
this, slot system is just right atm, wouldn´t touch it
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: Jarold on February 21, 2017, 01:05:54 am
Here's an idea I'm just throwing out there...


This way we sort of start fresh, but old players still have an edge due to their commitment to the mod. Obviously, resetting the game is controversial and heartbreaking to many players. However, it doesn't have to be a complete wipe, and guys take a screenshot if you really love staring at the same thing on your pc. Also, I say give old players around 9 lp's so they won't rage but they'll have something to grind for again, and their won't be as many mw's floating around. It will also allow old players to have MW body armor, gloves, and a weapon, or whatever combination they desire right off the bat.

It took me many years of on and off play, contributing to the mod, getting a couple gifts, and winning a contest to finally get 3 MW items. So I would be sad to see my progress go but right now the mod is a ghost town and needs something to spark some interest.

Just my $0.02.
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: Kato on February 21, 2017, 02:38:03 am
Why remove slot restrictions? Ask for different balance maybe, but the slot system ensures people don't all use the best gear or have things like Arbalasts as well as a Greatsword and infinite ammo

Good old sniper tincans with greatswords :)

I agree crossbows and unlimited amount of arrows could be a problem, so I would keep restrictions for these.
If there is a wipe, there won't be high level players with a lot of points in melee and range for a while. And I would love to bring siege shield, ladder or torch to battle from time to time while still being able to use my main weapon.
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: njames89 on February 21, 2017, 12:25:53 pm
Heskey we had a good 10v10 strat battle for a village the other day. Come back and wrassle up your dwarf brethren.
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: Painmace on February 21, 2017, 01:23:23 pm
Lands of Lords too good (start your adventure on https://www.landsoflords.com today)

It fulfils my lifelong dream of Strategus without the cRPG component. And I refuse to micromanage 2 different maps.
Yo, thats seems kinda cool any sub forum here so we can group up?
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: njames89 on February 27, 2017, 01:38:08 pm
Pft I never had a loom pack when I was starting...

Back  in my day crpg players were men...

I had to walk to the strategus battle 30km uphill both ways...

Plebians these days...
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: Mirliva on March 11, 2017, 08:54:56 am
FIX THE BANNER ISSUE PERMANENTLY...  :cry:
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: Ikarus on March 11, 2017, 04:49:06 pm
why do we have flags when they don´t work 50% of the time?
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: njames89 on March 11, 2017, 06:11:25 pm
why do we have flags when they don´t work 50% of the time?

It's an homage to the percentage of time that the devs themselves work
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: Gurgumul on March 11, 2017, 06:16:19 pm
make European Light Lance & Saracen Light Lance 1 slot instead of 2
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: Asheram on March 11, 2017, 07:37:14 pm
make devs that can apply the stuff we want made
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: XyNox on March 12, 2017, 03:40:08 am
Can those dozents of obsolete archery nerfs which piled up over the last years regarding melee/ranged efficiency, mobility and survivability please get addressed now that some certain somebodies are not in charge of balancing anymore ?

I may have very well tried every single archer build there is from 12/30 up to 30/12, pure and hybrid archer but no matter what you do, every single archer build will miss at least one crucial ability that is absolutely necessary to play this game outside of staying in a protected tower and spamming arrows somewhere or a well organized teamplay. Since bows are utterly dependant on crazy high WPF to have baseline accuracy ( or even be able to release an arrow BEFORE the reticule starts growing again ), a build that allows for decent accuracy, drawing speed and does non-laughable damage already consumes so many att/skill points that the amount of points left which can be put in melee, hardly make it viable. Not to mention the additional restrictions in armour weight and slots on top of that.

Ideally:

- Introduce a more appropriate mechanic to prevent kiting instead of the unrealistically high blanket bow/quiver weight increase which kills footwork and dodging entirely.
- Bring the bow WPF req more in line with other weapons so you dont need ~150 min WPF to even finish a draw in time for the accuracy loss to kick in.
- Make the armour weight treshold for archery entirely dependant on STR alone and not IF, hybrid builds already have to split their points enough, no reason to add another necessary skill to the list that eats even more points. I suggest max armour weight without penalty equals STR with a min cap of 10, where armour counts HEAD*2 , HAND*3 , BODY*1 , LEG*0
- buff the damage a bit:
  - the current bow missile speeds are probably as low as they have ever been. Thats not bad, it promotes playerskill and it is still manageable to hit moving targets and you can shoot over teammates. However the low missile speed + quirky hit detection ( which started as soon as Dave's hitbox revamp got introduced as far as I remember ) makes it really frustrating to see so many arrows ghosting through targets and a really unrewarding experience if you manage to hit headshots on spazzing targets but even an enemy archer with a light-med helmet wont die from heavy bow headshots.
- adjust the position of sheathed polearms on the back as they stick right into the reticule in 3rd person when using a bow.
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: njames89 on March 12, 2017, 08:11:02 pm
Archery is 100% viable
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: Ikarus on March 12, 2017, 08:28:44 pm
important: is the bugged launcher already fixed? We can´t make newcomers download the game via torrents or dropbox on a constant basis
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: njames89 on March 12, 2017, 09:21:27 pm
important: is the bugged launcher already fixed? We can´t make newcomers download the game via torrents or dropbox on a constant basis

No it is not fixed
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: XyNox on March 13, 2017, 12:04:51 am
Archery is 100% viable

If you have a build that focuses on archery alone and nothing else, it is. Wont do you any good though in crpg's current state with melee centric, small arena type maps, platecrutchers who can outrun and outspam OHK you and virtually 0 teamwork or formations among the usual random players outside of an organized clan. Luckily we have EU7 until that is fixed.
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: njames89 on March 13, 2017, 11:23:17 am
This is a non argument. There are archers in NA that destroy. It is currently 100% viable. Sexy Furry, Elder Luker, Sellka, Lucky. All of them have no problem using archery to contribute to their team massively.

It does not need a buff at all.
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: Gurgumul on March 13, 2017, 03:42:38 pm
This is a non argument. There are archers in NA that destroy. It is currently 100% viable. Sexy Furry, Elder Luker, Sellka, Lucky. All of them have no problem using archery to contribute to their team massively.

It does not need a buff at all.
In EU I always see ELDAR_B0SS, Novosomething_Opelcorsa, Konrad_von_Pskov and other archers on top of the list if they are present. If anything, archery is especially viable now with low population. Most players choose 2h no shield because they assume no one would be so dishonorable as to use archery in a dead mod.
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: Asheram on March 13, 2017, 04:40:20 pm
melee does have ranged it's called a xbow, sure it's not as good as archery or throwing esp if you put no wpf into it but you only need str no skill points needed.
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: Asheram on March 13, 2017, 04:54:40 pm
Bolts are 0 slot where as arrows are 1 slot, I use xbow on Asheram who has all wpf in polearm. You can use a 2 slot xbow with a 2 slot weapon.
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: njames89 on March 13, 2017, 04:56:13 pm
I use only 38 wpf in Crossbow and it is deadly at mid range. Still allows me enough 2h wpf to be very effective in melee.
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: Asheram on March 13, 2017, 05:05:30 pm
Don't get me wrong I don't think archery needs a buff. Furry and Lurker are good @ melee and I would bet they have no points in melee.
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: XyNox on March 13, 2017, 05:36:02 pm
This is a non argument. There are archers in NA that destroy. It is currently 100% viable. Sexy Furry, Elder Luker, Sellka, Lucky. All of them have no problem using archery to contribute to their team massively.

It does not need a buff at all.

I dont mean to be blunt but this ^ actually is a non argument. Claiming that something is the case by presenting a singular case where it happens is an informal fallacy. If there would be a player that could rape everybody with a hatchet, we would not assume that hatchet is OP would we ?

If you (having played every possible archer build under the sun) can't come up with better than this, how can you expect anyone in charge of balance to do it? If anyone balance-wise is still alive they probably rely on long-time archers like you to propose a new mechanic, not just tell them to scrap the existing one and come up with something 'more appropriate'.


As for your list; if archers did more damage across the board, were more accurate, able to fire faster after drawing without the agi-dump and also retain full melee potential and footwork, don't you think that a majority of melee focused players would question why anyone would ever not play archer? There are then no downsides to playing that class.

It's easy to take pure melee for granted as being too good at everything, but forget that pure melee has zero ranged potential and that this is a hard limit placed on the class and no amount of player skill can ever make a pure melee character a threat at ranged. Even with all the nerfs, a pure ranged character still has melee potential and player skill can absolutely make up for the mechanical nerfs applied to that character. This is one of the reasons why archery has suffered, it needs to be balanced taking into account the very best players of the class with the very best gear because the skill ceiling and skill potential for archers is so much higher than other classes, as our community has shrunk and become 'older' the top archers could effectively break a server if not limited in some way.

If you want archery to be viable I don't know why you'd lobby for changes that if it they ever make it into the game, would lead to such an almighty reactionary nerf to appease the community, that you'd even wish archery was as viable as it is now.

If I could go through my entire post-history in this forum and the chatlogs of almost a year worth of irc balance discussions, I could probably put together a 20k-word wall of text just by quoting myself regarding the points you raised above. Since that would be a massive undertaking, I can just ask you to believe me on this. You know me Hesky, I main archer in this game since day one for about 5 or 6 years now and with no intention to brag, quite some people consider(ed) me top class. I dare say I know what I am talking about and with all my experience I can clearly tell you that your assessment does not hold true to the reality of things.

Actually, if I am not mistaken, wasnt it you yourself who, in some range balance thread was posting something along the lines of "the only way to play archery succesfully is to be significantly better at melee than all the other pure-melee players around" ?

Obviously I am in no way stating that archers should have "full melee potential" while having buffed ranged abilities as well. First and foremost I was addressing the melee capabilities of archers or their access to hybritizion. Right now, archers compared to other classes get the hardest time accessing to mobility as well as armour/tankyness as well as melee stats as well as slot restrictions.
- High STR/IF plate can tank a rediculous amount of shots and close the gap ( even more so with all the city maps and close range maps in general we have these days )
- Shielders can just hold rmb
- Heavy cav got their received range damage severly lowered and can just charge with little risk
- High WPF chars can literaly outspam you
- High ATH chars can easily s-key you
- xbows can easily outburst you and when you follow them while reloading, they will have the stronger melee build+armour most likely

Wouldnt it be enough if archers would only be restricted in terms of slots+armour or mobility+WPF instead of placing restriction on every single stat that plays a vital role in this game ? Is it really too much to ask to retain at least half of the infantry cababilities while playing a ranged class ? Even if the armour restriction got removed altogether for example, the archer you face would still be an opponent with a 0 or 1 slot weapon with no shield, lower melee WPF than a 30 STR build and average PS at best. Now I wont suggest to remove armour weight restriction altogether since plated archers running around everywhere would just feel silly.

As always with these ranged discussions, you could go back and forth about these points. People will usually bring up complaints about any ranged buff that can be reduced to "but they can shoot", without ever analyzing the current state of ranged power the individual ranged classes have, granted they integrate minumum melee capabilities in their builds. My melee alt is a higher generation that my main these days because for quite some time now walking up to your enemy and slashing him to death is pretty much easier, simpler, safer and more rewarding than trying cope with the gazillion archery nerfs that make the class completely unfun and unflexible.

And as always, if you want to prove me wrong, make an archer and we will meet in EU3.
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: njames89 on March 13, 2017, 05:51:48 pm
If you can't perform as archer just practice and work at getting better. The class does not need a buff. You would have to be mad or a bad archer to think that.

Now horse archery could use a buff.
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: XyNox on March 13, 2017, 06:28:40 pm
Alright, our amounts of experience for different classes differ too much apparently, we can just agree not to agree here. Just to address one thing though:

What I do object to is the potential for overbuffing archery by implementing every change in the above list, since in the long term you'll only kill your own class. Change too many things too quickly and if people don't like it, the class will be punished hard in the next patch.

It was really just a list, even if only 50% of the things got put live and then even only with 50% of the described effect, it would still be a useful change. Additionally, the old balancers who listened to every butthurt kid rushing to forum are gone. I am not sure how Dupre handles things but one can only hope that the days where general QQ would automatically induce a nerf are gone.
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: Jona on March 14, 2017, 12:26:25 am
I dont mean to be blunt but this ^ actually is a non argument. Claiming that something is the case by presenting a singular case where it happens is an informal fallacy. If there would be a player that could rape everybody with a hatchet, we would not assume that hatchet is OP would we ?

It's a pretty legitimate argument, while yours seems to be a bit flawed. If someone was wrecking everyone else on the server with a hatchet, is the hatchet OP? Well, first we must ask ourselves a simple question: would they be wrecking everyone even harder if they were using a better weapon? Odds are, the answer would be yes, or at the very least if they were literally killing every single enemy without getting hit once while using the hatchet, then they could only hope to tie that perfection with a 'better' weapon... but that is very likely not going to be the case. So therefore, we can only conclude that the player is OP and needs a nerf, not the hatchet.

The same, however, cannot be said for the aforementioned NA archers. While they are fairly adept at melee fighting, falling in somewhere around the average crpg skill level if not perhaps a little higher, they are far better archers than they are melee fighters. Does this mean archery is OP? Not at all... it merely shows that someone who is good with a hatchet can be even better with a stronger weapon, in this case a bow.
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: witchkun on March 14, 2017, 11:40:00 am
- wipe
- return to pre-high level patch - where 30-32 level is standard, 34-36 max
- remove slot restrictions
- one day a week allow to use ladders
+over9000, yes ,plz :| MAKE CRPG GREATE AGAIN! remove this shitty 200wpf or 100+ in everything builds, they r ruining the game :|
and rescale players levels accordintly if wipe is not accepted :|

and slot restrictions is a good thing :) leave it
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: Gurgumul on March 14, 2017, 04:44:45 pm
Everyone (except archers ofc) just admit that you don't want archery buff because archery is annoying as shit and the less archers, the better.
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: XyNox on March 14, 2017, 05:49:00 pm
It's a pretty legitimate argument, while yours seems to be a bit flawed. If someone was wrecking everyone else on the server with a hatchet, is the hatchet OP? Well, first we must ask ourselves a simple question: would they be wrecking everyone even harder if they were using a better weapon? Odds are, the answer would be yes, or at the very least if they were literally killing every single enemy without getting hit once while using the hatchet, then they could only hope to tie that perfection with a 'better' weapon... but that is very likely not going to be the case. So therefore, we can only conclude that the player is OP and needs a nerf, not the hatchet.

The same, however, cannot be said for the aforementioned NA archers. While they are fairly adept at melee fighting, falling in somewhere around the average crpg skill level if not perhaps a little higher, they are far better archers than they are melee fighters. Does this mean archery is OP? Not at all... it merely shows that someone who is good with a hatchet can be even better with a stronger weapon, in this case a bow.

Your reasoning would hold true if it wouldnt be built on the premise that archery skill and melee skill are interchangable/connected, which is evidently not the case. There is no reason to assume that somebody who is good at leading shots and estimating projectile drop is automatically worse/better/equally capable of blocking, footwork and all the other melee centric skillsets and vice versa.

As illogical it is to assume that melee item X is proven to be good, solely because player Y is doing good with it ( which was my initial claim, which you also confirmed ), as illogical it is to assume that class X is proven to be good, solely because player Y is doing good with it. Obviously there are far more factors to consider when analizing the situation such as the playerskill behind the user of said weapon/class, the team class-composition, average playerskill per team, willingness to work together etc.

So no, as much as saying "player X is good with hatchet, hatchet thereby is good weapon" is a non-argument, by the same token the situation doesnt change when making the same argument with "archer" instead of "hatchet". That would be a faulty generalization (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faulty_generalization) par excellence.

Also, I cannot confirm this as I pretty much never visit NA but it seems that your conclusion about the melee skills of those mentioned NA archers is drawn after observing how they perfrom in melee with archer builds instead of playing with a full melee build themselves. Can you say with certainty that those players would still perform "a little higher than average" in melee even with a full melee build of their own or are you just extrapolating your expectations ?
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: Algarn on March 15, 2017, 12:47:00 am
I'll obviously defend archery, but hear me out on this one. I was on EU1 against XyNox, 20 players were playing around that time, and I won most of the fights against he and other archers, or got him/them killed at the very least. Why ? Because even if I was playing a patheticly bad lvl 32 shielder with 3 shield only, my body armor was high enough that his arrows just took around 15-20% per shot, and I wasn't using a plate or anything, just a norman mail and scale gauntlets +3. He basically had to be protected by an entire team, or he'd get wiped in a 1v1 even against mediocre players considering how low his melee ability was.

I'll say it here, I don't think archers should be better than infantrymen, but consider the following : if archers can't move fast (apart from stupid 10 athl builds), don't deal damages unless they're hitting the head (won't ever kill in 1 hit, and will miss most of the time thanks to hit-reg, ping, and MLG dancing), can't get more than 50 body armor (+3 looms) without becoming inaccurate, and can't fight in melee, what are they made for ?

No, archers (and crossbowmen) shouldn't have insane mobility like in the past, where bullshit builds like 18/30 were dominating, no they shouldn't be able to wear plates without consequences, yet they should be able to do two things : shooting accurately, and fighting back. Make shooting longer to do, yet much more damaging (3 bolts to kill a melee player is bullshit, lets be honest), and make them able to hold their ground a bit against mediocre players, I just can't bear those memories when I was getting killed by 2h scrubs in plate since I was barely able to even damage them (with 10PD), or even worse, to be able to do any damage with my melee weapon (30 STR, 5PS + MW grosses messer).
How to do it then ? How to make archery require skill, and make them somewhat better at melee so they fight back instead of running away/kiting, even from fights they should be able to win if they were playing a normal melee character ?

-> Make PD have no penalties at all (on accuracy and damage) above a certain threshold (it'd depend of the max level), and make the PD penalties decrease the more you put PD.
-> Make PD like the horse archery skill : 1 point per 6 STR, and compensate for it by putting the damage bonus/ accuracy penalty to 28% and 28 WPF (at 1PD). This should allow people to go for more power strike and IF, and could make horse archers able to carry a melee weapon instead of relying on lame tactics.
-> Remove entirely the effect of WPF on damage (this should also be done for melee builds), so it depends only on the speed multiplier and PS/PT/PD and weapon damage
-> Implement PD requirements on crossbows, slow their reload time and make them extremely damaging, no one should take more than two bolts to kill.
-> Make the accuracy for bows decent rather early, so that you are accurate, yet slow if you don't have 150+ archery WPF. This means hybridization is possible by putting some melee wpf, I dare to say that shielder archers would be do able, as long as you stick with 1 slot bows.
-> Make ATHL bonus scale down if you hold any ranged weapon in your hands. IIRC, each ATHL point gives a flat 3% increase. I say that above 5, it should go down by 0.75 per point to limit the speed archers can run at while their bow is equipped. (EX : at 6 ATHL, while holding a sword, you have a 18% increase, while you'd have only a 17.25% with a bow. The difference would go up the more agi focused the build is and negate kiting abusers).

This is only do able if the average level is reduced, and if the player counts go back up as before, or this will put archery back in its OP state like at the beginning. Pls Dupre. I want to play cRPG again, I'm like a drug addict waiting desperately some kind of fix.
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: Asheram on March 15, 2017, 02:14:32 am
I was on na1 closing in on sexxy furry with 3 shield only and shield raised I am level 37 with 7if and wearing mw light kuyak armor and was about 4-5ft away from him when he shot me twice with no headshot and I died with my shield raised and he had no guards.
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: Kadeth on March 15, 2017, 04:26:24 am
If what we see on the servers everyday isn't direct evidence of how effective a class is, then what is? I don't know what's going on in EU, but any NA (or Aus) player will be able to confirm that there are many archers frequently topping the scoreboard and frequently getting head shots.
 
Recently on NA I witnessed a number of players rolling anti-archer builds specifically because of how deadly some archers are. Similarly on the Aus servers, half the server would rage quit when a few particular players joined the server because they were just so good. It's not an isolated thing - I'm probably the only person in this community that is retarded enough to have spent hundreds of hours playing on NA, Aus and CHN servers, and one thing very consistent across all communities is archery domination. It's currently a very powerful class that is capable of one shotting people without engaging them. Forgive me for failing to see why it needs to be made more powerful.
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: McKli_PL on March 15, 2017, 08:50:27 am
I'm probably the only person in this community that is retarded enough to have spent hundreds of hours playing on NA, Aus/Eu and CHN servers, and one thing very consistent across all communities is archery domination.
nah mate ur not only addicted to crpg here playing on every server/area :lol: with archery is not so simple to judge if its OP as fuck or bit even nerfed, good archer can counter every class: melee,cav or other range BUT every class can counter them (im talking about real archers not pleb with bows running and doing shit anyway) also the specific problem is not the class problem rather the players playing as archers and in 90% of them are very expierienced players, well i was saying in past that most of archers are able to adapt every mechanic of crpg very fast : movement,blocking/atacking,shooting, dodging procetiles, map controling, focusing targets, crucial timmings, hitreg and alot more yet most of melee players/cav from past or till now are just fucking TOOLS, playing same tactics, doing same blunders, falling into same traps but we freaking can't  :!: buff archery because like Hesky mentioned every tiny/little/small buff will be crucial for good archers for raping even more other classes  :D and we cant loose more ppl even if archery is bit nerfed
(it is) but good archers can adapt better than the other tools  :lol:
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: zottlmarsch on March 15, 2017, 05:24:27 pm
Are banners fixed yet?
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: Asheram on March 15, 2017, 06:32:33 pm
Are banners fixed yet?
I dont know are they?
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: Yeldur on March 15, 2017, 10:28:29 pm
It's an homage to the percentage of time that the devs themselves work
fucking loled
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: Algarn on March 17, 2017, 01:45:18 am
If what we see on the servers everyday isn't direct evidence of how effective a class is, then what is? I don't know what's going on in EU, but any NA (or Aus) player will be able to confirm that there are many archers frequently topping the scoreboard and frequently getting head shots.
 
Recently on NA I witnessed a number of players rolling anti-archer builds specifically because of how deadly some archers are. Similarly on the Aus servers, half the server would rage quit when a few particular players joined the server because they were just so good. It's not an isolated thing - I'm probably the only person in this community that is retarded enough to have spent hundreds of hours playing on NA, Aus and CHN servers, and one thing very consistent across all communities is archery domination. It's currently a very powerful class that is capable of one shotting people without engaging them. Forgive me for failing to see why it needs to be made more powerful.

Not more powerful, but more risk vs reward oriented. Ranged in general requires little skill if you're in an advantageous position, since you launch another missile in no time and got cover/infantry support. There's something wrong when I can take on two archers without a shield, or take 3 bolts to get killed even if I'm not wearing a plate. Overall, the fights should've been made even deadlier from the beginning. But perhaps it's just me being addicted to 1 hit kill games, and watching my character shrugging off arrows just tickles my mind.
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: Jona on March 17, 2017, 03:00:22 pm
There's something wrong when I can take on two archers without a shield

Yeah, what's wrong is the archers suck.

take 3 bolts to get killed even if I'm not wearing a plate.

Well the thing with ranged is people on the receiving end never know just how much damage the projectile SHOULD be doing. Did you get hit by a fully loomed, high level pure str longbow archer with bodkins, or a level 5 short bow user with unloomed regular arrows? Same with bolts... were you hit by steel bolts from an arbalest, or regular bolts from a light crossbow? They are nearly indistinguishable at times, especially when the projectile is embedded in your torso, or arm, or leg. Speaking of which, even bolts or arrows that should be dealing a lot of damage don't do much at all when they hit your arm or leg... so keep that in mind when counting just how many bolts you can take... even a peasant could tank a few if they barely grazed their pinky toe.
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: njames89 on March 17, 2017, 03:58:01 pm
2 archers that don't suck could kill you easily Algarn. Come test your mettle in NA 1 you silly europeon
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: zottlmarsch on March 18, 2017, 01:00:49 am
Are banners fixed yet?
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: AwesomeHail on March 18, 2017, 03:45:12 pm
The only thing I want is 1h no shield to be guud again,
Being headshot at spawn is no fun, or being stunned by an arrow, and then being stunned by another in thesame time, and so on. The rage will never end as long as archers exist
Title: Re: cRPG update and new ideas. Need feedback.
Post by: Yeldur on March 18, 2017, 10:32:12 pm
ok i have solution


we will burn all the archers at the stake and then c-rpg will be happy once more


oh and also we will torture horse archers for 2 years and then, ONLY then will we let them die. maybe. if they win the raffle.