cRPG

Off Topic => General Off Topic => Topic started by: Xant on December 09, 2015, 07:19:15 pm

Title: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Xant on December 09, 2015, 07:19:15 pm
https://www.reddit.com/r/watchpeopledie

Some interesting links there. I've never understood why people agree to being executed. It's not like they have anything to lose.


No Germans because Germany is a nanny state.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Grytviken on December 09, 2015, 07:37:09 pm
https://www.reddit.com/r/watchpeopledie

Some interesting links there. I've never understood why people agree to being executed. It's not like they have anything to lose.


No Germans because Germany is a nanny state.

Because you're not seeing the full story.  They drug and torture people and tell them they might let other hostages live or avoid a similar fate if they comply with their propaganda shit.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Teeth on December 09, 2015, 07:51:01 pm
In some situations they have a quick and painful death to lose, though some situations you have a quick death to win and then I don't get it either.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: WarLord on December 09, 2015, 09:18:23 pm
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Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Asheram on December 09, 2015, 09:24:54 pm
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Xant on December 09, 2015, 09:27:46 pm
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I told you no Germans. Why didn't you listen?

But let's all take a moment off from our busy days to laugh at Germany and how it bans subreddits from its users because it judges they're too fragile. Nanny state at its finest!
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: IR_Kuoin on December 09, 2015, 09:30:22 pm
Übermensch alrite
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on December 09, 2015, 09:40:47 pm
I told you no Germans. Why didn't you listen?

But let's all take a moment off from our busy days to laugh at Germany and how it bans subreddits from its users because it judges they're too fragile. Nanny state at its finest!

But the Bundesprüfstelle für jugendgefährdende Medien has to protect our youth from the evil Internet!
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: pepejul on December 09, 2015, 09:42:43 pm
I understand why Xant lives into fear... he watch so many horror videos, his brain is polluted.

Poor ittle boy...
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: WarLord on December 09, 2015, 10:11:43 pm
I told you no Germans. Why didn't you listen?

But let's all take a moment off from our busy days to laugh at Germany and how it bans subreddits from its users because it judges they're too fragile. Nanny state at its finest!

I thought the title of the video or whatever would be "No Germans allowed" tbh  :lol:
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Xant on December 09, 2015, 10:13:34 pm
I understand why Xant lives into fear... he watch so many horror videos, his brain is polluted.

Poor ittle boy...
What you're too naïve and stupid to understand is that perceptions don't alter reality. You not being afraid won't stop your family from being killed by someone who wants to kill them. A gun would.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: pepejul on December 09, 2015, 11:30:03 pm
Pple with guns are weak.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Christo on December 09, 2015, 11:51:01 pm
Pple with guns are weak.

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Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Asheram on December 10, 2015, 01:02:31 am
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Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Turkhammer on December 10, 2015, 03:43:41 am
Pple with guns are weak.

Guns are tools pepe, just like hammers and saws.  Would you say a mother with a baby, defending herself in her house against two armed men breaking in, is weak?  Or is a old man defending himself against attack by several youths also weak?  These are two actual incidents among many others.  Your view is too simplistic and ideological. 
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Xant on December 10, 2015, 09:26:15 am
Pple with guns are weak.
You utter hypocrite. You have zero arguments yourself and still have the nerve to attack other people for not arguing properly with you. You're worse than Tovi when it comes to dodging arguments that you can't engage because you only have emotions on your side.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Vibe on December 10, 2015, 09:29:54 am
r/watchpeopledie has some juicy stuff indeed
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: LordBerenger on December 10, 2015, 09:44:52 am
Guns will be useless when cybernetic weapons are introduced and Mass Effect styled biotics powers are introduced. When Guns and oil are irrelevant the fun will begin.

Plus then the middle easterners can't whine about evil foreigners wanting to steal their oil.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Grytviken on December 10, 2015, 10:17:39 am
Guns will be useless when cybernetic weapons are introduced and Mass Effect styled biotics powers are introduced. When Guns and oil are irrelevant the fun will begin.

Plus then the middle easterners can't whine about evil foreigners wanting to steal their oil.

   lasers are the future

Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Paul on December 10, 2015, 10:23:59 am
Nah, unless there is am major breakthrough in storing electric energy, chemical reaction propelled projectiles will still be number one for personal weapons.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Vovka on December 10, 2015, 10:26:54 am
I wondering in how many years the soldiers serving on this ship turned into ghoul  :P
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Overdriven on December 10, 2015, 10:27:12 am
Nah, unless there is am major breakthrough in storing electric energy, chemical reaction propelled projectiles will still be number one for personal weapons.

Star Wars does not lie!
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Grytviken on December 10, 2015, 10:48:51 am
Nah, unless there is am major breakthrough in storing electric energy, chemical reaction propelled projectiles will still be number one for personal weapons.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_pumping would still be utilizing a chemical propellant to charge the lazer.

They might be able to store the energy in small rods in the future, a smaller anti-personel laser wouldn't require as much energy.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Vovka on December 10, 2015, 11:52:18 am
future Armour
(click to show/hide)

and cheapest option
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Xant on December 10, 2015, 12:14:39 pm
Nah, unless there is am major breakthrough in storing electric energy, chemical reaction propelled projectiles will still be number one for personal weapons.
Are you mad that you can't see r/watchpeopledie Paul? Does it make you angry? Upset? I can tell you're upset.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Xant on December 10, 2015, 12:20:33 pm
https://www.reddit.com/r/watchpeopledie/comments/3w4sfp/son_kills_himself_in_front_of_parents_with/

Quote
Somebody shoots themselves and everybody starts break dancing, what a magical place.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Butan on December 10, 2015, 12:55:17 pm
Nah, unless there is am major breakthrough in storing electric energy, chemical reaction propelled projectiles will still be number one for personal weapons.

Trust the military for major breakthrough  :P
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on December 10, 2015, 01:02:21 pm
Are you mad that you can't see r/watchpeopledie Paul? Does it make you angry? Upset? I can tell you're upset.

come on, it's not that hard to google the workaround.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Paul on December 10, 2015, 01:10:51 pm
Fun fact: I censor my own eyes. Most of the times I see a gif or video with people getting wrecked inbound, I just don't click it. I probably lack the healthy amount of sociopathic curiosity that made /rekt/ threads a thing. Nobody is perfect.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Xant on December 10, 2015, 01:16:21 pm
come on, it's not that hard to google the workaround.
That's not the point, Bloody Nine, that's not the point at all.

Fun fact: I censor my own eyes. Most of the times I see a gif or video with people getting wrecked inbound, I just don't click it. I probably lack the healthy amount of sociopathic curiosity that made /rekt/ threads a thing. Nobody is perfect.

That does sound like a pretty big disadvantage. Would you be interested in a sociopathic tutor?
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: pepejul on December 10, 2015, 01:25:55 pm
Gun will never replace a penis + brain combo

Deal with it.

99,9%  of pple around you is not dangerous. Being armed only for the 0.1% who can attack you is proof of weakness. Stop watching videos of murders and assassination, it is damaging you weak child brain.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Umbra on December 10, 2015, 01:27:53 pm
I have a better subreddit for yall

https://www.reddit.com/r/CucumbersScaringCats/
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Xant on December 10, 2015, 01:30:09 pm
Gun will never replace a penis + brain combo

Deal with it.

99,9%  of pple around you is not dangerous. Being armed only for the 0.1% who can attack you is proof of weakness. Stop watching videos of murders and assassination, it is damaging you weak child brain.
Being called pepejul is proof of weakness. Deal with it.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Molly on December 10, 2015, 02:21:26 pm
   lasers are the future

Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Ujin on December 10, 2015, 02:53:35 pm
Ah, i used to watch this kinda shit in my late teen years (curiosity and such).
Just recently, like a week ago, went on one of those weird internet serf-trips and ended up on a gore website (don't remember the name), mostly watched things that are going on in the Middle-East, especially Syria, right now. After watching that i can positively say that there is some PURE evil out there in this world that just needs to be exterminated asap. I mean, the beheadings are just a regular everyday kinda thing that these people do, even the child soldiers.
There are videos (filmed with GoPro or something similar, so it's HD-quality) of ISIS (and similar terrorist groups)  executing prisoners in the most diabolical ways a human mind can come up with, like burning people alive trapped inside a car, or locking several of prisoners inside a large cage and then lowering the cage into a pool, drowning them to death etc. There's no turning point for these people, then need to be put down.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Vibe on December 10, 2015, 03:15:26 pm
Ah, i used to watch this kinda shit in my late teen years (curiosity and such).
Just recently, like a week ago, went on one of those weird internet serf-trips and ended up on a gore website (don't remember the name), mostly watched things that are going on in the Middle-East, especially Syria, right now. After watching that i can positively say that there is some PURE evil out there in this world that just needs to be exterminated asap. I mean, the beheadings are just a regular everyday kinda thing that these people do, even the child soldiers.
There are videos (filmed with GoPro or something similar, so it's HD-quality) of ISIS (and similar terrorist groups) prisoners being executed in the most diabolical ways a human mind can come up with, like burning people alive trapped inside a car, or locking several of prisoners inside a large cage and then lowering the cage into a pool, drowning them to death etc. There's no turning point for these people, then need to be put down.

There's a training/recruitement video of ISIS children age around 9 walking around some ruins and shooting prisoners. Not that gory, but still pretty sik
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Vovka on December 10, 2015, 03:20:22 pm
There's a training/recruitement video of ISIS children age around 9 walking around some ruins and shooting prisoners. Not that gory, but still pretty sik
they spit on Western values and do not show respect for the LGBT community,
http://www.gaystarnews.com/article/gay-syrians-react-to-us-uk-and-france-launching-air-strikes-on-their-country/#gs.wS1aMX8
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Paul on December 10, 2015, 05:15:17 pm
Now we know where you people get your news from.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Tibe on December 10, 2015, 07:43:59 pm
they spit on Western values and do not show respect for the LGBT community,
http://www.gaystarnews.com/article/gay-syrians-react-to-us-uk-and-france-launching-air-strikes-on-their-country/#gs.wS1aMX8

Yeah. You know vüvka. For some time I thought that whenever we argued I was the retarded one and you werent. But somehow im starting to think you are a tard aswell. Because in the Rus threads you called out on my bullshit and I kinda even believed you. But now, you clearly have started to show how fcking little you actually know about the West and im pretty confident you dont know shit about your own country aswell. You just randomly bash a country or something with some random gibberish. You are like Leshma and his USA bashing. "You bastards killed the indians".  :lol:

VVöwka plz.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Leshma on December 10, 2015, 08:18:20 pm
Vovka knows about west everything there is to know and because of that he's constantly trolling. At least that's my impression of him.

It is really hard to avoid trolling some people, especially some specimen that are too thick for their own good and yet somehow manage to lead normal life. Like Thomek, for example.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Christo on December 10, 2015, 08:27:02 pm
Gun will never replace a penis + brain combo

Deal with it.

99,9%  of pple around you is not dangerous. Being armed only for the 0.1% who can attack you is proof of weakness. Stop watching videos of murders and assassination, it is damaging you weak child brain.

So if I bludgeon you to death with a sledgehammer, that is not a sign of weakness right? Takes some muscle to swing that shit around

But crossbows are so evil, better ban them because they are overpowered and dishonrabru. ('tis ok to shot heathens tho)
What is this the fucking medieval age? Really this is the argument you would use, you sound like some barbarian or something.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Sir_Hans on December 11, 2015, 03:25:24 am
penis + brain combo is a myth.
You either think with your penis or you think with your brain. It's like a light switch... It's one or the other.

Even if you did somehow reach an enlightened state of zen penis brain thinking equality you wouldn't be able to dodge bullets or win a war w/ epic kung fu like neo in matrix.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: pepejul on December 11, 2015, 03:56:18 pm
You are not in danger in streets... carrying a gun against hypotetical terrorist you meet is just like wearing pillow suit because some cars could hit you when you cross the road.
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Someone wearing a pillow-suit in town is a stupid fearfull weak moron isn't it ?

guns are pillow-suit for frightened chickens
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Leshma on December 11, 2015, 04:04:10 pm
Pepe posting in a thread:

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Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Butan on December 11, 2015, 04:45:24 pm
You are not in danger in streets... carrying a gun against hypotetical terrorist you meet is just like wearing pillow suit because some cars could hit you when you cross the road.
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Someone wearing a pillow-suit in town is a stupid fearfull weak moron isn't it ?

guns are pillow-suit for frightened chickens

A gun is not a only-against-terrorists tool.
It would not be extremely interesting to carry one 99% of the time, but the remaining 1% matters. Then of course, it depends how far you're ready to go to defend yourself, and where do you live.

Guns are not for scared people, its a tool that can be used, simple as that.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Clockworkkiller on December 11, 2015, 04:57:04 pm
Reminder that if you don't like guns you are mentally ill, female, undeveloped, and should not reproduce
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Xant on December 11, 2015, 05:49:20 pm
You are not in danger in streets... carrying a gun against hypotetical terrorist you meet is just like wearing pillow suit because some cars could hit you when you cross the road.
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Someone wearing a pillow-suit in town is a stupid fearfull weak moron isn't it ?

guns are pillow-suit for frightened chickens
The irony of course being the fact that you're the only fearful coward here, irrationally afraid of guns.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: pepejul on December 11, 2015, 06:23:10 pm
I m not afraid at all... becaus I know pple with guns are weak...  :mrgreen:

Pple with guns are more dangerous than pple without gun. Increase pple with gun = increase danger.

It is simple.

I remind you I really LOVE guns, I love hunting, I love WWII weapons and new technological weaponry like lasers, intelligent miisiles..etc.

I just don't want pple with gun in my streets. Especially nervous frightened young morons who watch violence and fight videos everyninght and think everybody can be an enemy. Theses guys can fire on children if they think they are terrorist children.

Maybe this one could be usefull :
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At least it kills only the stupid guy who hold it and not the children on the other side.


Just look at these numbers and explain me why they died ?
http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/child-injured-killed



Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Turkhammer on December 11, 2015, 06:32:58 pm
I m not afraid at all... becaus I know pple with guns are weak...  :mrgreen:

Pple with guns are more dangerous than pple without gun. Increase pple with gun = increase danger.

It is simple.

I remind you I really LOVE guns, I love hunting, I love WWII weapons and new technological weaponry like lasers, intelligent miisiles..etc.

I just don't want pple with gun in my streets. Especially nervous frightened young morons who watch violence and fight videos everyninght and think everybody can be an enemy. Theses guys can fire on children if they think they are terrorist children.

Maybe this one could be usefull :
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

At least it kills only the stupid guy who hold it and not the children on the other side.


Just look at these numbers and explain me why they died ?
http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/child-injured-killed

How many people with guns do you find on your streets pepe?
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Xant on December 11, 2015, 06:50:56 pm
I m not afraid at all... becaus I know pple with guns are weak...  :mrgreen:

Pple with guns are more dangerous than pple without gun. Increase pple with gun = increase danger.

It is simple.

I remind you I really LOVE guns, I love hunting, I love WWII weapons and new technological weaponry like lasers, intelligent miisiles..etc.

I just don't want pple with gun in my streets. Especially nervous frightened young morons who watch violence and fight videos everyninght and think everybody can be an enemy. Theses guys can fire on children if they think they are terrorist children.

Maybe this one could be usefull :
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

At least it kills only the stupid guy who hold it and not the children on the other side.


Just look at these numbers and explain me why they died ?
http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/child-injured-killed
So you admit you're weak and afraid of guns. Ok. It's fine to be a coward.

Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: IR_Kuoin on December 11, 2015, 11:47:43 pm
The weapon does not make the murderer, it's the person.  8-)
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Asheram on December 12, 2015, 12:09:35 am
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: pepejul on December 12, 2015, 03:10:00 am
I don't see any pple with gun (except police) in my streets cause in my Country (France) we are stronk and proud, we don't need guns. We just drink wine and look the gentle pple peacfully walking in our streets...

This life is better than your fearfull weaponery fear.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Clockworkkiller on December 12, 2015, 04:20:17 am
Pepe logic: gun are weak! More gun more danger! gun is evil

But pepe, here are facts and knowledge to prove otherwise.

Pepe: no, gun evil! Gun is dangerous! Gun are weak pple! I am right! You are wrong!
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Sir_Hans on December 12, 2015, 04:47:31 am
Reminder that if you don't like guns you are mentally ill, female, undeveloped, and should not reproduce

oh shit welcome back clockwork, join the party  :wink:
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Xant on December 12, 2015, 08:21:21 am
I don't see any pple with gun (except police) in my streets cause in my Country (France) we are stronk and proud, we don't need guns. We just drink wine and look the gentle pple peacfully walking in our streets...

This life is better than your fearfull weaponery fear.
No pepe, you're weak, see how the terrorists shot 130 French dead and wounded hundreds.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Tibe on December 12, 2015, 11:23:49 am
Pepe logic: gun are weak! More gun more danger! gun is evil

But pepe, here are facts and knowledge to prove otherwise.

Pepe: no, gun evil! Gun is dangerous! Gun are weak pple! I am right! You are wrong!

What exactly were those facts?  The main FACT here is that in the US you do need a gun to defend yourself against other people with guns. In other decent countries, you dont. Nobody has even thrown the option to liberate their gunlaws up for debate here. Cause theres really no need for it. Which is why I dont really understand why Xant is so pro-gun. Has goofy Finland really turned into such a hostile place, or is he just so personally paranoid that he's to scared to sleep at night without a firearm? Trust me man, if the slight chance of you ending up at gunpoint happens once in 10 years, you wont even have that piece on you. :lol:

Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Xant on December 12, 2015, 11:43:24 am
What exactly were those facts?  The main FACT here is that in the US you do need a gun to defend yourself against other people with guns.
No, the main fact here is that in the US you have the option to have a gun on you to even the odds. Criminals can get guns in every country.


Quote
In other decent countries, you dont.
False.

Quote
Which is why I dont really understand why Xant is so pro-gun.

Because I'm not afraid of guns and I'm not pro-nanny state.

Quote
or is he just so personally paranoid that he's to scared to sleep at night without a firearm?
That's called psychological projection. You're afraid so you're projecting your fear on me. Sorry, I'm not scared or paranoid -- the opposite, in fact. Since guns are such an emotionally charged and scary subject for you that you can't think clearly, here's an analogy: if Joe says "let's not ban kitchen knives" and Bob says "no, no, let's ban kitchen knives!" which one is scared? Joe or Bob? Hard question, I know.

Quote
Trust me man, if the slight chance of you ending up at gunpoint happens once in 10 years, you wont even have that piece on you. :lol:
Why would I trust you? What a retarded assumption. Why wouldn't I have a gun on me "when I need it"?
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Sir_Hans on December 12, 2015, 12:05:45 pm
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You can stop being afraid now pepe... Chances are you will die by something else, even if u visit merica.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Xant on December 12, 2015, 12:07:13 pm
And the "assault by a firearm" goes down by a whole lot if you're not a young black male living in a ghetto...
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Sir_Hans on December 12, 2015, 12:10:44 pm
(click to show/hide)

You can stop being afraid now pepe... Chances are you will die by something else, even if u visit merica.

And the "assault by a firearm" goes down by a whole lot if you're not a young black male living in a ghetto...

Well, yeah.

I bet about 75% of all assault by firearm involved drugs, gangs, police or domestic violence where victims were related to murderer.

Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Tibe on December 12, 2015, 12:42:19 pm
No, the main fact here is that in the US you have the option to have a gun on you to even the odds. Criminals can get guns in every country.
How many criminals with guns have you seen in Finland?

False.
Not really.
 
Because I'm not afraid of guns and I'm not pro-nanny state.
Lets arm everyone with nuclear weapons. Lets have proper non-nanny freedom state.

That's called psychological projection. You're afraid so you're projecting your fear on me. Sorry, I'm not scared or paranoid -- the opposite, in fact. Since guns are such an emotionally charged and scary subject for you that you can't think clearly, here's an analogy: if Joe says "let's not ban kitchen knives" and Bob says "no, no, let's ban kitchen knives!" which one is scared? Joe or Bob? Hard question, I know.

Well. Yeah. Ofcourse im scared. Long distance murder weapons that really serve no other purpose to society but to "protect an individual and his family when neccessary". Ofcourse being necessary is so fucking relative. And its really not a projection if you are scared too. You clearly claimed that you are scared that criminals might outgun you. You dont have any factual backing of that. Which makes it nothing more than a fear. In Finland people punch eachother and stab.

Why would I trust you? What a retarded assumption. Why wouldn't I have a gun on me "when I need it"?

Why would you? Do you claim that whenever you go out you will arm yourself always? The other point is that if an agressive tard suddenly does pull a gun on you specifically on the street, you would be lucky as fuck to even reach your gun and aim it back at him before getting shot in the face yourself. The big problem with "defending" yourself with a gun against a gunman is that you can never see the fucker coming.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: the real god emperor on December 12, 2015, 01:25:58 pm
Why did this thread turn into a gun argument thread

OP link has much more disgusting shit than that , kid's mom getting executed and shit , wtf is all this , wish I lived in Germany and never seen that shit.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Xant on December 12, 2015, 01:30:24 pm
How many criminals with guns have you seen in Finland?
Five or so.

Quote
Not really.
Prove it.

Quote
Lets arm everyone with nuclear weapons. Lets have proper non-nanny freedom state.
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/slippery-slope

Quote
Well. Yeah. Ofcourse im scared.
And there we have it.

Quote
Long distance murder weapons that really serve no other purpose to society but to "protect an individual and his family when neccessary".
Plenty other purposes as well, like collecting and target shooting and hunting. Not that the right to protect yourself isn't enough.

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And its really not a projection if you are scared too.
Yes. Except I'm not; and you, self-admittedly, are. Therefore it is a projection.

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You clearly claimed that you are scared that criminals might outgun you.
Nope.

Quote
You dont have any factual backing of that. Which makes it nothing more than a fear. In Finland people punch eachother and stab.
Factual backing for something I never said? By golly, you're right. I should make sure to have factual backing for everyone else's imaginary scenarios from now on.

Quote
Why would you? Do you claim that whenever you go out you will arm yourself always? The other point is that if an agressive tard suddenly does pull a gun on you specifically on the street, you would be lucky as fuck to even reach your gun and aim it back at him before getting shot in the face yourself. The big problem with "defending" yourself with a gun against a gunman is that you can never see the fucker coming.
If I had a CCW permit, yes, why wouldn't I arm myself always? And again, stop projecting. You wouldn't see it coming. You wouldn't have time to reach for your gun before getting shot in the face.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Tibe on December 12, 2015, 01:43:43 pm
I could debate with you endlessly. But I suppose you seeing someone elses viewpoint other than his own, is just asking too much. Which makes basically every attempt futile.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Xant on December 12, 2015, 01:45:16 pm
I could debate with you endlessly. But I suppose you seeing someone elses viewpoint other than his own, is just asking too much. Which makes basically every attempt futile.
That makes literally no sense considering what you've said previously. You haven't been offering "your viewpoint", you've been claiming I'm scared and paranoid and that I wouldn't have my gun with me, etc., i.e., just making shit up.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Tibe on December 12, 2015, 01:53:39 pm
Honestly, you made no fcking sense either. So I decided to not bother. And what else is a claim that "criminals get guns anyway, I need one too", than fear and paranoia?
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Xant on December 12, 2015, 01:55:54 pm
Honestly, you made no fcking sense either.
Amazing, that has all the information value of a "no u" or perhaps a "omg ur dumb." Perhaps you should join a debate team.


Quote
So I decided to not bother.
I can see why you'd feel that way when you realized you had no leg to stand on.

Quote
And what else is a claim that "criminals get guns anyway, I need one too", than fear and paranoia?
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Tibe on December 12, 2015, 02:04:43 pm
You arent worthy of anything more than "no u". I had a leg. Why bother to stand with it, while you are the type of person who just quickly tapes one randomly together and tries desperately to stand with it.

The slippery slope fallacity was accurate yes. And I commonly use that one and I believe it works. But that really wasnt a strawman and you didnt awnser it. What else is a claim that "criminals get guns anyway, I need one too", than fear and paranoia? From a person who lives in a country where gunviolence and guns are barely even existent.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Xant on December 12, 2015, 02:12:53 pm
You arent worthy of anything more than "no u".
You mean you aren't capable of anything more than a "no u." Your desperate attempts to rationalize your way out of a losing argument are rather pitiful, Tibe. You already made long posts to me, then suddenly, when I call you on your made up crap, you can't say anything more than "no u"? Uh-huh, do tell us more.

Quote
I had a leg. Why bother to stand with it, while you are the type of person who just quickly tapes one randomly together and tries desperately to stand with it.
Citation needed. Show us some examples. What's that? You can't?

Quote
But that really wasnt a strawman and you didnt awnser it.
Yes it was. Show me where I said that.

Quote
What else is a claim that "criminals get guns anyway, I need one too", than fear and paranoia?
Show me where I said that.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Tibe on December 12, 2015, 02:25:26 pm
Dude. For fucks sake. You tape more legs together. Even if I kick a few down you just keep going. Id rather lose an argument than spend all day making 50 long posts with a guy who desperately crawls his way to be on top of an argument. I think ive proven more than enough that im willing to lose an argument if it is a solid one. Ive done so in the past and claimed im in the wrong.

You just throw some absolutely agressive gibberish towards the poster than the actual point. And you didnt really awnser to anything I asked. Which made me just quit on early. You may now proceed to slander me and claim I was full of shit. Im done replying.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Xant on December 12, 2015, 02:36:11 pm
Dude. For fucks sake. You tape more legs together. Even if I kick a few down you just keep going.
Newsflash: just because you say something doesn't make it so. I asked you to provide an example. You failed. Instead you repeat the same claim. Are you trying to collect all logical fallacies?
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/begging-the-question


Quote
Id rather lose an argument than spend all day making 50 long posts with a guy who desperately crawls his way to be on top of an argument. I think ive proven more than enough that im willing to lose an argument if it is a solid one. Ive done so in the past and claimed im in the wrong.
Three sentences where you're trying to justify your inability to provide coherent, logical arguments with irrelevant accusations and details.

Quote
You just throw some absolutely agressive gibberish towards the poster than the actual point. And you didnt really awnser to anything I asked. Which made me just quit on early. You may now proceed to slander me and claim I was full of shit. Im done replying.
How can I answer your questions when you're claiming I've said things I haven't said? I asked you twice to show me where I said what you claimed I said. Again, you failed to do so. Want to know why? Because you can't show something that doesn't exist. And the most hilarious thing is that you can't see how retarded your claims are. It's like me saying
"Tibe, you said ice cream causes nuclear wars. How do they cause nuclear wars?"
"I never said that, Xant."
"OMG TIBE WHY CANT YOU ANSWER MY QUESTIONS???? THIS IS WHY I QUIT EARLY."
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Butan on December 12, 2015, 03:08:25 pm
You just throw some absolutely agressive gibberish towards the poster than the actual point. And you didnt really awnser to anything I asked. Which made me just quit on early. You may now proceed to slander me and claim I was full of shit. Im done replying.

Congratulations, you now receive the "I've tried debating with Xant once" certificate  :P

As a note: as soon as he uses a https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/xxx, its better bailing out.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Sandersson Jankins on December 12, 2015, 03:25:18 pm
A big talking point for detractors of well-armed self defense practices

(click to show/hide)

seems to be the statement that if you were suddenly met with an armed foe, you would be at such a severe disadvantage that being armed is meaningless for you. That is all fine and well, but let me bring at least a little bit of freshness into "my side" of the argument.

I'll let the usual suspects handle the ideological debate, but there are potential threats aside from nasty, unsavory humans. It is highly unfortunate, but some of those nasty humans will poorly train dogs of vicious disposition. Even worse, there are the real scumbags that train the things to fight one another. Now sometimes, these "wow why don't we execute these cunts" types will allow their killer pooches to run around freely. When confronted with a pitbull looking to perforate my femoral artery, I'm NOT gonna want to rely on my own two hands, feet, and teeth to bring me through that confrontation. I'm going to want a semi-automatic pistol of no lower than .380 calibre with no fewer than 8 rounds. Those doggies can be absolute TERRORS.

And that is just a particularly horrific example. I keep muh precious chickens, as I've posted here a couple times, and I don't really want to tangle with a rabid coon or hungry coyote looking for free poultry....least, not with a bat or club. If I hit a deer on the way home and maim the poor critter, I'm going to want a method to quickly put the thing down. There are myriad uses for a good ole' rooty-tooty-point-n'-shooty aside from blasting bad guys.

That being said, I am only concerned with my own legal possession and carry of firearms. I'm in a place that is very kind to that concern. I've also never even lived in an apartment, much less actually used public transportation (lol what's that). My perspective is wildly different from others. But I adore living in semi-rural America. Least the bit I'm in, anyway.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Gravoth_iii on December 12, 2015, 03:33:48 pm
Edgiest thread on forum.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Xant on December 12, 2015, 03:39:56 pm
Congratulations, you now receive the "I've tried debating with Xant once" certificate  :P

As a note: as soon as he uses a https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/xxx, its better bailing out.
Yeah, maybe you could start a "buttraped by Xant in an argument" club or something. It's hilarious that you upvote his posts when he literally fucked up by claiming in 4-5 posts I said something I didn't, and that was his main debating point the whole time. But don't let the facts get in the way of rape victim solidarity, brother!
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Clockworkkiller on December 12, 2015, 04:51:26 pm
I don't understand why youre still trying to debate, the facts are more people defend themselves with firearms than murders with firearms everyyear. That's really the only fucking proof you need
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: pepejul on December 12, 2015, 05:01:24 pm
Imagine this : you are in street and your car doesn't work anymore. You go outside and you cross the grass in little garden of a pretty house with flowers to get some help (phone or gasoline or just to see someone coonforting you).

Suddenly behind the window you see a fearfull scared stupid fuking moron with a gun, he fires on you shouting " GO AWAY TERRORIST ! IT IS MY HOME ! DON'T COME TO CUT OUR THROAT AND RAPE OUR GIRLZ FUCKING MUSLIM !" (yes the guy behind the window has plenty of firearms and watch all the day violent videos about murders and crimes).

You can't hear him cause you got a bullet in your head. end of story.

I don't want that for my country. We have unarmed morons..they are less dangerous behid their windows.

And in guncountries there are more accidents with guns at home than assaults by criminals... you can't denie that.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Clockworkkiller on December 12, 2015, 05:07:36 pm
Imagine this : you are in street and your car doesn't work anymore. You go outside and you cross the grass in little garden of a pretty house with flowers to get some help (phone or gasoline or just to see someone coonforting you).

Suddenly behind the window you see a fearfull scared stupid fuking moron with a gun, he fires on you shouting " GO AWAY TERRORIST ! IT IS MY HOME ! DON'T COME TO CUT OUR THROAT AND RAPE OUR GIRLZ FUCKING MUSLIM !" (yes the guy behind the window has plenty of firearms and watch all the day violent videos about murders and crimes).

You can't hear him cause you got a bullet in your head. end of story.

I don't want that for my country. We have unarmed morons..they are less dangerous behid their windows.

And in guncountries there are more accidents with guns at home than assaults by criminals... you can't denie that.

Yea that doesn't happen here, buddy
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Xant on December 12, 2015, 05:10:08 pm
Imagine this : you are in street and your car doesn't work anymore. You go outside and you cross the grass in little garden of a pretty house with flowers to get some help (phone or gasoline or just to see someone coonforting you).

Suddenly behind the window you see a fearfull scared stupid fuking moron with a gun, he fires on you shouting " GO AWAY TERRORIST ! IT IS MY HOME ! DON'T COME TO CUT OUR THROAT AND RAPE OUR GIRLZ FUCKING MUSLIM !" (yes the guy behind the window has plenty of firearms and watch all the day violent videos about murders and crimes).

You can't hear him cause you got a bullet in your head. end of story.

I don't want that for my country. We have unarmed morons..they are less dangerous behid their windows.

And in guncountries there are more accidents with guns at home than assaults by criminals... you can't denie that.
Imagine this: you're minding your own business, suddenly, BAM, a fire truck lands on your head. Ban fire trucks.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on December 12, 2015, 06:39:12 pm
Jeez pepe stop it, you make me ashamed of being against private firearms.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Tibe on December 12, 2015, 07:02:12 pm
Jeez pepe stop it, you make me ashamed of being against private firearms.

Yeah, pepe what the shit.  :lol:
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Turkhammer on December 12, 2015, 07:10:03 pm
I don't see any pple with gun (except police) in my streets cause in my Country (France) we are stronk and proud, we don't need guns. We just drink wine and look the gentle pple peacfully walking in our streets...

This life is better than your fearfull weaponery fear.

Then you are obsessed and fearful about something that has absolutely no effect on you.  Or is it that you fear that France will catch gun fever from the US and suddenly make it legal for civilians to carry weapons?  Are you planning a family vacation to the US and fear getting shot the second you get off the plane? 

Or are you just a crusading evangelist, with a fevered imagination, who must have everyone think and believe as he does?
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Butan on December 12, 2015, 07:13:55 pm
Jeez pepe stop it, you make me ashamed of being against private firearms.


I'm for private firearms, and still ashamed.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Sir_Hans on December 12, 2015, 07:25:30 pm
I wonder what it's like to be a student in pepe's classroom?
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Gravoth_iii on December 13, 2015, 01:10:20 am
Imagine this : you are in street and your car doesn't work anymore. You go outside and you cross the grass in little garden of a pretty house with flowers to get some help (phone or gasoline or just to see someone coonforting you).

Suddenly behind the window you see a fearfull scared stupid fuking moron with a gun, he fires on you shouting " GO AWAY TERRORIST ! IT IS MY HOME ! DON'T COME TO CUT OUR THROAT AND RAPE OUR GIRLZ FUCKING MUSLIM !" (yes the guy behind the window has plenty of firearms and watch all the day violent videos about murders and crimes).

You can't hear him cause you got a bullet in your head. end of story.

I don't want that for my country. We have unarmed morons..they are less dangerous behid their windows.

And in guncountries there are more accidents with guns at home than assaults by criminals... you can't denie that.

This is actually embarrassing, stop trying pepe, you are actually having the opposite effect of what youre trying.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on December 13, 2015, 10:54:26 am
I don't understand why youre still trying to debate, the facts are more people defend themselves with firearms than murders with firearms everyyear. That's really the only fucking proof you need

One fact is not a reason to stop top debating.

Fact is also that there are multiple times of gun related homicides in US than in any other developed country. Or other facts are that US
States with tighter gun control laws have fewer gun-related deaths or the states with the most guns report the most suicides. I say my facts are more important than yours, but as with most discussions there are arguments and facts for both sides so the crucial thing is to interpret and weigh those and based on that form an opinion.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: pepejul on December 13, 2015, 11:12:25 am
I notice that : nobody talk about my words "there are more deaths because of firearms in house than from murders" but everybody talks about me and shame...

I m not there to convince you. I just try to show the other way. You seem all ok to say "I m safer with guns at home", I just diagree. No matter for me you are 4 or 5 saying I m stupid.

I keep singing my song : "you don't need a gun if you are a man, guns are for pussies". Deal with it.

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Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Umbra on December 13, 2015, 11:14:59 am
Actually KEK
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Asheram on December 13, 2015, 11:52:10 am
I notice that : nobody talk about my words "there are more deaths because of firearms in house than from murders" but everybody talks about me and shame...

I m not there to convince you. I just try to show the other way. You seem all ok to say "I m safer with guns at home", I just diagree. No matter for me you are 4 or 5 saying I m stupid.

I keep singing my song : "you don't need a gun if you are a man, guns are for pussies". Deal with it.

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Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Tibe on December 13, 2015, 11:55:53 am
I m not there to convince you. I just try to show the other way. You seem all ok to say "I m safer with guns at home", I just diagree. No matter for me you are 4 or 5 saying I m stupid.

Not "all". When it comes to civilian arms I think this community is about halfed in pro and against. One thing we can atleast all agree on is that you are dumbs.  :lol:

Well they arent wrong about that. I am safer with guns at home. But the problem rises when the entire neighbourhood has guns at home too. And a couple of people in it have edgy white teenagers with greasy hair and leather coats and depressed husbands. Who will just grab whatever they can get their hands on thats most destructive.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Xant on December 13, 2015, 12:34:33 pm
I notice that : nobody talk about my words "there are more deaths because of firearms in house than from murders" but everybody talks about me and shame...

I m not there to convince you. I just try to show the other way. You seem all ok to say "I m safer with guns at home", I just diagree. No matter for me you are 4 or 5 saying I m stupid.
White trash not knowing how to keep their guns at their homes safely has no bearing on any semi-intelligent being's safety. But yes, it's probably good for you that you don't own guns.

Quote
I keep singing my song : "you don't need a gun if you are a man, guns are for pussies". Deal with it.
I keep singing my song: "you need guns if you are a man, gunless people are pussies." Deal with it.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Clockworkkiller on December 13, 2015, 06:34:25 pm
One fact is not a reason to stop top debating.

Fact is also that there are multiple times of gun related homicides in US than in any other developed country. Or other facts are that US
States with tighter gun control laws have fewer gun-related deaths or the states with the most guns report the most suicides. I say my facts are more important than yours, but as with most discussions there are arguments and facts for both sides so the crucial thing is to interpret and weigh those and based on that form an opinion.

True, it only makes sense that there are more gun related homicides, but in states with loose gun laws, there is less total crime and homicides than states with strict laws. Remember, there are other forms of violent crime than just murder with a gun.

I keep singing my song : "you don't need a gun if you are a man, guns are for pussies".

Aren't you some kind of pacifist? Don't you piss your pants at the thought of confrontation? You don't have much room to call other people pussies.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Tibe on December 13, 2015, 06:43:40 pm
True, it only makes sense that there are more gun related homicides, but in states with loose gun laws, there is less total crime and homicides than states with strict laws. Remember, there are other forms of violent crime than just murder with a gun.

Its a solid argument. But why would you arm the civilian populations in countries with strict gunlaws, that have extremely low homicide rates already to begin with? Just incase? Do you really believe it would lessen homicides even further?
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Xant on December 13, 2015, 06:47:43 pm
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Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Molly on December 13, 2015, 07:06:25 pm
True, it only makes sense that there are more gun related homicides, but in states with loose gun laws, there is less total crime and homicides than states with strict laws. Remember, there are other forms of violent crime than just murder with a gun.

[...]
The fun that can be had with statistics, right?
Correlation and causality are not necessarily the same.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Turkhammer on December 13, 2015, 07:44:05 pm
I notice that : nobody talk about my words "there are more deaths because of firearms in house than from murders" but everybody talks about me and shame...

I m not there to convince you. I just try to show the other way. You seem all ok to say "I m safer with guns at home", I just diagree. No matter for me you are 4 or 5 saying I m stupid.

I keep singing my song : "you don't need a gun if you are a man, guns are for pussies". Deal with it.


Pepe, I believe you are sincere.  Statistically your statement is probably correct.  But the same could be said of steak knives.  Statistics don't tell the whole story however.  Each case is individual and unique.  For example I am not insane or suicidal.  There are no small children in the house.  When children visit the house the weapon is secured or out of reach under personal control.   I as a mature, independent adult have made the judgement that I face a greater danger from home invasion than I do from having a weapon in the house.  I'm not worried about shooting myself or a family member or neighbor.  Since I know I'm not going to hurt myself or my family with my gun then the stats do not apply.

This happened 2 miles away from me in a small town where violent crime is extremely rare.
(click to show/hide)

4 teens invaded a home in the deep of night with the purpose of a thrill killing.  They killed a mother with 36 blows from a machete and severed the foot of her 11 year old daughter and left her for dead.  The woman was not armed.

If she had been armed and had been able to stop that attack would you have sung your song to her?  Would she have been weak to have used a gun to defend herself?

 
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Xant on December 13, 2015, 07:55:18 pm
What I don't understand is how the pepes of the world can live with themselves, knowing they're unable to defend their family. I guess it's the same thing religious people do when faced with all the evidence: bury your head in the sand and try to ignore everything bad/everything that goes against your worldview.

So how does it feel, Pepejul, knowing that any man is free to rape, murder, assault, harass every member of your family, and you are powerless to do anything about it? What kind of lies do you tell yourself to be able to live with that fact? If you're as loudly obnoxious in real life, that's even worse because you're as defenseless as a newborn baby.

The police can do nothing to stop crimes in progress, they only count the points afterwards.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: pepejul on December 13, 2015, 08:15:35 pm
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THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I TRY TO SAY !!!

GUNS ARE FOR NAZEIZ !!!
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: pepejul on December 13, 2015, 08:23:57 pm
What I don't understand is how the pepes of the world can live with themselves, knowing they're unable to defend their family. I guess it's the same thing religious people do when faced with all the evidence: bury your head in the sand and try to ignore everything bad/everything that goes against your worldview.

So how does it feel, Pepejul, knowing that any man is free to rape, murder, assault, harass every member of your family, and you are powerless to do anything about it? What kind of lies do you tell yourself to be able to live with that fact? If you're as loudly obnoxious in real life, that's even worse because you're as defenseless as a newborn baby.

The police can do nothing to stop crimes in progress, they only count the points afterwards.

My country is country of law. Pple can't make justice by themself. My familly can die more surely from car accident or stone fall from a roof... I keep driving and I still walk intostreets with them.

The danger of an armed man who want to kill or rape them IS ANECDOTIC ! How many chances that it happens (sorry frenchglish) ? Near to zero !

You want me holding a gun when I walk with them in steets ? And shot every man with strange attitude because I think he's a murderer ?

You want me to keep a gun at home in case of attack ? (how many pple are attacked at home per year ? millions ? no...it is so rare !) and if my gun is at home... how can it help me in street ?

I trust police to make the law respected, I trust judges to make justice, I m a citizen, I love other pple, I trust humanity and NO I DON'T FEAR PPLE WITH GUN BECAUSE REAL MEN HAVE NONE !

I M STRONGER THAN YOU, if you drop your weapon you are nothing... you turn to weak scared pussy. Me not !

C'mon, c'mon... fite me...fite me pussy  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Christo on December 13, 2015, 08:31:09 pm
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THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I TRY TO SAY !!!

GUNS ARE FOR NAZEIZ !!!


..Seriously?
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Tibe on December 13, 2015, 08:34:37 pm
My country is country of law. Pple can't make justice by themself. My familly can die more surely from car accident or stone fall from a roof... I keep driving and I still walk intostreets with them.

The danger of an armed man who want to kill or rape them IS ANECDOTIC ! How many chances that it happens (sorry frenchglish) ? Near to zero !

You want me holding a gun when I walk with them in steets ? And shot every man with strange attitude because I think he's a murderer ?

You want me to keep a gun at home in case of attack ? (how many pple are attacked at home per year ? millions ? no...it is so rare !) and if my gun is at home... how can it help me in street ?

I trust police to make the law respected, I trust judges to make justice, I m a citizen, I love other pple, I trust humanity and NO I DON'T FEAR PPLE WITH GUN BECAUSE REAL MEN HAVE NONE !

I M STRONGER THAN YOU, if you drop your weapon you are nothing... you turn to weak scared pussy. Me not !

C'mon, c'mon... fite me...fite me pussy  :rolleyes:

This sounds like it could be a Nickleback song.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Xant on December 13, 2015, 08:39:56 pm
My country is country of law. Pple can't make justice by themself. My familly can die more surely from car accident or stone fall from a roof... I keep driving and I still walk intostreets with them.

The danger of an armed man who want to kill or rape them IS ANECDOTIC ! How many chances that it happens (sorry frenchglish) ? Near to zero !

You want me holding a gun when I walk with them in steets ? And shot every man with strange attitude because I think he's a murderer ?

You want me to keep a gun at home in case of attack ? (how many pple are attacked at home per year ? millions ? no...it is so rare !) and if my gun is at home... how can it help me in street ?

I trust police to make the law respected, I trust judges to make justice, I m a citizen, I love other pple, I trust humanity and NO I DON'T FEAR PPLE WITH GUN BECAUSE REAL MEN HAVE NONE !

I M STRONGER THAN YOU, if you drop your weapon you are nothing... you turn to weak scared pussy. Me not !

C'mon, c'mon... fite me...fite me pussy  :rolleyes:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/10673482/Paris-police-wiped-16000-crimes-off-books.html
http://www.connexionfrance.com/burglaries-record-rise-home-security-news-article.html


Muslim immigration, gg:
Quote
In 1971, the rape rate stood at 2.0 per 100,000 people.[2] In 1995, it was 12.5.[3] In 2009, it stood at 16.2.[4]

According to a 2012 report, about 75,000 rapes take place each year.[5] In 2012, there were 1,293 reported rapes in a population of 66 million,[6] and 1,188 rapes in 2013 in a population of 66 million.[7]

Quote
According to a 2014 report, about 5,000 to 7,000 of the rapes are gang rapes.[8] In the culture of the banlieues, gang-rapes are referred to as tournantes, or "pass-arounds").[9][10] One of the first people to bring public attention to the culture of gang rape was Samira Bellil, who published a book called Dans l'enfer des tournantes ("In Gang Rape Hell").[9][10]

In October 2012, two girls in Fontenay-sous-Bois on the outskirts of Paris reported experiencing daily gang rapes in the high-rise tower blocks, sometimes by scores of boys. One witness described 50 boys "queuing" to rape her.[11]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samira_Bellil
Quote
The book discusses the violence she and other young women endured in the predominantly Muslim immigrant outskirts of Paris, where she was repeatedly gang-raped as a teenager by gangs led by people she knew

Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Clockworkkiller on December 13, 2015, 08:44:01 pm
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THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I TRY TO SAY !!!

GUNS ARE FOR NAZEIZ !!!

pepe thats a progun picture
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: pepejul on December 13, 2015, 08:47:45 pm
The man who hold gun IS the danger on this picture. The proguns who use this picture to defend their ideas are just stupid !

Look.. he has the gun, he feels stronk, he feels superior, he's a chocolate chip cookie...

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Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Christo on December 13, 2015, 08:54:36 pm
The man who hold gun IS the danger on this picture. The proguns who use this picture to defend their ideas are just stupid !

Look.. he has the gun, he feels stronk, he feels superior, he's a chocolate chip cookie...

(click to show/hide)

hey pepe, i got you some nazis abusing guns!

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Look.. they have the gun, they feel stronk, they feel superior, they ar chocolate chip cookies.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Xant on December 13, 2015, 09:07:43 pm
The man who hold gun IS the danger on this picture. The proguns who use this picture to defend their ideas are just stupid !

Look.. he has the gun, he feels stronk, he feels superior, he's a chocolate chip cookie...

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Yes, in France lots of civilians died because guns are illegal there, so only the terrorists had guns.

Guns are the answer indeed, as Texans showed the world: http://edition.cnn.com/2015/05/04/us/garland-mohammed-drawing-contest-shooting/

Only the terrorists died. God bless guns.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Paul on December 13, 2015, 10:47:45 pm
Kinda sad to share an opinion with someone that is limited to the dialog options of a low int Fallout 1&2 char, but yes, I like living in a society that restricts gun ownership. The most people I know that would like to own a gun are idiots. The most guys that outed themselves as gun owners in this forum are idiots. You'd have to establish a culture that makes normal people see it as their duty to own and carry a gun as well as regulary train(best in coordination with the police) with it to reduce terrorists threats on a bigger scale. Until then multiple party shootout would be a nightmare for the law enforcement. I'd rather have more and more heavily armed police presence in the streets than a clockworkkiller with an ar15 on his back and a dog mask on his head who, although he forgot to take his medication today, is still is out there patrolling for the sake of the neighborhood.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: pepejul on December 13, 2015, 10:56:10 pm
PPle on barricade were REALLY in danger, it was civile war... only fearfull dumbs think we are in war in our streets nowdays.

You didn't answer my questions about : when have guns ? At home or in streets ?
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Xant on December 13, 2015, 11:05:54 pm
PPle on barricade were REALLY in danger, it was civile war... only fearfull dumbs think we are in war in our streets nowdays.

You didn't answer my questions about : when have guns ? At home or in streets ?
Could you repeat your questions in English?
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: pepejul on December 14, 2015, 12:20:33 am
Quote from: pepe

- You want me holding a gun when I walk with my family in streets ? And shot every man with strange attitude because I think he's a murderer ?
or
- You want me to keep a gun only at home in case of attack ? (how many pple are attacked at home per year ? millions ? no...it is so rare !) and if my gun is at home... how can it help me in street ?

 And if it is locked in safety place, how can I use it fast in case of attack ?

 And if it is in easy access place, how can I protect my children from shoting themselves ?

Please enlight me....
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: [ptx] on December 14, 2015, 12:28:03 am
No, Pepe, not a single soul in the world wants YOU ever holding a gun.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Xant on December 14, 2015, 12:36:50 am
Please enlight me....

You can 1) keep it on your person, 2) keep it disassembled and easily reachable for you, 3) keep it in a safe place (good chance someone invading your house will make noise), 4) teach your children not to play with your guns.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: AntiBlitz on December 14, 2015, 01:18:04 am
The most guys that outed themselves as gun owners in this forum are idiots.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Sandersson Jankins on December 14, 2015, 01:40:09 am
Kinda sad to share an opinion with someone that is limited to the dialog options of a low int Fallout 1&2 char, but yes, I like living in a society that restricts gun ownership. The most people I know that would like to own a gun are idiots. The most guys that outed themselves as gun owners in this forum are idiots. You'd have to establish a culture that makes normal people see it as their duty to own and carry a gun as well as regulary train(best in coordination with the police) with it to reduce terrorists threats on a bigger scale. Until then multiple party shootout would be a nightmare for the law enforcement. I'd rather have more and more heavily armed police presence in the streets than a clockworkkiller with an ar15 on his back and a dog mask on his head who, although he forgot to take his medication today, is still is out there patrolling for the sake of the neighborhood.

Hey, man. You're a reasonable motherfucker. I ain't got a single issue with you enjoying living in a significantly less-armed society; just as you probably don't have a problem with me living in a place where firearms are pretty much fucking ubiquitous.

I would argue that my home has a culture in which the average person does feel that an individual, especially one with dependents or other loved ones, have a responsibility to be well-trained and reasonably-armed. The city of Kennesaw that I go to university in passed the first law "mandating" firearm ownership for all heads of household/property owners. Of course, nobody's ever been prosecuted for NOT having a firearm...clearly, it is a display of ideology rather than a pragmatic law.

The intent behind citizenry around here being well-armed isn't specifically to curb spree/mass shootings, terrorism, or even crime. It isn't a practical sort of practice like that; but more of an ideal that a well-armed and like-minded society is one that we'd collectively rather live in.

I absolutely agree with you in that I don't at all envy law enforcement having to deal with a multi-shooter situation. Most people claiming desire to act the part of the hero in a real situation like this don't have the training necessary to mitigate panic. I've got no illusions about myself in this. Even if concealed carrying a firearm, my first priority is solidly to GET THE FUCK OUT. Only intend to fire a single shot or more if my ass is cornered and about to become a statistic.

Even so, I consider consistent firearm carry to be much like carrying a knife, albeit far less commonly used. I've got a pocketknife on me in case I have to cut shit open. I've got a firearm in case I have to shoot shit.

I recognize that most people on EU don't know shit about me; but I reckon most on NA would identify me as a rather kind and gentle fellow.

(click to show/hide)

I don't think I fit in so well to the "trigger-happy gun-owner" characterization that gets thrown around. I sincerely don't wish to hurt anyone. But unfortunately, some folks aren't the same as me. If a person initiates a violent action against me (within reason, not talking about a bit of a drunken scuffle...plus carrying a firearm while intending to get drunk is SHIT SHIT SHIT DONT DO THAT), they have forfeited any right to personal safety. Society should not tolerate those that, either out of malice or perceived necessity, commit violent acts against others.

So, uh. Yeah. Wall of text while I had a few mins downtime at work. Why the fuck did I even post rofl
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: chesterotab on December 14, 2015, 02:34:51 am
i got a glock in my rari
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Asheram on December 14, 2015, 03:38:43 am
This is what Pepe fears  :P
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Clockworkkiller on December 14, 2015, 03:56:31 am
I'd rather have more and more heavily armed police presence in the streets than a clockworkkiller with an ar15 on his back and a dog mask on his head who, although he forgot to take his medication today, is still is out there patrolling for the sake of the neighborhood.

I'm the hero this world deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So you'll hate me. Because I can take it. Because i'm not your hero. I'm a silent guardian, a watchful protector. A dark knight.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Asheram on December 14, 2015, 04:07:54 am
 :lol:
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: mcdeath on December 14, 2015, 06:32:09 am
I think we should go back to the good old days when if you started a bank account you got a free gun. #Murica #Land of the home and the free of the brave

Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Turkhammer on December 14, 2015, 06:36:15 am
PPle on barricade were REALLY in danger, it was civile war... only fearfull dumbs think we are in war in our streets nowdays.

You didn't answer my questions about : when have guns ? At home or in streets ?

I did answer your question.  You didn't answer mine.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Paul on December 14, 2015, 08:20:03 am
...

Ye, my opinion is based on my experience with the people and circumstances in Central Europe. It might be different in the US - at least for some regions. It depends on the general mindset of the population and the competence of the government forces. In South Africa I'd probably want to own a gun as well.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Butan on December 14, 2015, 04:48:21 pm
(click to show/hide)


Couldnt agree more. This is why I love USA.

Its mostly a cultural problem. In France, most of my acquaintances would think I'm slightly mad, at least weird, to even own a house-stored blade longer than 8 inches. So guns?... Must be a complete nutjob, maybe a nazi.
To me, owning guns is not so much about curbing crime, but about being prepared, thus educated to the responsability of having them. You dont even need to carry, simply the fact of knowing how to operate them, and what it can do, teach you how life is precious, and to be a responsible adult. An armed society is a polite one.

Then a real nutjob comes along and shoot people up, discrediting those that would have wished they were there, and ended those sack of shit themselves before they had time to pull the trigger on innocent people...
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Molly on December 14, 2015, 05:20:41 pm
[...]
An armed society is a polite one.
[...]
I claim humongous bullshit on this specific statement :lol:
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Xant on December 14, 2015, 05:39:42 pm
And one thing pepe and those like him don't understand is that statistics aren't a shield. "This is improbable!" won't stop anyone from having their way with you. It's like not wearing a motorcycle helmet because statistically you're more likely to not need it than you are to need it. And humans, unlike accidents, can seek you out and force violence on you. You can do a lot to minimize both the risks of violence and accidents, but at the end of the day, humans can't be controlled and accounted for, and you could be attacked for any number of reasons, ranging from random coincidence to someone deciding to do you harm.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Algarn on December 14, 2015, 05:53:25 pm
But selling guns like you'd sell anything else is retarded. And I love when someone says " BUT THEY'RE SEMI AUTO VARIANTS BRUH !1!!111!". Cos a 5.56x45 cartrigess is less lethal when fired in semi automatic mode, right ? If anything, civilian guns should be limited to low caliber pistols, anyone who wants one has to be traced and pass tests/provide medical evidence to prove they aren't mentally fucked up, and they should have to pass regular tests about their aim. I just facepalm quite hard when people say that gun control in America is fine atm, since civilians can even buy .50 rifles in some states, like why the hell not ? Being more armed than the police sounds good when it comes to defending MURICA, right ? No one would use these guns to kill people, right ?

Guns are fascinating, but they should be owned ONLY by the military when it comes to any caliber higher than 9mm (or 12G for hunting), no matter what.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Xant on December 14, 2015, 06:23:48 pm
You need to be very confident that you (and the people you want to protect) will come out ontop in any and all violent altercations that take place. I know that *you* are very confident that this is the case. Not knowing you IRL I cant judge if your faith is well placed or not.

But for the rest of us mortals who cannot guarantee we'll shoot first and best 100% of the time, we are safer if it's harder for the people who mean us deliberate harm (or are likely to fuck up) to get their hands on a lethal weapon (yes I know, a salad fork can be a lethal weapon too, but one that requires at least some effort on the part of the assailant).
That is why most people need guns to be able to defend themselves... even if the attacker doesn't have one. They're the equalizer (them, and Denzel Washington). An average family man isn't going to be able to fight off a couple of drugged up home invaders whether they're armed with guns, knives, or nothing. If that family man has access to a gun himself, and is on the defensive, his odds increase substantially -- especially if the opposition doesn't have firearms. A small girl/woman has little chance against most rapists; add a gun into the equation (and some training), and it's a different situation. And so on. Without guns, the violent thugs hold all the cards. It's the world of the strong and the ruthless. And criminals tend to be ruthless, if nothing else.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Clockworkkiller on December 14, 2015, 06:26:41 pm
But selling guns like you'd sell anything else is retarded. And I love when someone says " BUT THEY'RE SEMI AUTO VARIANTS BRUH !1!!111!". Cos a 5.56x45 cartrigess is less lethal when fired in semi automatic mode, right ? If anything, civilian guns should be limited to low caliber pistols, anyone who wants one has to be traced and pass tests/provide medical evidence to prove they aren't mentally fucked up, and they should have to pass regular tests about their aim. I just facepalm quite hard when people say that gun control in America is fine atm, since civilians can even buy .50 rifles in some states, like why the hell not ? Being more armed than the police sounds good when it comes to defending MURICA, right ? No one would use these guns to kill people, right ?

Guns are fascinating, but they should be owned ONLY by the military when it comes to any caliber higher than 9mm (or 12G for hunting), no matter what.

Yea, because good lord all the crimes committed with 50 cals and assault rifles, shit is rampant on the streets
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Xant on December 14, 2015, 06:39:31 pm
That whole argument is as retarded as the argument about full vs semi auto. What does it matter? Someone killed by a .50cal bullet is just as dead as someone killed by a 9mm bullet.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Lt_Anders on December 14, 2015, 06:44:28 pm
Older stats, but(US only)...
*An estimated 3.7 million burglaries occurred each year on
average from 2003 to 2007.

*A household member was present in roughly 1 million burglaries
and became victims of violent crimes in 266,560 burglaries.

*Simple assault (15%) was the most common form of violence when
a resident was home and violence occurred. Robbery (7%) and
rape (3%) were less likely to occur when a household member was
present and violence occurred.

*Offenders were known to their victims in 65% of violent
burglaries; offenders were strangers in 28%.

*Overall, 61% of offenders were unarmed when violence occurred
during a burglary while a resident was present. About 12% of
all households violently burglarized while someone was home
faced an offender armed with a firearm.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Xant on December 14, 2015, 06:49:59 pm
Quote
There is a very important lesson about being tough to be taken from shooting sprees. And that is a shooting spree - where someone comes in and shoots many people - ONLY happens when one side has the guns. Everyone remembers the Columbine High School tragedy. What few people remember is a year after I graduated from my high school, four guys came on campus drew guns and opened fire. The campus police, members of the faculty and even some students drew their guns and returned fire. The four original shooters turned and ran. Total body count....zero.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Algarn on December 14, 2015, 07:03:09 pm
Yea, because good lord all the crimes committed with 50 cals and assault rifles, shit is rampant on the streets

If I was a fucked up terrorist, I'd use an assault rifle. Why do American mass killers don't use assault rifles like AK-47s, I mean, this is common for any kind of drug dealer/terrorist to have an AK47. It's retarded to bring an SMG or a pistol when you have access to weapons ranging from assault rifles to Miniguns as long as you can have enough money to buy them.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Xant on December 14, 2015, 07:06:17 pm
If I was a fucked up terrorist, I'd use an assault rifle. Why do American mass killers don't use assault rifles like AK-47s, I mean, this is common for any kind of drug dealer/terrorist to have an AK47. It's retarded to bring an SMG or a pistol when you have access to weapons ranging from SMGs to Miniguns.
Because contrary to the common misconception, firearms don't have power levels á la roleplaying games. If you're not engaging targets to hundreds of meters, why do you need an assault rifle? A Texas traffic cop took out two AK-47 and bodyarmor equipped terrorists who attacked a cartoon seminar. With "nothing but" a pistol.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Algarn on December 14, 2015, 07:09:12 pm
Because contrary to the common misconception, firearms don't have power levels á la roleplaying games. If you're not engaging targets to hundreds of meters, why do you need an assault rifle? A Texas traffic cop took out two AK-47 and bodyarmor equipped terrorists who attacked a cartoon seminar. With "nothing but" a pistol.

A 9mm bullet has less stopping power than a 7.62mm obviously. You may survive while being shot directly with one 9mm bullet, but the odds for survival go down with anything higher. That's why I'm saying that, it's REALLY obvious that if someone goes full retard with a pistol, and if another goes full retard with a shotgun or an AK47/M4, it may end up worse for the second case.

Plus you may forget that a 9mm bullet doesn't really penetrate heavily armored SWAT/policemen. An armor-piercing 7.62 may actually penetrate their heavy armors. If civilians have access to high caliber weapons, it's obvious they're going to end up in wrong hands, no matter what. And these wrong hands will have better weapons than the cops, stuck with their little semi auto, low caliber pistols.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: mcdeath on December 14, 2015, 07:42:07 pm
A 9mm bullet has less stopping power than a 7.62mm obviously. You may survive while being shot directly with one 9mm bullet, but the odds for survival go down with anything higher. That's why I'm saying that, it's REALLY obvious that if someone goes full retard with a pistol, and if another goes full retard with a shotgun or an AK47/M4, it may end up worse for the second case.

Plus you may forget that a 9mm bullet doesn't really penetrate heavily armored SWAT/policemen. An armor-piercing 7.62 may actually penetrate their heavy armors. If civilians have access to high caliber weapons, it's obvious they're going to end up in wrong hands, no matter what. And these wrong hands will have better weapons than the cops, stuck with their little semi auto, low caliber pistols.

At the same time even if civilians don't have access to high caliber weapons who is going to stop a terrorist from getting them?
You say that civilians having access will lead to the high caliber weapons ending up in wrong hands I just don't understand how taking those away from civilians will stop the wrong people from getting to them.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Sir_Hans on December 14, 2015, 07:47:07 pm
And these wrong hands will have better weapons than the cops, stuck with their little semi auto, low caliber pistols.

In california squad cars are equipped with assault rifles. Usually they have shotgun in the trunk as well.
In hawaii I don't think they do, but there aren't very many gun related murders here compared to california... Not very many places to run and hide when u on an island.
(click to show/hide)

The argument that taking away legal capacity for civilians to own a certain type of firearm prevents criminals from obtaining said firearm is fairly insubstantial imo.
Mexico it's basically illegal for any civilian to own a firearm, Yet look at what their cartel is armed with...
(click to show/hide)

Seeing how easily mexico smuggles drugs across the border, one can assume that if we made assault rifles illegal to own in the U.S. and even assuming that somehow we managed to remove ALL assault rifles out of civilians hands... Mexican cartels would just smuggle assault rifles back over the border a long with drugs if the price was high enough.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: AntiBlitz on December 14, 2015, 07:59:05 pm
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: mcdeath on December 14, 2015, 08:02:33 pm
http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/23/us/drug-super-tunnel-tijuana-san-diego/
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Kafein on December 14, 2015, 08:22:14 pm
Seeing how easily mexico smuggles drugs across the border, one can assume that if we made assault rifles illegal to own in the U.S. and even assuming that somehow we managed to remove ALL assault rifles out of civilians hands... Mexican cartels would just smuggle assault rifles back over the border a long with drugs if the price was high enough.

I don't think you understand how the Mexico-USA border trafficking works.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Lt_Anders on December 14, 2015, 08:42:25 pm
A 9mm bullet has less stopping power than a 7.62mm obviously. You may survive while being shot directly with one 9mm bullet, but the odds for survival go down with anything higher. That's why I'm saying that, it's REALLY obvious that if someone goes full retard with a pistol, and if another goes full retard with a shotgun or an AK47/M4, it may end up worse for the second case.

Plus you may forget that a 9mm bullet doesn't really penetrate heavily armored SWAT/policemen. An armor-piercing 7.62 may actually penetrate their heavy armors. If civilians have access to high caliber weapons, it's obvious they're going to end up in wrong hands, no matter what. And these wrong hands will have better weapons than the cops, stuck with their little semi auto, low caliber pistols.

FYI, the 7.62 has better power in part due to the fact that it has far more powder to propel it. A single .22 to the head can kill any human, as it has enough power and force to go right through the skull.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Algarn on December 14, 2015, 09:45:25 pm
FYI, the 7.62 has better power in part due to the fact that it has far more powder to propel it. A single .22 to the head can kill any human, as it has enough power and force to go right through the skull.

Yes, but it actually requires you to aim, and I don't think there are many automatic .22 guns that let you spray in the crowd out there (I may be wrong, but whatever). And then, try to pierce a kevlar vest with a .22, and try again with a 5.56, guess which one is gonna actually do the job. I'd not be so mad about the fact firearms are sold to civilians if the calibers remained small and actually required careful aiming to kill someone.

In california squad cars are equipped with assault rifles. Usually they have shotgun in the trunk as well.
In hawaii I don't think they do, but there aren't very many gun related murders here compared to california... Not very many places to run and hide when u on an island.
(click to show/hide)

The argument that taking away legal capacity for civilians to own a certain type of firearm prevents criminals from obtaining said firearm is fairly insubstantial imo.
Mexico it's basically illegal for any civilian to own a firearm, Yet look at what their cartel is armed with...
(click to show/hide)

Seeing how easily mexico smuggles drugs across the border, one can assume that if we made assault rifles illegal to own in the U.S. and even assuming that somehow we managed to remove ALL assault rifles out of civilians hands... Mexican cartels would just smuggle assault rifles back over the border a long with drugs if the price was high enough.

Because selling them directly to citizens doesn't make things easier for bandits and drug dealers to get a lot of them legally, right ?
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Xant on December 14, 2015, 09:54:39 pm
Even if it removes certain physical elements from the encounter you're also increasing the likelihood that the assailant is armed. That significantly improves the chance that average joe facing the assailant is going to die even if there's a better-than-average chance that he'll shoot first. It turns a shitty situation into a genuine life-or-death situation.
But you don't know what kind of a situation it will be if AJ has no gun.

Some AJ unarmed scenarios:
1) Just end up losing some valuables and insurance covers for them... ok, not too bad, certainly better than dying in attempt to defend the sanctity of your home.
2) Wife/daughter gets raped, everyone lives. Depends on your POV if this is a better outcome than "X chance of dying while shooting the would-be rapist." But you can adjust the probability in your favor with things like training and layered home security until it becomes acceptable.
3) Robber kills everyone in the house.
4) Robber kills someone in the house.
5) Some combination of rape/murder/torture/humiliation/kidnapping...

Now, 1) might be statistically more likely to happen than the rest put together, but I'd rather not leave the lives of my family and myself in the hands of a random person who's desperate enough to go invading homes -- or worse, not desperate, but invading for the thrill of raping/murdering.

Quote
And maybe i prefer the police being more armed than most threats to society. I dont want family-man defending his home, the local village rapist (favourite crpg meme 2015), the police, and the pasty nerd who got diddled by his uncle to all have equal firepower and pose an equal threat. Or the possibility of a miniature 'arms-race' as not all firearms are born equal.
Sure. My preferred option would be that you have be an upstanding member of society (former police, military, politician, Ph.D... i.e., something that takes more dedication than 99.99% of random shooters have), have no criminal record or mental illnesses, and have to go through an annual firearms training course (~20 hours) to keep your carry permit active. I'm also OK with US style "no limitations" carry, but I slightly prefer Europe's "no one can carry" policy.

Quote
1. You and your assailant both have guns
2. You have a gun and he doesnt
3. You dont have a gun, but he does.
4. Neither of you have a gun

Quote
Armed with a gun (G), armed with a knife (K), unarmed (U).

G=G>K>U
U=U<K<G

Game theory wise, having a gun is always superior to not having a gun.

Quote
In Scenario 1, even if you give yourself a better-than-odds chance of winning that encounter it still poses a high risk of death to you and anyone with you at that time if you're a normal human being.
Not necessarily a high risk of death. There is some risk, yes, but like I said before you can significantly skew the odds in your favor with training, forethought and certain security measures. If you know an assailant is coming, and you know from where, you're almost certainly going to come out on top.

Quote
Scenario 2, sweet, he can back the fuck away, stay where he is till the police show up, or die as a result of 'self defense' (c'mon, nobody will ever prove it wasnt).
That is, if he makes his motives clear to you before he's close enough to grab your arm. If not you are basically fucked if you lose the grappling match cos he'll know you were going to pull that gun on him and there goes any chance for mercy.
OK, so you're not just talking about home invasions? I thought you were since you used "Average Joe" in your example before, like I did when talking about home invasions. That's almost better, though -- because you have the option to not draw. That's why CONCEALED carry is smart and open carry is dumb. And again, if you have no gun and you can't beat the dude in hand-to-hand, then you leave your fate in his hands (and the fate of whoever's with you.)

Quote
Scenario 3, depends what they want since you're unarmed. What's more important to you, your wallet or your life? Genuine question, each can make up their own mind and take their chance, pride or life? Of course he may want to rape you and that'll change the way you balance that decision, or if the gods of chance hate you they may just be a serial killer. This one depends most on what they want and what you as the unarmed party choose to do. Whilst being the most at their mercy of all 4 scenarios, your actions have the most say in whether you die or not.
Most likely you'll just lose your valuables, yes, but again, leaving your fate in the hands of an unstable person whose motivations you have no idea about. And being armed doesn't mean you can't give up your valuables... only thing that changes is that you get the option to try to draw if it looks like you're going to eat a bullet after you hand over your wallet.

Quote
Scenario 4, do they have a knife? Will they genuinely try and kill you? Can they kill you? If you dont fancy your chances physically then it's the same as Scenario 3, except it'll be much more effort on their part to kill you.
They don't even have to want to kill you. An untrained person getting punched in the head and falling on asphalt is a dangerous combination.

Yes, but it actually requires you to aim, and I don't think there are many automatic .22 guns that let you spray in the crowd out there (I may be wrong, but whatever). And then, try to pierce a kevlar vest with a .22, and try again with a 5.56, guess which one is gonna actually do the job. I'd not be so mad about the fact firearms are sold to civilians if the calibers remained small and actually required careful aiming to kill someone.

Because selling them directly to citizens doesn't make things easier for bandits and drug dealers to get a lot of them legally, right ?
The whole "kevlar piercing" discussion is 100% pointless. Who cares if they can pierce body armor or not? Their victims don't wear body armor and if 100 cops can't handle some loon shooter they've got bigger problems than armor-piercing rounds.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Turkhammer on December 14, 2015, 10:11:12 pm
Yes, but it actually requires you to aim, and I don't think there are many automatic .22 guns that let you spray in the crowd out there (I may be wrong, but whatever). And then, try to pierce a kevlar vest with a .22, and try again with a 5.56, guess which one is gonna actually do the job. I'd not be so mad about the fact firearms are sold to civilians if the calibers remained small and actually required careful aiming to kill someone.
You still have to aim a semi automatic rifle like an AR 15 or even a fully automatic rifle like an AK.  Full auto is difficult to control.  The chief advantage of those weapons over hand guns is range, penetrating power and capacity.

I claim humongous bullshit on this specific statement :lol:

I think you're correct.  The territorial west was not a very polite society pre-statehood and proper law enforcement despite a lot of armed people.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Algarn on December 14, 2015, 10:12:16 pm
The whole "kevlar piercing" discussion is 100% pointless. Who cares if they can pierce body armor or not? Their victims don't wear body armor and if 100 cops can't handle some loon shooter they've got bigger problems than armor-piercing rounds.

Cos... It's both dangerous for civilians AND cops/soldiers ? I'd rather give away my rights to own a (big) gun and to have more cops with better weapons, which make them able to kill terrorists/gangsters with less civilians casualties rather selling them openly like in USA and have daily disasters.

As you said, U<G, but if there are some guys around with bigger guns, armor, and superior training, it's more efficient than a lot of fat guys with pistols/carabines or whatever.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Xant on December 14, 2015, 10:18:26 pm
Cos... It's both dangerous for civilians AND cops/soldiers ? I'd rather give away my rights to own a (big) gun and to have more cops with better weapons, which make them able to kill terrorists/gangsters with less civilians casualties rather selling them openly like in USA and have daily disasters.

As you said, U<G, but if there are some guys around with bigger guns, armor, and superior training, it's more efficient than a lot of fat guys with pistols/carabines or whatever.
Guns don't have power levels. Training>caliber/bullet/fire rate. There are no "better weapons." Real life isn't a RPG where you switch to a masterworked german greatsword at level 18 after you reach 15 str.

Bigger does not mean better.

And like in the Texas incident:
Quote
A traffic officer working after-hours as security for the event and armed only with a service pistol killed both men, who were wearing body armor and carrying assault rifles, Garland Police Department spokesman Joe Harn told reporters Monday.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Turkhammer on December 14, 2015, 10:22:18 pm
Cos... It's both dangerous for civilians AND cops/soldiers ? I'd rather give away my rights to own a (big) gun and to have more cops with better weapons, which make them able to kill terrorists/gangsters with less civilians casualties rather selling them openly like in USA and have daily disasters.

As you said, U<G, but if there are some guys around with bigger guns, armor, and superior training, it's more efficient than a lot of fat guys with pistols/carabines or whatever.

When you need a cop in seconds they are just minutes away.  Most often they arrive in time to draw chalk lines around the bodies and take pictures.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: mcdeath on December 14, 2015, 10:38:55 pm
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Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Lt_Anders on December 14, 2015, 11:28:47 pm
But you don't know what kind of a situation it will be if AJ has no gun.

Some AJ unarmed scenarios:
1) Just end up losing some valuables and insurance covers for them... ok, not too bad, certainly better than dying in attempt to defend the sanctity of your home.
2) Wife/daughter gets raped, everyone lives. Depends on your POV if this is a better outcome than "X chance of dying while shooting the would-be rapist." But you can adjust the probability in your favor with things like training and layered home security until it becomes acceptable.
3) Robber kills everyone in the house.
4) Robber kills someone in the house.
5) Some combination of rape/murder/torture/humiliation/kidnapping...

Now, 1) might be statistically more likely to happen than the rest put together, but I'd rather not leave the lives of my family and myself in the hands of a random person who's desperate enough to go invading homes -- or worse, not desperate, but invading for the thrill of raping/murdering.
Sure. My preferred option would be that you have be an upstanding member of society (former police, military, politician, Ph.D... i.e., something that takes more dedication than 99.99% of random shooters have), have no criminal record or mental illnesses, and have to go through an annual firearms training course (~20 hours) to keep your carry permit active. I'm also OK with US style "no limitations" carry, but I slightly prefer Europe's "no one can carry" policy.

Game theory wise, having a gun is always superior to not having a gun.
Not necessarily a high risk of death. There is some risk, yes, but like I said before you can significantly skew the odds in your favor with training, forethought and certain security measures. If you know an assailant is coming, and you know from where, you're almost certainly going to come out on top.
OK, so you're not just talking about home invasions? I thought you were since you used "Average Joe" in your example before, like I did when talking about home invasions. That's almost better, though -- because you have the option to not draw. That's why CONCEALED carry is smart and open carry is dumb. And again, if you have no gun and you can't beat the dude in hand-to-hand, then you leave your fate in his hands (and the fate of whoever's with you.)
Most likely you'll just lose your valuables, yes, but again, leaving your fate in the hands of an unstable person whose motivations you have no idea about. And being armed doesn't mean you can't give up your valuables... only thing that changes is that you get the option to try to draw if it looks like you're going to eat a bullet after you hand over your wallet.
They don't even have to want to kill you. An untrained person getting punched in the head and falling on asphalt is a dangerous combination.
The whole "kevlar piercing" discussion is 100% pointless. Who cares if they can pierce body armor or not? Their victims don't wear body armor and if 100 cops can't handle some loon shooter they've got bigger problems than armor-piercing rounds.

To further illustrate your points xant.
3.7 Million burglaries.(that's 10% of the US total population, which means that it's much more than that as very few people live 1 person per home)

1/3 of those, someone was home when their house was invaded of these, 25% had a violent crime take place. 62% of homeowners were unarmed and only 12% of perpetrators were armed with a gun.

Older stats, but(US only)...
*An estimated 3.7 million burglaries occurred each year on
average from 2003 to 2007.

*A household member was present in roughly 1 million burglaries
and became victims of violent crimes in 266,560 burglaries.

*Simple assault (15%) was the most common form of violence when
a resident was home and violence occurred. Robbery (7%) and
rape (3%) were less likely to occur when a household member was
present and violence occurred.

*Offenders were known to their victims in 65% of violent
burglaries; offenders were strangers in 28%.

*Overall, 61% of offenders were unarmed when violence occurred
during a burglary while a resident was present. About 12% of
all households violently burglarized while someone was home
faced an offender armed with a firearm.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Algarn on December 15, 2015, 12:09:24 am
A traffic officer working after-hours as security for the event and armed only with a service pistol killed both men, who were wearing body armor and carrying assault rifles, Garland Police Department spokesman Joe Harn told reporters Monday.

Firing a gun isn't rocket science, Xant. Anyone who spends a few hours with a weapon is able to operate it effectively enough to shoot in a crowd, no matter which gun we're talking about. And that case you mentionned, is... well, one single case. A case of a really lucky guy that had the odds against him. How many cases out there with police officers being killed against opponents (that aren't blind) with better weapons ? Police officers kill a lot of armed people (not speaking about all these recent shootings on unarmed black teenagers, obv), but they still get killed, and firearms have a role in these deaths.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_police_officers_killed_in_the_line_of_duty



Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Xant on December 15, 2015, 12:30:44 am
You show how little you know. Combat shooting is extremely hard. Most people can't hit the side of a barn with a shotgun, from inside the barn, because of the mix of fear and adrenaline.

There are no "better weapons." A pistol is many times preferable to a rifle in a city. Especially in LE duties where you have to clear rooms.

Your rhetoric is extremely confused in any case; if anyone was able to operate any gun effectively "in a crowd," then guns would matter even less - just 360 noscope everyone in the head with an air gun. And "firearms have a role in these deaths", no shit, so what? How many of them are because "he had a level 76 assault rifle and I only had a level 12 pistol"?
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Algarn on December 15, 2015, 01:13:42 am
You show how little you know. Combat shooting is extremely hard. Most people can't hit the side of a barn with a shotgun, from inside the barn, because of the mix of fear and adrenaline.

There are no "better weapons." A pistol is many times preferable to a rifle in a city. Especially in LE duties where you have to clear rooms.

Your rhetoric is extremely confused in any case; if anyone was able to operate any gun effectively "in a crowd," then guns would matter even less - just 360 noscope everyone in the head with an air gun. And "firearms have a role in these deaths", no shit, so what? How many of them are because "he had a level 76 assault rifle and I only had a level 12 pistol"?

The stats don't show the exact circumstances of the death, so what ? I fail to see how can a compact (easy to carry/conceal), medium-high caliber weapon (->high stopping power), with automatic fire on, operated by a  trained,fearless and completely insane terrorist (doesn't suffer from the "I can't hit the side of a barn" syndrom you described), be less effective than the regular cop with a pistol when it comes at killing people. Oh and,

"Most people can't hit the side of a barn with a shotgun, from inside the barn, because of the mix of fear and adrenaline. "

Good to know we're allowing civilians to buy guns in US then ! Must be useful when a terrorist who doesn't fear to shoot or to be shot pops up right in front of you, knowing you won't kill him anyway no matter what. Damnit, PEPE must be true when he says that a large part of the gun users are just fearful guys, scared to pull the trigger.

Let's face it, auto-defense groups or whatever you want to call them are a joke. There has been a link posted some time ago that clearly showed that the amount of terrorists killed by civilians and the amount of terrorists killed by cops are kinda different, but whatever.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Xant on December 15, 2015, 01:32:32 am
The stats don't show the exact circumstances of the death, so what ? I fail to see how can a compact (easy to carry/conceal), medium-high caliber weapon (->high stopping power), with automatic fire on, operated by a  trained,fearless and completely insane terrorist (doesn't suffer from the "I can't hit the side of a barn" syndrom you described), be less effective than the regular cop with a pistol when it comes at killing people. Oh and,

"Most people can't hit the side of a barn with a shotgun, from inside the barn, because of the mix of fear and adrenaline. "

Good to know we're allowing civilians to buy guns in US then ! Must be useful when a terrorist who doesn't fear to shoot or to be shot pops up right in front of you, knowing you won't kill him anyway no matter what. Damnit, PEPE must be true when he says that a large part of the gun users are just fearful guys, scared to pull the trigger.

Let's face it, auto-defense groups or whatever you want to call them are a joke. There has been a link posted some time ago that clearly showed that the amount of terrorists killed by civilians and the amount of terrorists killed by cops are kinda different, but whatever.
Yes, exactly, the stats don't show the circumstances of their death, hence you're doing something called making shit up. Why are you linking to statistics that have nothing to do with what you were saying? "Look, I told you ice cream is responsible for all these deaths! *links to how many people die in the US every year*"

I have no doubt you "fail to see that" since you've probably never even seen a firearm. Especially since you think "automatic fire on" is somehow a positive when it comes to killing people.

Quote
Good to know we're allowing civilians to buy guns in US then ! Must be useful when a terrorist who doesn't fear to shoot or to be shot pops up right in front of you, knowing you won't kill him anyway no matter what. Damnit, PEPE must be true when he says that a large part of the gun users are just fearful guys, scared to pull the trigger.
Because terrorists aren't people? Idiot.

Quote
Let's face it, auto-defense groups or whatever you want to call them are a joke.
What the fuck are auto-defense groups?

Quote
There has been a link posted some time ago that clearly showed that the amount of terrorists killed by civilians and the amount of terrorists killed by cops are kinda different, but whatever.
... And? I think EVERY mass shooting in the last dozen or so years has taken place in a Gun Free Zone.


Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Sir_Hans on December 15, 2015, 07:16:52 am
I don't think you understand how the Mexico-USA border trafficking works.

Works like this:
USA smuggles firearms into mexico because they sell for much higher than they do in the U.S. because of mexico's strict gun laws which drives up demand.

Cartels smuggle drugs into the U.S. because they are cheap/easy to grow/manufacture in Mexico because cartels own large swaths of land and most of the law enforcement on said land. Because demand is high in the U.S. since drug enforcement is much more strict in the U.S.
And Mexico smuggles immigrants into the U.S. as well.

Your point?


Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Paul on December 15, 2015, 08:33:21 am
Works like this:
USA smuggles firearms into mexico because they sell for much higher than they do in the U.S. because of mexico's strict gun laws which drives up demand.

Time for Mexico to start a "War on Guns", raiding and bombing US arms factories.

Quote from: Cant
Game theory wise, having a gun is always superior to not having a gun.
There are examples of fucked up nash-equilibria. This is one of it. Individually it might be reasonable to carry a gun to have an edge in most situations but on a grander scale(society-wise) the less weapons people run around with every day the better. This is in my opinion at least true in reasonably safe societies where the occational robber just wants your money and not just to murder you.* Central Europe is still relatively safe after all even with the terror threat. The threat that would come from arguments turning into shootouts instead of brawls or club entrance rejects pulling a gun is still bigger in my eyes.

*It might be different in Finnland because of the Mongol blood of the people there.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Rhekimos on December 15, 2015, 09:45:29 am
There are examples of fucked up nash-equilibria. This is one of it

Yup, basic prisoner's dilemma situation.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Algarn on December 15, 2015, 12:45:16 pm
Yes, exactly, the stats don't show the circumstances of their death, hence you're doing something called making shit up. Why are you linking to statistics that have nothing to do with what you were saying? "Look, I told you ice cream is responsible for all these deaths! *links to how many people die in the US every year*"

I guess I can't be arsed to look for hours for the exact causes of death. Sorry about that. And yet it does prove my point, since firearms aren't a danger only for civilians, but armored cops as well, since they are wearing ballistic vests : some of these weapons were probably bought legally, and were powerful enough to kill policemen in duty.

I have no doubt you "fail to see that" since you've probably never even seen a firearm. Especially since you think "automatic fire on" is somehow a positive when it comes to killing people.

I'm sure of some things, because it's theorically true. Prove me that careful trigger discipline with automatic fire on isn't deadlier than a gun locked in semi auto.


Because terrorists aren't people?

They are people who want to kill other people, and do not give a shit or two about dying. Proves my point that they won't fear to pull the trigger.

Idiot.

Ad hominem as hell.


What the fuck are auto-defense groups? Don't know how to call these associations of patriots proudly "defending" their country with guns, claiming they're the real "thing" when it comes to safety. Cops and the military will ALWAYS be superior to random fat rednecks with shotguns.

... And? I think EVERY mass shooting in the last dozen or so years has taken place in a Gun Free Zone.

My point, since the beginning, is that terrorists and murderers can PURCHASE military-grade weapons as long as they've got the money for it, it's like if France was handing directly AKs to Paris attackers.


Xant, pls.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Xant on December 15, 2015, 01:20:08 pm
Yup, basic prisoner's dilemma situation.
And the rational way to act in prisoner's dilemma is that both defect, meaning both carry a gun..
Xant, pls.
http://forum.melee.org/general-off-topic/ad-hominem-you-3-things-you'll-be-perplexed-and-amazed-by-on-a-forum/msg1174601/#msg1174601
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Rhekimos on December 15, 2015, 01:34:21 pm
And the rational way to act in prisoner's dilemma is that both defect, meaning both carry a gun..

Well, it's generally held up as an example of when applying classical rationality to the problem does not result in the good outcome.

And the game is completely different when it's not a one-off, which would mean that the people play the game once and absolutely never meet or interact again, making it somewhat different from our usual existence with other humans.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Xant on December 15, 2015, 01:41:21 pm
Well, it's generally held up as an example of when applying classical rationality to the problem does not result in the good outcome.

No, it's not "held up as an example" of that. It's simple logic. And on top of that, it even holds up when taking human nature into consideration. It only supports my argument, so it makes no sense for you to go "yup, basic prisoner's dilemma situation" if you understood PD.


Quote
And the game is completely different when it's not a one-off, which would mean that the people play the game once and absolutely never meet or interact again, making it somewhat different from our usual existence with other humans.
So let me get this straight: you introduce prisoner's dilemma into the conversation saying it's a "basic prisoner's dilemma situation", then backpedal as fast as you can to make it have nothing to do with the conversation at all and adding all kinds of additional rules that have nothing to do with the basic prisoner's dilemma? Ok.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Rhekimos on December 15, 2015, 01:57:00 pm
No, it's not "held up as an example" of that. It's simple logic. And on top of that, it even holds up when taking human nature into consideration. It only supports my argument, so it makes no sense for you to go "yup, basic prisoner's dilemma situation" if you understood PD.

So let me get this straight: you introduce prisoner's dilemma into the conversation saying it's a "basic prisoner's dilemma situation", then backpedal as fast as you can to make it have nothing to do with the conversation at all and adding all kinds of additional rules that have nothing to do with the basic prisoner's dilemma? Ok.

Basic as in how hard it is to recognize as a prisoner's dilemma type situation. It would be quite mad to claim that most people out there will never meet someone twice.
The problem in game theory is but a model, and models and reality never quite fully meet, but if we want to gain useful solutions that we can gainfully apply in real life, we should try to at least come close.

The real world is complex and messy, not simple, pretty and clean like a game.

But you're probably the first one I've met to celebrate the classical self-interest outcome of prisoner's dilemma. That's something.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Xant on December 15, 2015, 02:21:08 pm
Basic as in how hard it is to recognize as a prisoner's dilemma type situation. It would be quite mad to claim that most people out there will never meet someone twice.
The problem in game theory is but a model, and models and reality never quite fully meet, but if we want to gain useful solutions that we can gainfully apply in real life, we should try to at least come close.

The real world is complex and messy, not simple, pretty and clean like a game.

But you're probably the first one I've met to celebrate the classical self-interest outcome of prisoner's dilemma. That's something.
How do you think the reciprocity, reputation, and "meeting someone later" aspects of non-basic PDs translate into gun ownership? The basic form of PD is the most accurate analogy. When you add "gang affiliations" and "meeting someone again" (lol) it makes zero sense when you're talking about gun ownership...
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Paul on December 15, 2015, 02:41:04 pm
If you think about it, it's the state's responsibility to move the nash equilibrium away being armed. Harsh penalties for owning, carrying or even using a gun is the way to go. Combined with effective controls it will make it a high risk to bring a gun into the game that at some point outweights the advantages it gives in certain situations.

Non-murder crimes involving firearms should be penaltized much harsher than without. This will hopefully make a burglar, mugger or rapists not bring one to work, effectively reducing the lethality rate. A knife kills you just as dead as a gun but at least you can try to run.
I think everything I wrote is already done so by the more sensible governments.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Xant on December 15, 2015, 02:46:25 pm
If you think about it, it's the state's responsibility to move the nash equilibrium away being armed. Harsh penalties for owning, carrying or even using a gun is the way to go. Combined with effective controls it will make it a high risk to bring a gun into the game that at some point outweights the advantages it gives in certain situations.

Non-murder crimes involving firearms should be penaltized much harsher than without. This will hopefully make a burglar, mugger or rapists not bring one to work, effectively reducing the lethality rate. A knife kills you just as dead as a gun but at least you can try to run.
I think everything I wrote is already done so by the more sensible governments.
Pretty sure this is already the case everywhere. Many burglars DON'T bring a firearm with them in the US because if they get caught with one they'll get much harsher sentences.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Rhekimos on December 15, 2015, 02:51:38 pm
How do you think the reciprocity, reputation, and "meeting someone later" aspects of non-basic PDs translate into gun ownership? The basic form of PD is the most accurate analogy. When you add "gang affiliations" and "meeting someone again" (lol) it makes zero sense when you're talking about gun ownership...

How would social interactions work in real life with regard to guns? Is that a hard question?

Anyhow, the "basic" one-off prisoner's dilemma would basically be the equivalent of meeting a stranger in a dark alley in a foreign city.

Actually living in a society would be closer to hundreds or more of repeating games.

And repeating games are not exotic in game theory.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Xant on December 15, 2015, 03:05:25 pm
How would social interactions work in real life with regard to guns? Is that a hard question?

Anyhow, the "basic" one-off prisoner's dilemma would basically be the equivalent of meeting a stranger in a dark alley in a foreign city.

Actually living in a society would be closer to hundreds or more of repeating games.

And repeating games are not exotic in game theory.
What are you talking about? I bet you don't even know yourself anymore.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Rhekimos on December 15, 2015, 03:24:43 pm
What are you talking about? I bet you don't even know yourself anymore.

I thought I was discussing game theory and the prisoner's dilemma with you.

You think everyone should get a gun, and it's only rational.

I think the model woefully insufficient to map all relevant factors, especially as a one-off game.

Also, even in the one off game of prisoner's dilemma, both defecting (getting a gun) results in the non-optimal result. A society that does that would be scored as less fit than one that plays optimally, it's right there in the definition.
So I guess we all agree it would not actually be the best for everyone to have a gun?

Now, where it really gets interesting are simulations run on different starting populations of differently acting "bots" all playing a series of games of prisoner's dilemma and how the fitness of a particular behavior is related to the starting population for the simulation.
If the society is already full of guns, it's probably better to get one yourself as well.
If guns are below a certain threshold, you might get the double benefits of individual and societal fitness.

That's what these simulations repeating games of prisoner's dilemma say about it, anyhow.


Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Xant on December 15, 2015, 03:48:10 pm
You think everyone should get a gun, and it's only rational.
Do I? Well, I guess that's what I think, since you said so.

Quote
I think the model woefully insufficient to map all relevant factors, especially as a one-off game.
Obviously. It being a one-off game has nothing to do with anything, however. Joe Average isn't going to run into hundreds of encounters.

Quote
Also, even in the one off game of prisoner's dilemma, both defecting (getting a gun) results in the non-optimal result. A society that does that would be scored as less fit than one that plays optimally, it's right there in the definition.
Yes, and? If A tries to cooperate and B defects, B gets the best possible outcome. Therefore there will be defectors, therefore cooperation in vanilla PD is stupid. Humans don't think about "fitness of the society as a whole" when deciding their course of action.


Quote
If guns are below a certain threshold, you might get the double benefits of individual and societal fitness.
And defectors get quadruple the benefits, then. Evolutionary psychology deals with the subject a lot from the perspective of both game theory and biology. The checks and balances in place to stop everyone from defecting all the time are nowhere to be seen in a "gun prisoner's dilemma." And even with all those checks and balances in nature, there are whole species devoted to defecting.

Quote
That's what these simulations repeating games of prisoner's dilemma say about it, anyhow.
No, it's not. Show me these multiple simulations of gun-prisoner's-dilemma.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Rhekimos on December 15, 2015, 04:55:24 pm
Do I? Well, I guess that's what I think, since you said so.


And the rational way to act in prisoner's dilemma is that both defect, meaning both carry a gun..

No, it's not "held up as an example" of that. It's simple logic. And on top of that, it even holds up when taking human nature into consideration. It only supports my argument, so it makes no sense for you to go "yup, basic prisoner's dilemma situation" if you understood PD.

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That's the impression I got. I wrote it down so that you can confirm/deny and correct me if I'm wrong so the we might have a conversation where we actually understand each other.


Quote
Obviously. It being a one-off game has nothing to do with anything, however. Joe Average isn't going to run into hundreds of encounters.
Yes, and? If A tries to cooperate and B defects, B gets the best possible outcome. Therefore there will be defectors, therefore cooperation in vanilla PD is stupid.

Are you perhaps talking of "encounters" as fights? Dangerous situations and the like? That would be a very narrow view. But in this narrow view I would agree that strictly within a combat situation, one would probably be better off armed, if they couldn't run away or in other way avoid it and simply had to fight.
Life in a society isn't "vanilla PD" however.

Quote
Humans don't think about "fitness of the society as a whole" when deciding their course of action.

Most people do, actually. Maybe not all the time, but it certainly guides their actions. At least at some level of group benefit, and at some level of abstraction. And then there's this whole thing called politics which as an activity is dedicated to a group trying to decide what would be the best things to do, ie. thinking about the fitness of the society as a whole. And then there's other groups doing the same and so on from the family unit to groups and clans and communities to companies to municipalities to competing countries.
Always acting on pure self-interest is kind of rare.

Quote
And defectors get quadruple the benefits, then.

Indeed, but only if they are sufficiently few.

Quote
Evolutionary psychology deals with the subject a lot from the perspective of both game theory and biology.

Yes, and an example of "always defectors" in human evolutionary history would be psychopaths. They don't follow "the rules" and so gain individual fitness, but groups with too many of them did not fare particularly well, judging from the number of occurrence.

Quote
The checks and balances in place to stop everyone from defecting all the time are nowhere to be seen in a "gun prisoner's dilemma."

There's a number of things a society can do. Laws for example. Like laws controlling guns.
And a number of things that happen to societies.

Quote
And even with all those checks and balances in nature, there are whole species devoted to defecting.

What do you mean by that? If you think no carnivore or parasite works in tandem with species-mates (society, in-group), you are quite wrong.
And just getting by is not really the optimal result, that's lowering the bar quite a bit from prisoner's dilemma.

Quote
No, it's not. Show me these multiple simulations of gun-prisoner's-dilemma.

I don't have links ready, but you're free to research them if you also found them interesting. Also I never said anything about gun-prisoner's-dilemma simulations.

The main point is, do you think it would be the best kind of society to live in where everyone would be armed?
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Butan on December 15, 2015, 05:12:30 pm
What are you talking about? I bet you don't even know yourself anymore.

I do and find you outsmarted. Are you an idiot?
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Xant on December 15, 2015, 05:18:23 pm
I do and find you outsmarted. Are you an idiot?
A retard's view on intelligence is VERY important to me.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Clockworkkiller on December 15, 2015, 08:38:41 pm
Xant, stop wasting your time, these idiots are so far gone there is zero hope for them, let them go about blindly in their lives and as such, suffer the consequences
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: pepejul on December 16, 2015, 12:41:48 am
number of shooting in schools in our noguns countries : 0

Just remember that when the next univerity college mass murder occurs in a gunlikers land...
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Asheram on December 16, 2015, 01:09:17 am
number of shooting in schools in our noguns countries : 0

Just remember that when the next univerity college mass murder occurs in a gunlikers land...
Try at least 1 in France :
March 19, 2012
Toulouse, France  Mohammed Merah, a French man of Algerian descent, shot and killed a rabbi, two of his children, and another child at a Jewish school. Police believe he had earlier shot and killed three paratroopers. Merah said he was a member of Al Qaeda and that he was seeking revenge for the killing of Palestinian children

And 1 in Scotland:
March 13, 1996
Dunblane, Scotland  16 children and one teacher killed at Dunblane Primary School by Thomas Hamilton, who then killed himself. 10 others wounded in attack
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Xant on December 16, 2015, 01:20:49 am
number of shooting in schools in our noguns countries : 0

Just remember that when the next univerity college mass murder occurs in a gunlikers land...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3321026/Fresh-tragedy-France-12-year-old-boy-shot-dead-13-year-old-classmate-school-bus.html
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: pepejul on December 16, 2015, 01:31:35 am
Xant... thank you for proving again that guns are dangerous. In bus it was an accident because the boy took a gun from his dad and play with it to show it to his friend... bang he's dead.

Gib moar guns to pple, you will have more deads by accident.

Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: pepejul on December 16, 2015, 01:32:48 am
Asheram. Mohamed merah is good exemple. What is you advice to stop the next one ? Give weapons to school children ? Guns to teachers ? Tell me...
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Xant on December 16, 2015, 01:37:14 am
Asheram. Mohamed merah is good exemple. What is you advice to stop the next one ? Give weapons to school children ? Guns to teachers ? Tell me...
Quote
There is a very important lesson about being tough to be taken from shooting sprees. And that is a shooting spree - where someone comes in and shoots many people - ONLY happens when one side has the guns. Everyone remembers the Columbine High School tragedy. What few people remember is a year after I graduated from my high school, four guys came on campus drew guns and opened fire. The campus police, members of the faculty and even some students drew their guns and returned fire. The four original shooters turned and ran. Total body count....zero.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Asheram on December 16, 2015, 01:51:55 am
Asheram. Mohamed merah is good exemple. What is you advice to stop the next one ? Give weapons to school children ? Guns to teachers ? Tell me...
You said 0 it wasn't zero. And yes maybe some of the teachers should be required to train and carry firearms. You come off as self righteous and wanting to argue a topic that wont be solved in this forum so I am stopping here.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Tibe on December 16, 2015, 09:26:38 am
Xant, stop wasting your time, these idiots are so far gone there is zero hope for them, let them go about blindly in their lives and as such, suffer the consequences

The consequences of having a policeforce who is calm and not always on the edge, criminals armed with knives and not firearms and no national tragedies in a form of massmurders? Oh man. Why do I even still live in this shitty place without a gun?
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: pepejul on December 16, 2015, 05:15:46 pm
Genious ! Give them guns !

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/dec/14/french-teacher-stabbed-isis-sympathizer-fab/

And pay for training with new taxes !

GENIOUS !!!!

XANT PRESIDENT !!!!  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: AntiBlitz on December 16, 2015, 05:22:13 pm
Genious ! Give them guns !

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/dec/14/french-teacher-stabbed-isis-sympathizer-fab/

And pay for training with new taxes !

GENIOUS !!!!

XANT PRESIDENT !!!!  :rolleyes:

you didnt even read what the fuck  you posted did you?  Pepe, im surprised youve gone this long in this thread without receiving an official stfu, so here it is from me.

PepeJul, please shut the fuck up, youre an idiot, it was probably you who stabbed yourself you "cuck".
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Angantyr on December 16, 2015, 05:23:05 pm
I'm very glad to be fortunate enough to live in a place where there's hardly any guns/gun violence, but if I lived in a violent and armed society like in the US I would definitely be carrying, and I would insist my family did so aswell, and I would train regularly at a gun range.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: pepejul on December 16, 2015, 05:26:36 pm
you didnt even read what the fuck  you posted did you?  Pepe, im surprised youve gone this long in this thread without receiving an official stfu, so here it is from me.

PepeJul, please shut the fuck up, youre an idiot, it was probably you who stabbed yourself you "cuck".

thank you for good argumentation ; just insulting pple. So smart. So brave. So usefull in debate. You wins.

The teacher stabbed himself with cutter and cisal. Imagine if he got a gun instead ? Give guns to pple = give guns to some mad, crazy, psychos,etc... It is more dangerous !


Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Christo on December 16, 2015, 05:37:40 pm
Genious ! Give them guns !

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/dec/14/french-teacher-stabbed-isis-sympathizer-fab/

And pay for training with new taxes !

GENIOUS !!!!

XANT PRESIDENT !!!!  :rolleyes:

Actually giving a gun so people like these can commit a fast suicide would be beneficial to all of us.
Why the fuck would you fabricate something like this. Fucking attentionwhoring cunt
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: AntiBlitz on December 16, 2015, 06:15:47 pm
thank you for good argumentation ; just insulting pple. So smart. So brave. So usefull in debate. You wins.

The teacher stabbed himself with cutter and cisal. Imagine if he got a gun instead ? Give guns to pple = give guns to some mad, crazy, psychos,etc... It is more dangerous !
no, fuck off, youve been brain dead for like 10 pages, youve made zero conscious effort to put together an argument, or maybe you have and i just cant tell.  The only insulting posts that have been made have been every post youve made in this thread.

I dont even understand how what you just said correlates to a school teacher cutting himself with a pair of scissors, or how any of this has something to do with a gun debate.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Tibe on December 16, 2015, 06:23:24 pm
He can still claim its languagebarrier.  :lol:
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Xant on December 16, 2015, 06:27:24 pm
Genious ! Give them guns !

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/dec/14/french-teacher-stabbed-isis-sympathizer-fab/

And pay for training with new taxes !

GENIOUS !!!!

XANT PRESIDENT !!!!  :rolleyes:
What does that have to do with guns?
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: [ptx] on December 16, 2015, 06:27:29 pm
inb4 his kids start crying over you being mean to him and it's all your fault.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Xant on December 16, 2015, 06:28:01 pm
inb4 his kids start crying over you being mean to him and it's all your fault.
Yes, let's not forget Pepe is the retard who shows his kid minus votes on his posts to make him cry, then blames the cRPG forums for it.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: pepejul on December 16, 2015, 09:19:36 pm
uh uh uh you so smart and accurate !

Let me explain : some teachers are crazy cunts with mad behaviour (many pple are insane even in Education system, I know it very well). You want to give guns to teachers (all teachers ?) to "protect" school, it is your idea right ?

The price of protection against hypothetical aggression by armed man (Mohamed Merah exemple : 1 in history) is "give gun to thousands of mad teachers"... you think it will be better for security ? Seriously ?

if you want to train teachers with gun...who will pay guns and ammo ? Who will train them ?  Who will pay training lessons ?

Where will you put the weapons ? In schoolroom ? in teacher's poket ?

Instead of saying I m stupid, just explain us how you can do this amazing idea : "for better society, give weapon to pple".

I just can't imagine somone with this idea in 21th century... it is so primitive !
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Asheram on December 16, 2015, 09:28:43 pm
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Teeth on December 16, 2015, 10:26:55 pm
Does anyone have any data on the benefits of civilian-owned guns? I am genuinely curious, I just rarely seem to read headlines like "Upstanding CCW citizens kill terrorists". Even smaller scale like robbery or home-invasion, is there any data on armed victims affecting the outcome in a positive way?
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Xant on December 16, 2015, 10:35:24 pm
Does anyone have any data on the benefits of civilian-owned guns? I am genuinely curious, I just rarely seem to read headlines like "Upstanding CCW citizens kill terrorists". Even smaller scale like robbery or home-invasion, is there any data on armed victims affecting the outcome in a positive way?
http://www.gunfacts.info/gun-control-myths/concealed-carry/
http://marquettewire.org/3806651/tribune/tribune-news/concealed-carry-prevents-more-crime-than-it-creates-study-says/

Additionally in the latest Muslim shooting in the US, a CCW guy from a building opposite where the shootout happened went out to make sure no one came to the place where he worked, the terrorists saw him, and they turned around.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Paul on December 17, 2015, 10:50:29 am
gunfacts.info
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Tibe on December 17, 2015, 05:34:57 pm
gunfacts.info

Yeah, its basically similar to this: :lol:

Quote
Hei Tibe. Why exactly are the democrats superior? Gimme some logical unbiased neutral info about it?

Worry not my child. I know a perfect place to get that type of info.
https://www.democrats.org/

Or repeat with republicans. Whatever floats your goat.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Xant on December 17, 2015, 05:57:25 pm
Yeah, wouldn't want to look at a site that's collected all the information in one place. Especially since they have no referenced sources or anything... no... wait...

Quote
Notes:

An examination of the effects of concealed weapons laws and assault weapons bans on state-level murder rates, Applied Economics Letters, Vol 21, No. 4 ↩
Florida Department of Justice, 1998 ↩
Shall issue: the new wave of concealed handgun permit laws, Cramer C and Kopel D. Golden CO: Independence Institute Issue Paper. October 17, 1994 ↩
Some criminologist believe measuring first year change is shortsighted as it takes more than a year for permits to be issued, reach critical quantities, and for the criminally minded to recognize the new situation and avoid violent confrontations. ↩
Bureau of Justice Statistics, online database, reviewing Texas and U.S. violent crime from 1995-2001. ↩
Crime, Deterrence, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns, Lott, John R., and Mustard, David B. J. of Legal Studies, vol.26, n.1, pp.1-68 (Jan. 1997): This study involved county level crime statistics from all 3,054 counties in the U.S., from 1977 through 1992. During this time ten states adopted right-to-carry laws. It is estimated that if all states had adopted right-to-carry laws, in 1992 the US would have avoided 1,400 murders, 4,200 rapes, 12,000 robberies, 60,000 aggravated assaults – and saved over $5,000,000,000 in victim expenses. ↩
FBI, Uniform Crime Reports, 2004 – excludes Hawaii and Rhode Island – small populations and geographic isolation create other determinants to violent crime. ↩
Federal legislation created a national “gun-free schools” policy, effective in 1996.  Some criminologists maintain this created a new dynamic, encouraging mass murder on campus. Thus, after 1995 it is increasingly difficult to make comparisons based on the effects of CCWs and mass shootings. ↩
Multiple Victim Public Shootings, Bombings, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handgun Laws: Contrasting Private and Public Law Enforcement, John Lott and William Landes, Law School of the University of Chicago, Law & Economics Working Paper No. 73 ↩
Law Enforcement Officers Killed by Concealed Handgun Permit Holders, VPC, December 13, 2009 ↩
Reports were as received. No selection or filtering process was used. ↩
Violent crime rates are from inception of “shall issue” CCW through 2006, the most recent period available through the Bureau of Justice Statistics online database. ↩
October 1987 through Jan 2008 ↩
1995 – no follow-up data available at time of collection ↩
1994 through 2007 ↩
1995 through 2004 ↩
2002 through 2006 ↩
In 2005 and 2006, Minnesota had an abnormal spike in robbery and aggravated assaults. The first three years of CCW in Minnesota saw violent crime rates being roughly stable and the problem has somewhat abated since then. ↩
2001 through 2007 ↩
Texas Department of Public Safety and the U.S. Census Bureau, reported in San Antonio Express-News, September, 2000 ↩
An Analysis of the Arrest Rate of Texas Concealed Carry Handgun License Holders as Compared to the Arrest Rate of the Entire Texas Population, William E. Sturdevant, PE, September 11, 1999 ↩
Nina Butts, Texans Against Gun Violence, Dallas Morning News, August 10, 2000 ↩
John Holmes, Harris County [Houston, TX] District Attorney, In Session: Handgun Law’s First Year Belies Fears of ‘Blood in the Streets,” Texas Lawyer, December 9, 1996 ↩
Concealed Weapons/Firearms License Statistical Report, Florida Department of State, 1998 – Florida Game and Fresh Water Fish Commission, December 1998 ↩
Gun Crimes Drop at Virginia Bars And Restaurants, Richmond Times-Dispatch, August 14, 2011, reporting data from the Virginia State Police ↩
Basis For Revocation Or Suspension Of Texas Concealed, Texas Department of Public Safety, December 1, 1998 ↩
Texas Department of Corrections data, 1996-2000, compiled by the Texas State Rifle Association, www.tsra.com ↩
These are year 2000 records. As of 2014, the number of Texas concealed carry license holders was 825,957. ↩
An Analysis Of The Arrest Rate Of Texas Concealed Handgun License Holders As Compared To The Arrest Rate Of The Entire Texas Population, William E. Sturdevant, PE, September 11, 1999 ↩
Glenn White, President of the Dallas Police Association, Dallas Morning News, December 23, 1997 ↩
Colonel James Wilson, Director Texas Department of Public Safety, Dallas Morning News, June 11, 1996 ↩
Multiple Victim Public Shootings, Bombings, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handgun Laws: Contrasting Private and Public Law Enforcement,  Lott John R., Landes William M.; University of Chicago — Covers years 1977 to 1995 ↩
Gun Policy & Law Enforcement, PoliceOne, arch 2013 ↩
Armed Resistance to Crime: The Prevalence and Nature of Self-Defense with a Gun, by Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz, in The Journal of Criminal Law & Criminology, Northwestern University School of Law, Volume 86, Number 1, Fall, 1995 ↩
Criminal Victimization in the United States, U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics, 1993 ↩
Kleck and Gertz, National Self Defense Survey, 1995 ↩
Majority Say More Concealed Weapons Would Make U.S. Safer, Gallup Poll, October, 2015 ↩
Gun Policy & Law Enforcement, PoliceOne, arch 2013 ↩
National Association of Chiefs of Police, 17th Annual National Survey of Police Chiefs & Sheriffs, 2005 ↩
Glenn White, president, Dallas Police Association, Dallas Morning News, December 23, 1997 ↩
John B. Holmes, Harris County Texas district attorney, Dallas Morning News, December 23, 1997 ↩
Jerry Kilgore, Virginia Public Safety Secretary, Fredricksburg Freelance Star, February 2, 1996 ↩
Chief Dennis Nowicki, Charlotte-Mecklenburg North Carolina Police, News and Observer, November 24, 1997 ↩
Lt. William Burgess of the Calhoun County (Michigan) Sheriff Department, Battle Creek Enquirer, January 28, 2005 ↩
Detroit Police Chief James Craig, Detroit police chief: Legal gun owners can deter crime, The Detroit News, January 3, 2014 ↩

And let's ignore the second link that discusses a study done on the subject. Yeah, good plan, let's focus on the ostensibly easier target of the first link because who would want to get gun facts from a site that deals with facts about guns? Ridiculous, I know. I get all my gun facts from Toys R Us, they have the best gun facts.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Tibe on December 17, 2015, 07:01:59 pm
What perfect place to learn about the benefits of communism over everything else, that the North Korean website. Im pretty sure they could have quite solid refered sources to back it up, if they felt they needed them.

I actually looked up a particular source in it about a poll where the police officers were questioned about it. Because I figured who to best ask about gunlaws than the guys who are getting shot because of it. The overall conclusion was that absolutely nothing will help anything. Kinda depressing tbh.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Xant on December 17, 2015, 07:10:17 pm
If you don't realize the difference between political parties and referenced facts about guns, you're beyond help.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Tibe on December 17, 2015, 07:50:03 pm
What made you think I claimed they were the same? It was just an example. Diehard supporters of basically whatever can also claim whatever they like. And with the right tone you can just about make everything sound logical and factdriven. Even the hollow earth conspiracy. That was my point. Nothing really political party related. Im pretty sure you realised that yourself, but took the shot to discredit anyway, if you didnt you are beond help.

For example, the poll I talked about. Didnt really state where were these police officers stationed. The boring villagetowns next to Canada or the fucking Detroit? The difference is massive as hell.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Xant on December 17, 2015, 08:20:50 pm
What made you think I claimed they were the same? It was just an example. Diehard supporters of basically whatever can also claim whatever they like. And with the right tone you can just about make everything sound logical and factdriven. Even the hollow earth conspiracy. That was my point. Nothing really political party related. Im pretty sure you realised that yourself, but took the shot to discredit anyway, if you didnt you are beond help.

For example, the poll I talked about. Didnt really state where were these police officers stationed. The boring villagetowns next to Canada or the fucking Detroit? The difference is massive as hell.
Because the example is retarded seeing as they have nothing in common?

You're reaching with your crap about the poll. "Oh yeah, it says 91% of the 15000 cops asked say X, but it doesn't tell me all the data about the cops, like their place of birth!!!!!!!!!" Getting desperate? And if you weren't retarded, you could easily google it and find out the info you need....
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Tibe on December 17, 2015, 08:33:07 pm
I think I gave the reason why that fact is important well enough. Wasnt even desperation. Just common sense. And calm down son. You are typing so fast your exclamation mark got stuck.

Well, you reached your max of 2(or 3)posts, didnt really count, to convince me. Seeing as you continue to be an arrogant cunt once more towards the poster itself instead of the post, I think we should once again be done for a while. You cant really say im a shit loser who just out of desperation spews bullshit(sometimes rarely, mostly not), cause I have legit admitted when im wrong or when another poster has convinced me. When have you ever in all these years claimed that you have been in the wrong? Cant even bring up 1 case in those 10k amount worth of posts? Oh how sad. Whose the shit loser now? Who are you even trying to convince Xant?  :D We all know your shit, we arent new to this forum anymore.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Clockworkkiller on December 17, 2015, 08:36:37 pm
Does anyone have any data on the benefits of civilian-owned guns? I am genuinely curious, I just rarely seem to read headlines like "Upstanding CCW citizens kill terrorists". Even smaller scale like robbery or home-invasion, is there any data on armed victims affecting the outcome in a positive way?

thats because the media is very much liberal controlled here, for instance how news of cops shooting lil dindu nuffins go national, while no one reports the black on black violence

dont trust any of the america news media, not even so called "entertainment" media as that is nothing but left wing brainwashing, just look at the acts on comedy central

http://controversialtimes.com/issues/constitutional-rights/12-times-mass-shootings-were-stopped-by-good-guys-with-guns/ (http://controversialtimes.com/issues/constitutional-rights/12-times-mass-shootings-were-stopped-by-good-guys-with-guns/)
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Xant on December 17, 2015, 08:38:21 pm
I think I gave the reason why that fact is important well enough. Wasnt even desperation. Just common sense. And calm down son. You are typing so fast your exclamation mark got stuck.

Well, you reached your max of 2(or 3)posts, didnt really count, to convince me. Seeing as you continue to be an arrogant cunt once more towards the poster itself instead of the post, I think we should once again be done for a while. You cant really say im a shit loser who just out of desperation spews bullshit(sometimes rarely, mostly not), cause I have legit admitted when im wrong or when another poster has convinced me. When have you ever in all these years claimed that you have been in the wrong? Cant even bring up 1 case in those 10k amount worth of posts? Oh how sad. Whose the shit loser now? Who are you even trying to convince Xant?  :D We all know your shit, we arent new to this forum anymore.

Yeah, gee, I wonder why I'm attacking you when you're trying to ridicule the sources instead of addressing the points -- that's called poisoning-the-well, by the way. But I'm so sorry for not remaining polite in spite of your underhanded and childish tactics... no, wait, I'm not. Don't want to be treated like you're a cunt, don't act like one.

You're trying again with "I've admitted in the past I'm wrong" defense. It made no sense before, it makes no sense now. There exists a person to whom I've admitted to being wrong; therefore everything I say the rest of the time is true and just and right, and I'd readily admit if I was wrong, see, because I've done it before. I bet you're very convinced now, since I used your own argument against you.

For the record, here's some more detail about the survey you were too fucking dumb to find out for yourself:

Quote
PoliceOne’s Gun Policy & Law Enforcement survey was conducted between March 4 and
March 13, 2013. More than 15,000 officers completed the survey, which was promoted
by PoliceOne exclusively to its 400,000 registered members, comprised of verified law
enforcement professionals. Only current, former or retired law enforcement personnel
were eligible to participate in the survey. The survey sample size was broadly distributed
by geography and rank in proportion to the U.S. law enforcement community at
large. Respondents comprised a variety of ranks from departments of all sizes, with the
majority representing departments of greater than 500 officers. Of those that took the
survey, 80 percent were current law enforcement officers and 20 percent were
former/retired law enforcement.

But of course it's easier for dumbasses to make up reasons why something "might" not be legitimate than to actually look into it themselves.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Tibe on December 17, 2015, 08:49:24 pm
More like there exists bunch of people and an undeniable fact that I can admit that im wrong.

Arguing with you isnt really even a proper argumentation anymore. You lose your shit so easly and just start shitting on the poster rather than what he/she has to say. Starting an argument with you is technically a "pls roast me" request, not a request for debate. Nobody even expects you to say anything convincing anymore. We just expect you to throw shit.

But of course it's easier for dumbasses to make up reasons why something "might" not be legitimate than to actually look into it themselves.

Now theres something remotely convincing. But I read that myself. It was at the end of the pdf. Didnt really convince me.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Xant on December 17, 2015, 08:53:38 pm
More like there exists bunch of people and an undeniable fact that I can admit that im wrong.
So there's undeniable proof you're wrong a lot. This makes you more credible how?

Quote
Arguing with you isnt really even a proper argumentation anymore. You lose your shit so easly and just start shitting on the poster rather than what he/she has to say.
Only when the other party acts retarded first.

Quote
Starting an argument with you is technically "pls roast me" request, not a request for dialog. Nobody even expects you to say anything convincing anymore. We just expect you to throw shit.
I wasn't aware you were elected the spokesperson of everyone on the cRPG forums. Or was there a survey that I'm unaware of? I sure hope the survey states where the cRPG forum dwellers are stationed. The boring villagetowns next to Canada or the fucking Detroit? The difference is massive as hell.

Quote
Now theres something remotely convincing. But I read that myself. It was at the end of the pdf. Didnt really convince me.
lmao
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Tibe on December 17, 2015, 09:01:15 pm
So there's undeniable proof you're wrong a lot. This makes you more credible how?

Theres also proof that you are unable to comprehend the fact that you are wrong. That you are someone who considers himself to be never wrong. Whats the point in arguing with a person like you any further? I'm not even gonna read your post any further than the quoted area. Cause whats the point really?
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Xant on December 17, 2015, 09:03:40 pm
Theres also proof that you are unable to comprehend the fact that you are wrong.
Wow! There's like, real life proof of that? Well, I'll be. Surely, then, you won't have any difficulties procuring said proof? I await with bated breath.


Quote
That you are someone who considers himself to be never wrong.
Nope, I'm just smart enough not to run my mouth about things I know nothing about, or if I do, I use the magic words: "I think", "I guess", "IMO."

Quote
Whats the point in arguing with a person like you any further?
You tell me, you're doing it.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Tibe on December 17, 2015, 09:06:44 pm
Nope, I'm just smart enough not to run my mouth about things I know nothing about, or if I do, I use the magic words: "I think", "I guess", "IMO."

And yet your posts are in just about every subject in this forum. Are you trying to tell me you know everything? Are you an american? Or a guncollector? If not than how can you know so much about this current subject? Like almost everything.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Xant on December 17, 2015, 09:11:18 pm
And yet your posts are in just about every subject in this forum. Are you trying to tell me you know everything? Are you an american? Or a guncollector? If not than how can you know so much about this current subject? Like almost everything.
Yep, one of the boons of my great intelligence is that I know a lot of things.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Tibe on December 17, 2015, 09:16:18 pm
Well fuck. You could have told me from the start you were God(or an android). I would have been more humble.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Sandersson Jankins on December 17, 2015, 09:59:12 pm
thats because the media is very much liberal controlled here, for instance how news of cops shooting lil dindu nuffins go national, while no one reports the black on black violence

dont trust any of the america news media, not even so called "entertainment" media as that is nothing but left wing brainwashing, just look at the acts on comedy central

http://controversialtimes.com/issues/constitutional-rights/12-times-mass-shootings-were-stopped-by-good-guys-with-guns/ (http://controversialtimes.com/issues/constitutional-rights/12-times-mass-shootings-were-stopped-by-good-guys-with-guns/)

This isn't because the media is "liberal controlled", really. That is a bumper-sticker sort of statement to make; possibly accurate to a decent degree, but far too simple and...slogan-y, you know? There's no cogent thought behind it, just a dichotomitic "DEMS DUH BAD GUYS, BOSS" mentality

Anyway, this coverage mostly happens because to the average cable news viewer, black-on-black gang-related violence is not as horrifying or shocking as one that can have more of a nasty overtone, like racially-motivated slayings. Not even saying that the overtone has to be based in reality, but it is much easier for the media to attribute this....or really, allow the ignorant sections of the public to attribute it for them.

And that shit sells far more thanc overage of simple, unfortunately monotonous drive-bys and shootings motivated by slangin' territory. I don't hold the belief that the media is actively guiding public opinion; but they are actively exploiting public opinion, functioning as an echo-chamber for the bumper-sticker types I mentioned earlier. All about the money, bruh.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: pepejul on December 17, 2015, 11:07:14 pm
Xant can't be wrong...  xant has gun uhe uhe uhe uhe uhe

Gun always right ! Gun is stronk ! uhe uhe uhe uhe uhe
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Turkhammer on December 18, 2015, 12:24:47 am
And yet your posts are in just about every subject in this forum. Are you trying to tell me you know everything? Are you an american? Or a guncollector? If not than how can you know so much about this current subject? Like almost everything.

Must be tough to live with an inferiority complex.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Xant on December 18, 2015, 12:43:40 am
Xant can't be wrong...  xant has gun uhe uhe uhe uhe uhe

Gun always right ! Gun is stronk ! uhe uhe uhe uhe uhe
Xant doesn't have any guns.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Vibe on December 18, 2015, 08:55:38 am
the jews killed dumbledore
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Spurdospera on December 18, 2015, 11:05:31 am
the jews killed dumbledore
with a gun I bet!
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Utrakil on December 18, 2015, 12:47:45 pm
Xant doesn't have any guns.
Sad to hear. You must feel very frightened and insecure. like everybody could just come and have his way with you.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Christo on December 18, 2015, 12:50:02 pm
Xant can't be wrong...  xant has gun uhe uhe uhe uhe uhe

Gun always right ! Gun is stronk ! uhe uhe uhe uhe uhe

what the fuck man
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Vibe on December 18, 2015, 01:24:46 pm
with a gun I bet!

no it was with a star wars spoiler
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Rhekimos on December 18, 2015, 02:04:35 pm
no it was with a star wars spoiler

A Star Wars spoiler you say?

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Falka on December 19, 2015, 01:44:19 am
with a gun I bet!

With a wand, actually.


That was quite poor.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Butan on December 19, 2015, 01:58:59 pm
If not than how can you know so much about this current subject? Like almost everything.


Internet + the urge to talk shit all the time on everything. You can see plenty of them all around the web.

Xant just take it to a whole new level of "intelligent" bundle of sticksry.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Xant on December 19, 2015, 03:33:33 pm
And yet, always right.
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Molly on December 19, 2015, 04:45:04 pm
And yet, always right.
*cough*
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: Christo on December 19, 2015, 06:01:51 pm
And yet, always right.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: No Germans Allowed
Post by: pepejul on December 19, 2015, 06:44:59 pm
And yet, always right.

And white, always wet...
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